Help/Clarification w/ quote for electrical

[tiggen]

All, I just got a quote from a local electrician for installing 220v receptacles and lighting in my new (home) garage. I have a few questions and hoped I could get a little clarification.

Basically, my garage is 30x23, three bay, 9 ft ceiling. I intend to do all minor car/bike/kart maintenance in one bay. I am an amateur mechanic, who is getting older, and I just want to see what I'm working on. I will also be installing a Steevo style bench (centered) along the back wall, about 13-14' in length. Here I will do hobby type metal work mostly. Again, I am an amateur, just need to see.

I got one quote from a local electrician. He wants $350 per 220v receptacle installed. (Welder and air compressor are the only current 220 tools I have, but I want to have room for growth, so I am asking for 4 receptacles.) Is that reasonable?

He also wants $2200 to install sub panel/run power out to garage, but this price includes trenching under a brick walkway. I have found the conduit that feeds the garage from the house, so my next question is how much do you think the price would change if we use the same conduit (run is <100 ft.)? Asked another way, is $2200 a reasonable price for pulling the new wires through existing conduit and installing a sub panel in the garage (specs below)?

The quote also just says "install sub panel," without any specifics in terms of size. Basically, the air compressor will be on its own circuit, and all the other 220v receptacles will be on one circuit as it will only be me working in the garage, with only one machine on at a time. Aside from these tools and the lights I explain below, the only other electrical in the garage is a handful of wall outlets, three garage door openers, and maybe three light fixtures, all of which two 15 amp circuits currently handle.

Lastly, he quoted $250 per 4 ft LED wrap-around fixture installed (x5, one each in the middle of the 23’ length, running between and on either side of the bays) and $350 per 8 ft LED wrap-around fixture installed (over bench along back wall). He did not specify make/model/specs. I have read Platonic's posts about lighting layouts and bulbs, and the more I read, the more confused I am. However, I do know/think I want 85 CRI and 5oooK light, but do I need it to be IP rated? Is there a good reason to have/NOT have two different size bulbs/fixtures?

I am drafting an email to the electrician asking for clarification, and I'll also be getting another quote, but I thought I'd ask the brain trust here. I appreciate help with any and all parts: I know it’s a lot. I just want to make sure I'm not getting hosed on price AND getting something I’ll be happy with for the next 15-20 years.

 

[Terry D]

Prices vary from town to town. Get a few more bids. Make sure they are all bidding on the same thing. He should of speced the size of the sub. I just did a 24 x 30 garage with a 2nd floor for storage, 100 amp panel from house, about 110 ft, (2) 1" conduits for low voltage and 4-way switching from garage to house. Main floor has (9) RAB GUS LED fixtures and about (12) receptacles. (3) coach lights. It also has a covered overhang with (4) can lights and a ceiling fan. This job is right at $ 6000.00 and that did not include the trenching. Fixtures alone cost me 1000.00. They are a good quality fixture. Be sure they spec the fixture, there are **** ones out there.

 

[aandpdan]

Sounds high but we don't know where you live.

What size is the existing conduit versus the new feeder? Also, sometimes with old conduit, especially if it's metal, it's next to impossible to pull the old or new wires due to damage.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

Get THREE a bids and take the middle one....... Get a current reference and certificate of insurance on the one you select. Compare apples to oranges on the gear.

When I was an Electrical Contractor I was never the highest or the lowest when it came to bidding.

 

[u2slow]

Sounds like reasonable prices for this day and age. Costs money to run a legit business. '220v receptacle' is vague... without knowing your welder's and compressor's ampacity requirements.

If you want it done cheaper, look into doing it yourself.

 

[KenC]

I've had better results when the bidders where provide specs before bidding. Make a list of materials, requirements etc and give it to each bidder. Should get apples to apples comparisons that way. If each bidder provides there own selected fixtures and materials, there can be a large variance in the actual delivered product.

If the buyer knowledge of the requirement details, it's best to get that on the table ASAP.

 

[tiggen]

Thanks to everyone who responded. This is exactly the type of questions/advice I needed.

'220v receptacle' is vague... without knowing your welder's and compressor's ampacity requirements.

Compressor is 14.? amps and welder is 20 or 21.?

(Also, if I could do it myself, I would. I have no problem paying, just don't want somebody to quote me a ridiculous price because I have a nice house, which apparently happens a lot on my street. For example, neighbor got quoted $70k for new windows, told his wife to tell the guy $35k, and dude agreed on the spot with no argument.)

Sounds high but we don't know where you live.

What size is the existing conduit versus the new feeder? Also, sometimes with old conduit, especially if it's metal, it's next to impossible to pull the old or new wires due to damage.

I am in Atlanta, inside the perimeter.

It's plastic conduit, and either 1" or 1 1/4", if memory serves. Would likely be original to home, mid-19080's.

I've had better results when the bidders where provide specs before bidding. Make a list of materials, requirements etc and give it to each bidder. Should get apples to apples comparisons that way. If each bidder provides there own selected fixtures and materials, there can be a large variance in the actual delivered product.

