help berfore someone gets hurt

[diovol]

sorry for the ****** diagram and explanation but this is what someone has done for us at a construction job im at now.... what we have are these motors that run off of 220v single phase and they wanted to add a 110v outlet right beside the motor using 1leg from the 220v and on the same breaker, everything is ran into a 6x6 junction box except the main power feed.... the 110 outlet is attached to the junction box aswell, what bugs me is the green wire that was from the 220 feed is hooked upto the 110v outlet common side and there is nothing on the ground lug. There are only 3wires being used, a black a white and a green. maybe im wrong but something seems bad about this. also he had it hooked up at first to a gfci outlet and it was tripping the outlet so he switched it for a regular outlet.

 

[rkevins]

Is it correct NO, run a wire to the ground screw on the plug from the green wire then at least you will have a earth ground. what type of wire is it ?? also you don't need to feed the 220 off the top of the 120 plug.

 

[superdel]

First and foremost, I am not answering this from a code perspective. I am answering if it will work, and is it safe (would I be willing to use it). As long as the female plug on the incoming 220 has a wire going from the plug to a ground in the box, I would think this will work and I wouldn't be afraid to use it. The best thing to do it check it all with a meter. On the incoming 220, there should be 220 between the legs and 110 from each leg to the ground terminal. If this is true, they are taking a 110 leg with black wire, feeding the outlet and going on to the female 220 plug. They are taking the other 110 leg with a white wire and running it directly through to the other leg of the female 220 plug. They are using a green wire as a neutral for your 110. Now here is the clincher. If the incoming 220 is fed out of a regular panel, the neutral bus is tied to the ground anyway, so there is nothing wrong with this circuit. Again, not speaking for code. Please check with a meter to verify. Also, someone feel free to point out if I have made a mistake in my assessment. I may have overlooked something and I certainly will admit I made a mistake, before I have something not be safe. Safety is the priority. I am strictly saying that the circuit will work as intended with a 110 outlet and the ablilty to run a 220 load safely.

 

[BillK]

Is it correct NO, run a wire to the ground screw on the plug from the green wire then at least you will have a earth ground. what type of wire is it ?? also you don't need to feed the 220 off the top of the 120 plug.

Looks to me like the green wire is the neutral so hooking it to the ground lug would not give you an earth ground and depending on how unbalanced the loads are on the two sides of the circuit it would actually make the "ground" lug "hot" The ground lug on the plug needs to go to ground, period. They should have run a 4 wire cable to do it safely.

It will probably work, but sure isnt very safe.

 

[mrb]

its not safe. equipment ground must not be used as the neutral. Metal parts can become energized. Run a 4th conductor or if its a long way pick up a little 2kva 240-120v transformer (make sure to provide proper protection and bond the neutral on the secondary). Also GFCI protection is required for the 120v circuit. The fact that the GFCI was tripping with the improper wiring shows it is doing its job. Whoever hooked this mess up is a hack and should be removed from the project before someone gets hurt.

 

[sberry]

Is this on some legit construction job? All those portable setups scare me, you never know wtf? Foodtrailers at fairs are about as bad, I should have taken a pic a bit ago, I am kind of scared to touch them.

 

[Mickey O]

I can't tell what you have going on with the drawing but many times I have run across HVAC service guys using the ground as a neutral to power up a drill or radio off a 220~240 volt disconnect (no neutral). I'm guessing this is the situation you have and it is dangerous, especially if there is a metallic conduit that is grounded or serves as a ground. They need a neutral and a ground.

 

[mrb]

Is this on some legit construction job? All those portable setups scare me, you never know wtf? Foodtrailers at fairs are about as bad, I should have taken a pic a bit ago, I am kind of scared to touch them.

food trucks are the worst. here in CA there is a huge boom of gourmet food trucks and i have seen some pretty hokey wiring on them.

 

[nehog]

The drawing doesn't have enough information. To me it appears that green is being used as one side of the 240 circuit, white is neutral, and black is the other side of the 240. MAJOR problem there, as green can ONLY be used as a ground (not neutral, but ground) and absolutely never, ever used as a current carrying conductor!

The cords, and plugs must be four pin (Line, Line, Neutral, and Ground.) The cables must be four conductor (Black, White, Green and Red.)

In short, you are right: this is a death trap waiting to spring on someone. You should make whoever is in charge aware that this setup is very hazardous and that it needs to be fixed. You should not work on it or make any changes to it: doing so puts you in a personal liability position should anyone be hurt, or any property damage happen. In short: Run, Forrest, run!

 

[Ryf]

will it work? yep, it is done it with 30 & 50amp welder extension cords/ carts fairly regularly, I wouldn't do this as a permanent wiring, I would only do this on a temporary cable you own and you take with you when you go, it will not pass code as permanent wiring, but it does give you serviceable power. with a cable your taking with you, it does not have to be wired to code, (if you cut open most welder extension cords it is usually common 8/2, 6/2 or 4/2 120v color coded wire servicing 240v)

hope this helps, I agree this isn't generally the best solution, but on some jobs its the only solution.

 

[truckn_r]

All temporary wiring must also be up to code, even if you take it with you when you are done, this includes temp lighting and everything else because it puts others at risk who are also using the power upstream.for example if the ground conductor has a break in it, and others are using metal tools wit grounded frames, then there is a shock hazard.

 

[Steevo]

Someone already got hurt.
It hurts my brain looking at that schematic.