HELP!!!!! calling all wise men

[iron dragon]

I seriously need help with something. There is a small screw in the combustion chamber of my 02 Nissan Maxima. I can explain how it got in there later (No loctite, THANKS NISSAN). Right now I am trying to think of any possible way to fish it out through the spark plug hole. It will take me hours and hours of work to remove the head. It will also cost a lot more too, and frankly I am BROKE.

I have used the following with no luck:

**Skinny telescoping magnetic pickup tool

**Big shop vac with a piece of tubing just big enough to fit through the plug hole

**Blowing compressed air into the cylinder to move the screw around to a better spot

**Claw type pickup tool

**Very strong magnet jammed into the end of a piece of tubing

Any other ideas??? I am really at a loss here. It would be such a waste of time and money to tear the whole engine apart just to remove the head. I am not very concerned about internal damage because the car ran for less than 15-20 seconds after I heard the screw enter the combustion chamber.

Any good advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, David

 

[Stuey]

While I have absolutely no idea about the exact situation you're in, I take it that there's a small screw stuck in a compartment where access is very restricted.

With the pick up tool and mag pickup tool, what went wrong? Were/are you able to reach the tool and just cannot grab ahold of it? If so, how about using the pickup tool to grab onto some blue-tack or something similar and then lower it back in? If the screw is nearby, the blue tack should be able to stick to it. BUT if this is a very convoluted area, you do run the risk of blue tack getting stuck there itself, but the material usually adheres much better to itself than to other materials.

 

[fatboy99]

I Have a strong maganet on a copper wire with a handel i got from Snap On can be bent into different position's you might be able to assemble something like that assuming the screw is attracted to a maganet
Brad

 

[redsky49]

If all of the above has failed, could the screw have become trapped by the partially closed valve? Perhaps rotating the engine by hand might help release it?
Are you certain the screw is still there? Do you have a friend with a boroscope? Can you still hear the screw rattling around when you blow air into the head?
I am guessing that you are referring to a machine screw. Is it small enough to physically be withdrawn thru the spark plug opening?
Interesting problem.
Good luck.

 

[chevelle64]

My only suggestion would be to try the same things that you already did, but with the piston at the bottom of the cylinder. Maybe you already did that, but with the piston at the bottom, you'll have more room above it to manuver any tools around. Good luck.

 

[Ray-CA]

If the screw is not magnetic, have you tried using a small amount of some type of adhesive? (Think gum on a stick)

Ray

 

[iron dragon]

Sorry I left out details I just wanted to throw the thread up quickly and get back to "fishing"

The intake manifold is off. I can see the valves. The screw is not holding them open. I can rotate the engine by hand but not past the point where the cylinder in question goes to top dead center. It stops dead in it's tracks. I am beginning to think the screw is lodged in the top of the combustion chamber. I can't get it to rattle around which reinforces this thought. I shut the car off so quickly I can't be sure if it made it all the way through and into the exhaust. I am almost to the point of reassembling the car to turn it over again.

Here is a picture of the culprit. Nissan did not put loctite on the screws in this power valve. It's like a throttle body but further down the intake track. It has something to do with varying the volume of the intake.

 

[rockwithjason]

put a small wad of duct tape on a piece of copper wire might do it. wrap a balloon around a mag pick up tool and that will help protect the cylinder wall.

 

[iron dragon]

Fatboy99
I cut the end of one magnetic pickup tool and welded it to the end of an old dipstick I had laying around. I was so proud of myself and thought that would do the trick. It bends nicely like the tool you mentioned. I can't even get a rattle.

I am positive the screw is ferrous, I have the other one to compare.

I bet it is stuck in that soft aluminum head. This sucksssssssss. 15 cent screw.

Later, David

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

More than likely your screw is now embeded in the top of your piston. If you are lucky, it may be in the head. Either way, if you were not able to get it out by all of the means you have tried, it's time to pull the head and see what is going on.

 

[redsky49]

Sorry I left out details I just wanted to throw the thread up quickly and get back to "fishing"

The intake manifold is off. I can see the valves. The screw is not holding them open. I can rotate the engine by hand but not past the point where the cylinder in question goes to top dead center. It stops dead in it's tracks. I am beginning to think the screw is lodged in the top of the combustion chamber. I can't get it to rattle around which reinforces this thought. I shut the car off so quickly I can't be sure if it made it all the way through and into the exhaust. I am almost to the point of reassembling the car to turn it over again.

