Help electricians!!!!!!

[STICandy]

Just had my atlas garage pro 8000 installed. When I built the garage I put the plugs on their own circuit protected by a 15a breaker. The only thing on this circuit right now is the hoist and it pops the breaker.

I contacted atlas and they said that sometimes they suggest that you put it on a 20A breaker. Could also be a defective motor drawing too much current.

What should I do?

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[aka Larry]

According to the GSE website, you need a 30A breaker.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

I presume an Atlas Garage Pro 8000 is a two or four post lift.

What do the specs call for? 15amp? What does the data plate on the motor call for? When does the circuit pop? Immediately when you hit the switch? or does the motor run for a second or two or more and then the breaker pops?

The motor might be spiking in amps when it first starts when you hit the switch. I think you can buy a breaker that has a delay which would allow the motor to spike for a second.

Have you tried running the motor without a load?

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

According to the GSE website, you need a 30A breaker.

This is interesting. What kind of a plug does the cord for the motor have?

 

[STICandy]

I'm gonna run outside in a minute and check. The breaker blows on first start but not consistently. It may work a time or two and on the third time it'll blow

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[wyliesdiesels]

Have u tried it on a different circuit to see if the problem follows?

Post a pic of the motor nameplate.

 

[STICandy]

I presume an Atlas Garage Pro 8000 is a two or four post lift.

What do the specs call for? 15amp? What does the data plate on the motor call for? When does the circuit pop? Immediately when you hit the switch? or does the motor run for a second or two or more and then the breaker pops?

The motor might be spiking in amps when it first starts when you hit the switch. I think you can buy a breaker that has a delay which would allow the motor to spike for a second.

Have you tried running the motor without a load?

It is a four post lift 110V.

No specs on current draw

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[Richard Cranium]

what does the instructions say?

 

[aka Larry]

what does the instructions say?

Like I said earlier, the GSE website says under specifications "30A breaker".

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Not an electrician ... but ...

KW = 2.5 ... which is 2500 watts.

2500 watts/120 volts = 20.8333 amps.

Hence as another poster points out, would need a 30amp circuit (receptacle, wiring, and breaker).

Does the motor have a plug or is it direct wired? If a plug what does the plug say on it? Show us a picture. If direct wired, what gauge wire is on the pigtail. How far from the panel is the lift?

I'm looking for the Forum Sparkies to confirm my assumptions or debunk them with correct information as they return from their work day.

 

[cmanningjr]

As stated above, you need a 30 amp breaker..On 10 gauge wire..


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[STICandy]

The nameplate says 2.5Kw which means it draws 2,500 watts. That is 20.83 amps at 120v.

Oh ****. You'd think they'd mention that in their specs. I don't think it's safe to run 20A on 14-3 wire is it?

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[rlitman]

The nameplate says 2.5Kw which means it draws 2,500 watts. That is 20.83 amps at 120v.

Not quite. That's assuming 100% power factor. But that motor's probably under 0.9PF, so the current is more like 23A.

However, note that this machine is only rated with a 50% duty cycle. In some instances (like for a welder) that would allow an oversized breaker to be used, but I don't believe that is allowed on a standard NEMA 5-15 outlet, even if it is dedicated to this tool.

Back to the OP, any idea what wire gauge was run to the dedicated outlet?
edit: just saw it was 14-3. Looks like you put up your last post while I was writing mine.

14-3 is far from ideal. The voltage drop may eventually damage your motor, even if it would work on a 20A breaker. Still, I'll bet the power cord coming off the motor is only 14 gauge.

 

[grantw]

Oh ****. You'd think they'd mention that in their specs. I don't think it's safe to run 20A on 14-3 wire is it?

Nope.

run #10 for a 30A outlet. This would mean 10/2 for a single phase. 10/2 romex will come with a single black and white wire, with a bare copper grounding conductor. 10/3 will have a red wire for a second HOT leg, which it sounds like you don't need.

 

[STICandy]

You're ******* kidding me! Wtf would this be rated at 110V if it needs ******** 30 amps!!??

I can't run anymore wire in here the walls are all closed up!



And it is 14AWG cord.

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[rlitman]

I'd call the manufacturer, and see if the motor can be rewired for 240V operation (many can). If so, you could switch to a 2-pole 15A breaker, change the outlet (and the plug on the cord), and run it with no more worries without pulling new wires in the wall.