If the buyer knowledge of the requirement details, it's best to get that on the table ASAP.

I'll do this to the best of my ability, but just because I found a light fixture online, does that mean that the electrician is gonna be able to order it for me? Or would it be ok to order some of the fixtures myself? Just not sure what is SOP as I have never had this kind of work done.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, The lowest bidder will use the lowest cost materials that just might meet the minimum specification.

 

[sberry]

Hi price dont mean its right or good either. Talk to them about it and see who seems sincere. That price is probably pretty good, 100 ft to a garage for a couple grand. There is a day hooking the service up if he gets right on it.
Now as to contingencies,,, Thevery best is to wir up the things you know you are going to need and have a reasonable way/place to get back to the panel to add if you need something else. I have a hot hi pressure washer runs at 240V, most people dont have one, I have a walk in cooler but besides the washer in the shop air comp and welders are the only 240 loads, everything else 120. A lot of the welding can be done 120V and even the 240 is now done 12 wire.
I can wire what ever I want so I might the way a lot of guys do is slightly over wire. I like a 10 or better on the welder, its a legal cable circuit for a buzzer and if I had the wall open might split a piece of 8 for it if I had it for free but like 10 or better 8 for the comp if you feel frisky as it would be legal if you trade up to 5 hp

 

[u2slow]

Thanks to everyone who responded. This is exactly the type of questions/advice I needed.

Compressor is 14.? amps and welder is 20 or 21.?

Similar to mine. 15A (~3hp) and 24.3A (30% duty) both work fine on #12 wire, 20A breaker, and 6-20R receptacles. Put 2 on each circuit. Nothing too spendy there.

Install heavy circuits later to match the bigger machines.

 

[KenC]

IMHO, The lowest bidder will use the lowest cost materials that just might meet the minimum specification.

That's why many commercial bids will contain brand and model of critical items.

I would do that for breakers and panel. Maybe even recepts.

 

[KenC]

Thanks to everyone who responded. This is exactly the type of questions/advice I needed.

I'll do this to the best of my ability, but just because I found a light fixture online, does that mean that the electrician is gonna be able to order it for me? Or would it be ok to order some of the fixtures myself? Just not sure what is SOP as I have never had this kind of work done.

I would spec items that are available locally. If you can't find locally, ask the electrician if he will order or would he prefer you order. Or, some will just provide a fixture allowance in the bid price.

 

[MerlinsBeard]

All, I just got a quote from a local electrician for installing 220v receptacles and lighting in my new (home) garage. I have a few questions and hoped I could get a little clarification.

Basically, my garage is 30x23, three bay, 9 ft ceiling. I intend to do all minor car/bike/kart maintenance in one bay. I am an amateur mechanic, who is getting older, and I just want to see what I'm working on. I will also be installing a Steevo style bench (centered) along the back wall, about 13-14' in length. Here I will do hobby type metal work mostly. Again, I am an amateur, just need to see.

I got one quote from a local electrician. He wants $350 per 220v receptacle installed. (Welder and air compressor are the only current 220 tools I have, but I want to have room for growth, so I am asking for 4 receptacles.) Is that reasonable?

What state is your garage in? Is your garage open studs, insulated, finished/drywalled? What's the route for power from main panel to garage? Does your county require a homeowner's license to do your own electrical work? Are you willing to study to pass the homeowner's exam and pay any license fees? When are the exams held and how long do you want to wait if you want to do it legit?

He also wants $2200 to install sub panel/run power out to garage, but this price includes trenching under a brick walkway. I have found the conduit that feeds the garage from the house, so my next question is how much do you think the price would change if we use the same conduit (run is <100 ft.)? Asked another way, is $2200 a reasonable price for pulling the new wires through existing conduit and installing a sub panel in the garage (specs below)?

The $2200 probably accounts for renting the trencher, transport, material cost and pulling cable, and the subpanel. Once you take the time into account, could be on the higher end of the bid curve, but not unreasonable. If you already have a conduit from main panel to garage though, that cost should come down.

The quote also just says "install sub panel," without any specifics in terms of size. Basically, the air compressor will be on its own circuit, and all the other 220v receptacles will be on one circuit as it will only be me working in the garage, with only one machine on at a time. Aside from these tools and the lights I explain below, the only other electrical in the garage is a handful of wall outlets, three garage door openers, and maybe three light fixtures, all of which two 15 amp circuits currently handle.

A subpanel needs to account for the amount of simultaneous load and the number of breakers (including *future* expansion). Is 60A enough, or should it go up to 90A or higher? I'd definitely ask about what cable they would pull and the amp rating at the garage subpanel. It doesn't hurt to overspec a little if there's a reasonable chance you'll use it.