If you cannot rotate the engine beyond TDC, DO NOT restart the engine! (I am assuming that you have pulled all the spark plugs )

Sorry. Time now to pull the head.

 

[iron dragon]

Maybe a picture will help. This is a V6 front wheel drive. Spark plug holes are one the far left and right. Intake ports are in the middle. I know all that info is pretty obvious, just trying to be clear. I don't want to take the head off because EVERYTHING has to come off the front of the engine before that can happen. I can do it, but lord knows I don't want to.

 

[mmg440]

You have no way of knowing what cylinder it went in if the motor was running. Intake pulses can put parts from other intake ports in ways that are hard to believe. Since you stated the motor ran for a very short time. I did RUN this means you may be looking for more then the one screw it could of been broken up into more smaller parts. Did you pull ALL your plugs out and look at them for ANY nicks or other damage indicating debris in the cylinder. Boroscopes are getting pretty common You may be able to look down all the holes and try and find pieces. I would assume good tool rental places have them by now. You may already have additional damage and Inspection with the scope may show were to try and pike the piece up as well help make a decision if the thing should be torn down before further damage is caused. From reading your further posts that you cannot turn by hand past TDC on that cylinder you are right it is probably embedded into the head and you should not start this again unless you plan on buying and installing the piston too. Do your self a favor and pull the head!

 

[fatboy99]

Iron Dragon where are you located if your near by i have a coulpe fo bore scopes and a SO video imiger
Brad

 

[iron dragon]

I am in South Carolina but thanks for the offer Fatboy99 ( I feel like a **** calling you that )

I did pull all the plugs and I can see a straight down into each cylinder. I don't see any nicks or scrapes.

I have decided to just tear the damn thing down. Might as well at this point.

And to add insult to injury, apparently discount tire didn't give back the tool for my lug nuts after they put my tires on 3 months ago.

Life really kicks you in the sack sometimes.

Later, David

 

[jay50]

Man, that *****, a screw falling into the intake due to poor design.
Wonder how often the Nissan service departments see that happen?

Were you working on the intake when it happened?

 

[iron dragon]

I am a member of the maxima.org forum. I have seen it at least three times on that board.

I wasn't working on the car at all. Had just drove home about an hour earlier, remembered a quick errand I needed to run. Jumped in the car turned the key she fired right up and then heard the sudden and loud rattle. I shut it down and began the tear down. First thing I did was pull that power valve and find out the screw was missing. After that I tore it down like you see in the pictures. Then I rotated the engine slowly by hand and found that it would stop when two of the cylinders where near TDC. That's how I narrowed it down to those two. I spent about 5 hours "fishing" with various implements. And I never did hear it rattle in either of the cylinders. It's probably jammed in the piston or the head. Lucky me.

 

[fatboy99]

I am in South Carolina but thanks for the offer Fatboy99 ( I feel like a **** calling you that )

Not to worry im ok with it ive been called a hell of a lot worse LOL

Fat boy is the mdl of harley i ride also IM FAT so it fit's two way's

Brad

 

[bmwpower]

This *****. I was hoping maybe it may have exited the head, but now that I've read it's getting stuck whole turning the engine by hand.

What about checking the exhaust valve area? I assume you can't see the exhaust valves from the intake side, right?

Take of the exhaust before you pull the head.


Ugh...this makes me cringe...sorry

 

[iron dragon]

That's a damn fine idea bmwpower. Thanks. I have to take them off to remove the heads anyways, so it's not like it will be extra work. Thank God I have the factory service manual. Step one under cylinder head removal "remove engine from vehicle". Geeezus

 

[e-tek]

I feel bad for you. That's a crummy way to have a car go out on ya.

If you're broke, why not sell the GLOCK to help pay the repairs. Bet you need a car more than you need an image.

 

[iron dragon]

That comment came across pretty bad. Thanks for kicking a man while he's down. I don't have "image" issues. If that's your opinion fine, but how about keeping it to yourself.