 

[grantw]

Doesn't make sense. The motor plate clearly shows 20A, maybe not continuous, but the plate has a spec for a reason. To get a usable 20A, you need to up size and figure using 80% of the breaker rating. 80% of 30A is 24A. To run a 30A breaker, you need #10 wire and a nema 5-30 or something rated for the amperage.


Is this a second hand lift? Did the old owner put a 5-15p on there and upsize the breaker!?

 

[STICandy]

I'd call the manufacturer, and see if the motor can be rewired for 240V operation (many can). If so, you could switch to a 2-pole 15A breaker, change the outlet (and the plug on the cord), and run it with no more worries without pulling new wires in the wall.

The problem is:

A) this plug is part of the plug circuit in the garage with another 8 plug on the circuit. (none of which are normally under load)

B) Breaker box is maxed out.

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[rlitman]

...To get a usable 20A, you need to up size and figure using 80% of the breaker rating...

Not at all. That derating is only for continuous use. The motor is only rated at a 50% duty cycle. You can absolutely use 100% of the breaker rating at a 50% duty cycle.

 

[STICandy]

Doesn't make sense. The motor plate clearly shows 20A, maybe not continuous, but the plate has a spec for a reason. To get a usable 20A, you need to up size and figure using 80% of the breaker rating. 80% of 30A is 24A. To run a 30A breaker, you need #10 wire and a nema 5-30 or something rated for the amperage.


Is this a second hand lift? Did the old owner put a 5-15p on there and upsize the breaker!?

Nope this is brand new from atlas equipment in Canada

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[rlitman]

The problem is:

A) this plug is part of the plug circuit in the garage with another 8 plug on the circuit. (none of which are normally under load)

B) Breaker box is maxed out.

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Oh good grief. You're trying to run a lift on a circuit shared with 8 more outlets? Yeah, that'll work out for you.

When you say breaker box is maxed out, is it full of tandem breakers? Or is a panel that doesn't accept tandem breakers? Or is it maxed out at 6 breakers without a main disconnect?

Something's gotta give.

How far is this lift from the panel? What about surface mount conduit (panduit, etc)? Something to get a 10 gauge wire to a dedicated outlet.

 

[grantw]

...circuit in the garage with another 8 plug on the circuit...

Check every outlet for back-stabbed connections. If your lift is pulling heavy amperage on a ****** back-stabbed daisy chain, you will have problems.

Here is a back-stab splice device used under high load...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

While the cord is 14 gauge it probably has a higher temp/ampacity rating such as 105* c.

That 15a circuit is too small for the lift.

Can u put in surface mount conduit?

Can your panel use tandem breakers?

U may have to put in another panel if the current one is full and not reconfigurable.

EDIT: RLITMAN was typing at the same time as me.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Check every outlet for back-stabbed connections. If your lift is pulling heavy amperage on a ****** back-stabbed daisy chain, you will have problems.

Here is a back-stab splice device used under high load...

That pic doesnt load

 

[STICandy]

Oh good grief. You're trying to run a lift on a circuit shared with 8 more outlets? Yeah, that'll work out for you.

When you say breaker box is maxed out, is it full of tandem breakers? Or is a panel that doesn't accept tandem breakers? Or is it maxed out at 6 breakers without a main disconnect?

Something's gotta give.

How far is this lift from the panel? What about surface mount conduit (panduit, etc)? Something to get a 10 gauge wire to a dedicated outlet.

When I spec'd this hoist out it said 110V and made no mention of 30A. 110V is your typical standard outlet so I didn't make the connection that I needed a seperate circuit. As stated NONE of the other plugs normally have a load,especially while the hoist is operating. They were more for light usages ie, vacuums, lights etc again not normally used while the hoist is in operation.

Check every outlet for back-stabbed connections. If your lift is pulling heavy amperage on a ****** back-stabbed daisy chain, you will have problems.

Here is a back-stab splice device used under high load...

There is no backstabbed connections. I wired the garage with the help of an electrician buddy. I don't like backstabbing.

While the cord is 14 gauge it probably has a higher temp/ampacity rating such as 105* c.

That 15a circuit is too small for the lift.

Can u put in surface mount conduit?

Can your panel use tandem breakers?

U may have to put in another panel if the current one is full and not reconfigurable.

EDIT: RLITMAN was typing at the same time as me.

You're correct. 105*

I contacted Greg Smith and equipment they told me on all their installs they tell people to install 20 or 25A breakers in the circuit that runs the hoist. He went on the say it'll draw 20-24 amps on initial start and settled back down to the mid teens. He also said they don't do wiring upgrades.