Lastly, he quoted $250 per 4 ft LED wrap-around fixture installed (x5, one each in the middle of the 23’ length, running between and on either side of the bays) and $350 per 8 ft LED wrap-around fixture installed (over bench along back wall). He did not specify make/model/specs. I have read Platonic's posts about lighting layouts and bulbs, and the more I read, the more confused I am. However, I do know/think I want 85 CRI and 5oooK light, but do I need it to be IP rated? Is there a good reason to have/NOT have two different size bulbs/fixtures?

I'd for sure spec out the lighting yourself. You can see what the install cost is if you provide your own fixture. If you are computer savvy at all, you can try to use Dialux with an appropriate ies 4ft or 8ft fixture and do your own layouts, or find a similar lighting arrangement in the sticky threads.

I am drafting an email to the electrician asking for clarification, and I'll also be getting another quote, but I thought I'd ask the brain trust here. I appreciate help with any and all parts: I know it’s a lot. I just want to make sure I'm not getting hosed on price AND getting something I’ll be happy with for the next 15-20 years.

The main thing is what's your schedule? It takes time to do the research to spec out exactly what you want. If you have that, you can take your time, then send the bids out to a couple other electricians and might save a little. If you accumulate the necessary material yourself, might not save on labor cost but if there's any profit margin that they take in the materials, you could save a little that way.

 

[tiggen]

After talking it over with the father in law, looks like I will be going with two additional circuits, one 15 amp dedicated for the air compressor and one 30 amp dedicated to the other 220 receptacles.

As for the lights, I'm going with the attached (with the GJ discount), unless you guys think there is a better answer.

Electrician #2 came out for a quote yesterday and was extrememly helpful in terms of asking and answering questions, verifying that the current conduit would work, and also realizing that there would be no need for a sub-panel as my main panel still had enough room for the the two new circuits.

 

[sberry]

You cant really get all that with 2 new circuits. You need a panel and a 4 wire feed, basically a service from an existing service. There isnt really a good 15A comp circuit. Something doesnt sound right about this. How big is the pipe?

 

[PCustoms]

You should probably get a new quote for 240v outlets.

220v is outdated and won't work well for you.

 

[nadogail]

Keep asking questions and take lots of notes. If you have an Active, Reserve, or Retired Military ID Card, you can get 10% discount at many Home Depot or Lowe's stores (it costs nothing to ask for a discount).

Also you might find a good sub panel and light fixtures at an outlet store like RESTORE.

 

[sberry]

The parts are cheap. What size is the pipe? You need to get some stuff straight. What wire is being used in these proposals? What panel is proposed?

 

[alfredeneuman]

...and also realizing that there would be no need for a sub-panel as my main panel still had enough room for the the two new circuits.

Unless your State has already adopted the 2020 NEC, there can only be 1 feed to a detached garage.
(The voltage in the US is 240 not 220)

 

[u2slow]

(The voltage in the US is 240 not 220)

... yet appropriate devices are rated at 250V

 

[tiggen]

You should probably get a new quote for 240v outlets.

220v is outdated and won't work well for you.

Unless your State has already adopted the 2020 NEC, there can only be 1 feed to a detached garage.
(The voltage in the US is 240 not 220)

240, 241, whatever it takes.

Jk, I know.

Well, I don't really know, which is why I'm hiring an electrician.

You cant really get all that with 2 new circuits. You need a panel and a 4 wire feed, basically a service from an existing service. There isnt really a good 15A comp circuit. Something doesnt sound right about this. How big is the pipe?

1" pipe. Also, why won't it work? I appreciate the input, but I wonder just what it is that I am not explaining well. I'm sure you have reasons for saying this, but I have to trust the qualified electrician with a successful local business, too, right? And he's actually looked in my panel and the conduit.

As for the comp circuit, should it be 20? Motor says 14.9 amps. Will the breaker still protect the motor when it's drawing 33% more than it should?

Guys, I'm a school teacher. I have a tenuous grasp of this stuff.

 

[tiggen]

Here is the itemized invoice from the electrician. Would still love to hear what others estimate this job should cost. Again, I'm in Atlanta, GA.

• 
  CW-Circuit Wiring - 30-40 Amp Circuit Level 2.
  Install 15-20 Amp Circuit Level 2. No Access In Conduit or Major Obstacles, New Wire From Electrical Panel To Location Of Outlet Includes New Box, Outlet , Cover Plate And Circuit Breaker.

• 
  CW-Circuit Wiring - 15-20 Amp Circuit Level 2
  Install 15-20 Amp Circuit Level 2. No Access In Conduit or Major Obstacles.

• 
  SUP-Sub Panels - Install 100 Amp Sub Panel Level 2-
  Install 100 Amp Sub Panel Level 2.Up To 25 Feet Away From Main Electrical Panel.

• 
  # 4 wire and pipe

• 
  CW-Circuit Wiring - 50-60 Amp Circuit Level 2
  Install 50-60 Amp Circuit Level 2. No Access In Conduit or Major Obstacles, New Wire From Electrical Panel To Location Of Outlet Includes New Box, Outlet , Cover Plate And Circuit Breaker