I have an extra kidney too why don't I sell that while I'm at it. I came here looking for advice on how to fix the car, not my finances.


Later, David

 

[A_Pmech]

Can you see the screw at all? If it is in a position where you can see it, wrap a loop of safety wire around it and yank hard.

Considering it sounds like a real PITA to tear the head off, I'd try one thing first. I'd do the "rope trick". Turn the cylinder to BDC, then fill it with 1/4" cotton clothesline rope though the spark plug hole. Turn the crankshaft with a wrench to compress the whole load against the head. Then, Pull a camshaft or two and drop the valves. Be sure to mark one or other of the valves with a permanent marker so you know which goes where. Remove the rope and allow the valves to drop into the cylinder with a small magnetic pickup tool though the valve guide. Now you should be able to see what you're doing though the intake and exhaust ports.

Reassembly is the reverse of disassembly. Fish the valves back into the guides with a magnet, perform the rope trick, reinstall the camshafts.

 

[bmwpower]

That's a damn fine idea bmwpower. Thanks. I have to take them off to remove the heads anyways, so it's not like it will be extra work. Thank God I have the factory service manual. Step one under cylinder head removal "remove engine from vehicle". Geeezus

Yea, better check it. You might get lucky. Pulling that head is not going to be fun...sorry...but true.

I always do stupid **** like not doing things in the right order and end of doing stuff I should need to do, so I just passing that along.

I feel bad for you. That's a crummy way to have a car go out on ya.

If you're broke, why not sell the GLOCK to help pay the repairs. Bet you need a car more than you need an image.

Nice. I will refrain from further comment in hopes you rethink things.

 

[RobSmith]

The engine was running and bang....By all the descriptions it sounds like the screw has been punched into the head. A bore scope will find it. The force to embed a screw into an aluminium head will have also done something to the piston. With much hope there should be nothing wrong with the bore.... Man this is ****. I wish you the best of luck with the job. It looks like a head removal. Good luck.

 

[LoneGunman]

That comment came across pretty bad. Thanks for kicking a man while he's down. I don't have "image" issues. If that's your opinion fine, but how about keeping it to yourself.

I have an extra kidney too why don't I sell that while I'm at it. I came here looking for advice on how to fix the car, not my finances.


Later, David

***** to hear about your ride. It's pretty funny what people say online huh? People could say the same thing about the amount of pics he posts of his wife.

 

[e-tek]

***** to hear about your ride. It's pretty funny what people say online huh?

I actually meant it in a somewhat helpful way. Helpful in that he could sell a few things to make some money, not spend his money on useless items (though I admit I'm thinking like a Canadian there - young American men likely don't consider a handgun a useless purchase...) and to grow up.

People could say the same thing about the amount of pics he posts of his wife.

Once again, as for the wife pics....although she's a professional model, it's her job and income and normally when people see photo's of her they act in a gentlemanly way, people HAVE commented negatively here when I've posted them. I have found there are are few guys on here that could use a refresher course in both being an adult and being a gentleman. But that's just me.

To "iron dragon" - my apolgies for making you feel as though you where "kicked when you where down". Normally a car problem doesn't drag people to the "down and out". Hope it turns around for you.

 

[Shocker]

I have an extra kidney too why don't I sell that while I'm at it. I came here looking for advice on how to fix the car, not my finances.
Later, David

Hey David. What kind of shape is that kidney in? Does it have a nice finish on it? I have been looking for a backup.

 

[JF5000]

Been in the same situtation. If the engine has not been started, we can fix this. Get some small rubber tubing that will fit into the spark plug hole and is big enough for the screw to be sucked up throuh. Get a shop vac and some pvc fittings that will fit over the shop vac hose. Throught the use of pvc fittings reduce the hose diameter down to the the size of the rubber hose. Use glue, tape or what ever to fill the cracks. Place the rubber hose in the spark plug hole, start the shop vac. Move the rubber hose around the combustion chamber to **** the screw out. Good luck!

 

[mmg440]

Been in the same situtation. If the engine has not been started, we can fix this. Get some small rubber tubing that will fit into the spark plug hole and is big enough for the screw to be sucked up throuh. Get a shop vac and some pvc fittings that will fit over the shop vac hose. Throught the use of pvc fittings reduce the hose diameter down to the the size of the rubber hose. Use glue, tape or what ever to fill the cracks. Place the rubber hose in the spark plug hole, start the shop vac. Move the rubber hose around the combustion chamber to **** the screw out. Good luck!