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[JohnnyK8]

STICandy is all good there is a simple quick solution with wiring. Remember many of us have had to cut our floors and repour concrete. Upping some wiring is small potatoes.

You need a 30 amp breaker minimum. Many of the 110v pumps need 30 amps. Mine did but other guys that have my lift have successfully run on 20 amp breakers on 10 gauge wire.

Ya know why we go through this **** for a lift? IT IS WORTH IT!!!!

You'll get it



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[ard]

Wait, is it a canada thing or is that a 15A plug on a unit that will draw 20+ amps??

Would seem to me to be the incorrect plug...

Not a help to OP...Are you better at (a) running Panduit or (b) patching drywall?

Im real good at (a), but would do (B) to have it done right....

 

[lakeroadster]

Oh ****. You'd think they'd mention that in their specs.

When I spec'd this hoist out it said 110V and made no mention of 30A. ....

I contacted Greg Smith and equipment they told me on all their installs they tell people to install 20 or 25A breakers in the circuit that runs the hoist. He went on the say it'll draw 20-24 amps on initial start and settled back down to the mid teens. He also said they don't do wiring upgrades.

Take that "over the phone" conversations with a grain of salt.

Says right on their specification page for the Garage Pro 8000 that a 30 amp breaker is required. http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Atlas-Garage-Pro-8-000

 

[STICandy]

Take that "over the phone" conversations with a grain of salt.

Says right on their specification page for the Garage Pro 8000 that a 30 amp breaker is required. http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Atlas-Garage-Pro-8-000

So am I assume there's a ton of dealer installed hoists running incorrect power sources?

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[grantw]

So am I assume there's a ton of dealer installed hoists running incorrect power sources?

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Or people who upsize the line breaker w/o upsizing wiring.

 

[lakeroadster]

So am I assume there's a ton of dealer installed hoists running incorrect power sources?

Not likely. If it's dealer installed they will follow the written specifications.

Was your hoist dealer installed?

Did they check the power before they left?

 

[STICandy]

Not likely. If it's dealer installed they will follow the written specifications.

Was your hoist dealer installed?

Did they check the power before they left?

Well, it was installed by a certified hoist installer. I was given their number by atlas Canada. When we first plugged the hoist in it worked with no car but popped a breaker when we put my car on it. We wrote it off to being plugged into an extension cord with a built in 13A breaker. When they left I found out the cord did indeed reach the intended plug and that's when I found the problem continued.

Also by dealer installed I'm referring to Greg smit and equipment whom I assume do their own installs.

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[ard]

So am I assume there's a ton of dealer installed hoists running incorrect power sources?

Yes, this would be my assumption.

 

[CNGsaves]

OP . . . . you just HAVE to have oscillating tool and you can cut sheetrock like butter.

Make ALL your plans ahead of time for improvements in both wiring, and the breaker panel(s) . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . .THEN . .
. . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . start CUTTING into those walls !!! . . . . .

 

[bjcouche]

Often times "dealer installed" does not include any electrical wiring that might be necessary. I did a lot of research before buying the lift that I did and I found that the installers that I talked to requested that the wiring be completed prior to them coming to install the lift. That way they can properly test it when they install the lift. I ultimately installed my lift myself, and I'm glad I did.
Based on the motor nameplate, the only safe, reliable, code compliant, solution is to run a new dedicated 10awg 30A circuit for the lift. Do you have an attic above your ceiling?
You say your breaker box is full, and that your string of 8 outlets are only for intermittent use... OK, remove the breaker feeding those outlets, and move the wire to another circuit that feeds other outlets in the area. Just don't land 2 wires on 1 breaker unless the breaker terminal is rated for that. Now that you've created an open slot, use that for your 30A single pole breaker.
Did the lift come with that plug on the end of the motor? Shame on those China lifts if it did. Just because the wires inside the motor, or any internal wiring on the lift might be 14awg, you still need to connect the lift to 10awg wiring per code. My 10,000lb Mohawk came with a 3 prong 30A twistlock prewired to the motor with 12awg SO cord and the mating receptacle was supplied in the parts bag. It required a 30A breaker (mine was 30A at 240V though) and thus from the mating receptacle to the breaker box had to be 10awg.