It hasn't been started since it fell loose in engine WHILE RUNNING. Now it won't turn over by hand. Locks up near TDC on two cylinders. Pretty much he has to pull the heads.

 

[fomocoforrester]

I think you just have to check if the screw is still in the motor using a boroscope, video tool or whatever. Imagine how you would feel if you go through all the hassle of removing the head and there is no sign of the screw.

It may be interesting to check if the screw is small enough to pass through an open valve.

There is a chance that the resistance to turning past TDC is due to a bent or open valve. If the screw momentarily held a valve open or became lodged in the seat, the piston could have impacted the valve if it is an interference motor. A cylinder leak test would check for this.

Good luck.

 

[JB740i]

***** to hear about your ride. It's pretty funny what people say online huh? People could say the same thing about the amount of pics he posts of his wife.

lol. burn.

 

[Jaguar Fan]

That sux big time. Don't forget to take lots of pics during disassembly, and take pics of where you actually find the screw -- and post a pic of what you found.

 

[Blk88GT]

I would look in there with a borescope before I'd tear it apart. I agree that it should come apart to be fixed, but it might not be worth tearing apart depending on the damage.

 

[ovilla]

Shove an oil dipstick into through the spark plug hole and then see if you can get the end of it to do a 360 turn so you can "feel" along the outside edge of the piston. I have to wonder if it got lodged along the edge of the piston (between the piston and the cylinder wall) and is now caught up on the piston rings or something. Another thought is that perhaps it was hot enough within the chamber and it caused the screw to weld itself to the cylinder wall, thus limiting the upward travel of the piston. Go to a Firestone or a muffler shop and ask one of the mechanics if they can come to your house with their scope. I bet if you offer them a little cash, you'll find at least one taker.

 

[35mastr]

Get a boroscope even if you have to rent one before you take any thing else apart. You need to know where it is before you go any further. I have taken motors apart"Many" that had small debris that you are talking about. And had been inbedded in the head without any damage and ran for years. You could see the stuff stuck to the aluminum,But it had no problems running or driving.

I am thinking that when you roll it over its getting hung up in the valve train.

Pull the exhaust manifold on that side and get some good light in there so you can get a better look.

 

[Dragster Racer]

I agree on the borescope. May save you a lot of time. A lot of times, this sort of thing doesn't do any terrible damage. Often it is burried into the head, which sounds a lot worse than it is. Often it can be removed, and the edges of the damge smoothed with abrasive. Same for marks on piston. If the damage looks like it is jeopordizing the integrity of the piston, that would worry me. But you won't find that. The biggest worry I would have is that it has damaged a seat or valve.
A leak down would be another way to figure out what you are looking for and where. If it is hung in a valve, it will be very obvious where the air is leaking from, and which cylinder is the issue. The borescope is pretty much a must though.

 

[tcianci]

You have a shot at seeing if it is stuck in an exhaust valve by taking the valve cover off. If there is something hung in an exhaust valve, you can tell because there will be excessive clearance on that valve when it is not actuated. The down side of actually finding the screw stuck in between the exhaust valve and the seat is that the piston may have whacked the valve in the open position...not good for the valve or the piston. In any event, dont start that thing if you know it wont turn over. Do your homework and determine which cylinder has the problem so at least you only have to take off one head

 

[iron dragon]

Well I finally located the correct key to remove the security lugs from the car. I just have to pull the axles and drop the engine and transaxle. I should have the engine on the stand and opened up tonight. I will post pics of the carnage. Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

I can not say enough good things about this Goodyear cordless impact gun. I was skeptical when I bought it for $70. So far it has effortlessly removed lug nuts, engine mount bolts, and most impressive the 32mm axle nuts.

 

[iron dragon]

It's all down hill from here. I have to buy some proper bolts to hang it on the engine stand, then I will get her torn down. As luck would have it I start my new job tomorrow so I will be burning the midnight oil on this beast.

Later, David

p.s. I know it's June. I'll change my calendar after I finish the car. I know one of you will notice that and call me out.