Brian

 

[STICandy]

Often times "dealer installed" does not include any electrical wiring that might be necessary. I did a lot of research before buying the lift that I did and I found that the installers that I talked to requested that the wiring be completed prior to them coming to install the lift. That way they can properly test it when they install the lift. I ultimately installed my lift myself, and I'm glad I did.
Based on the motor nameplate, the only safe, reliable, code compliant, solution is to run a new dedicated 10awg 30A circuit for the lift. Do you have an attic above your ceiling?
You say your breaker box is full, and that your string of 8 outlets are only for intermittent use... OK, remove the breaker feeding those outlets, and move the wire to another circuit that feeds other outlets in the area. Just don't land 2 wires on 1 breaker unless the breaker terminal is rated for that. Now that you've created an open slot, use that for your 30A single pole breaker.
Did the lift come with that plug on the end of the motor? Shame on those China lifts if it did. Just because the wires inside the motor, or any internal wiring on the lift might be 14awg, you still need to connect the lift to 10awg wiring per code. My 10,000lb Mohawk came with a 3 prong 30A twistlock prewired to the motor with 12awg SO cord and the mating receptacle was supplied in the parts bag. It required a 30A breaker (mine was 30A at 240V though) and thus from the mating receptacle to the breaker box had to be 10awg.

Brian

As you see it now is how it came. Hence why I figured a standard plug was fine. Guess I should have researched that a little more. But if that's the only plan that didn't work out in the grand scheme of things, I did alright.

So here's what I found. I don't know if any of you are north of the border but currently we are getting hit with a pretty cold spell and light snow but worst off, ice. I had put off all my fall maintenance and tire swaps until the hoist was in because I'll be damned if I'm gonna crawl on my back in the cold.

Soooooo, I realized that the 12-2 110V 20A circuit I have for my compressor was only a few feet away from the motor, so I went and got a 12 gauge 25' extension cord also rated at 20A. It indeed fixed the problem as I used the hoist multiple times and even put my wife's 7 Santa fe Xl on it (being the heaviest in the family at 3800 or 4000 lbs, I can't remember) on it without a problem.

This will work for the interim, obviously I have something else to work on over the winter.

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[Dick in Wisconsin]

Well, it was installed by a certified hoist installer. I was given their number by atlas Canada.

Also by dealer installed I'm referring to Greg smit and equipment whom I assume do their own installs.

Who "certified" this guy? A good installer would get it set up, test it without anything on the lift, and then turn to you and say "OK, drive one of your vehicles in onto the lift. I want to watch you do it and I want you to raise it by yourself."

The guy is a hack, but I think you're starting to figure that out. Any "certified hoist installer" worth his or her salt would know immediately you can't run this thing on 15amps. Even if a 15amp, 120volt motor was installed on the lift, the horsepower would be so small and it would be geared down so low it would take the better part of the morning to lift a car up.

At this point you've been short changed by Atlas twice (first in shipping a lift with an under rated, non-code compliant cord and plug and second by giving you terrible information over the phone. Then by Atlas's "certified hoist installer" for strike three.

So you plugged the Atlas installed 14 gauge cord with a 15amp rated plug into the 20amp extension cord (which is OK in and of itself). But you're going to try to pull around 20amps through that cord and plug? Think about that. When you're lifting a car check the temperature of the Atlas installed cord and plug, if they get hot, you might want to get your electrician friend back to put a new cord and plug on the motor.

You mentioned you don't like "backstabbing" outlets. How were they wired? Backwired? or did you use the screws on the sides.

Good luck! Keep us posted.

 

[erswill]

The motor rating is 2500W @ 110V.If you feed 120V into this unit it will draw more current - 24.7933A not 20.8A as stated in previous posts.

 

[aka Larry]

Says right on their specification page for the Garage Pro 8000 that a 30 amp breaker is required

Is there an echo in here?

 

[lakeroadster]

According to the GSE website, you need a 30A breaker.

Like I said earlier, the GSE website says under specifications "30A breaker".

......You need a 30 amp breaker minimum. Many of the 110v pumps need 30 amps. Mine did but other guys that have my lift have successfully run on 20 amp breakers on 10 gauge wire..

Take that "over the phone" conversations with a grain of salt.

Says right on their specification page for the Garage Pro 8000 that a 30 amp breaker is required. http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Atlas-Garage-Pro-8-000

Is there an echo in here?

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah... attention deficit disorder

Folks tend to not follow links.. a picture is worth, well, a bunch of typing and re-posting.