help finding epoxy anchors

[PoorOwner]

I need 4 "drop in" epoxy anchor to use mount a pedestal outside for grinding or vise. I don't need to quality of a lift installation kind, was thinking drill 1/2" hole and 3/8" bolt.

I have only used the redhead kind that hammer in and wedge in the concrete, they stick out of the floor I want something flush with the ground when the bolt is not installed.

I saw they have Hilti epoxy at the big box stores but I don't think that's for gluing rebars, as I don't see they sell the anchors for it.

 

[A**holes Garage]

Hilti has a wide variety of epoxy anchors, probably not sold at the big box stores.
In some cases, you can use threaded anchor rod.

 

[PoorOwner]

So I read up on the redhead wedges they have a pull out strength of 2000 lbs for a 3/8" one. That sounds like alot to me when I use 4 of them. Do epoxy anchors get even stronger than that?

 

[strutaeng]

A "drop-in" anchor does not need epoxy. They are widely used for overhead light-duty hanging applications in structural concrete.

If they are sticking out, then the hole was not drilled deep enough. Look here:

https://www.hilti.com/anchor-fasteners/flush-anchors

http://www.itwredhead.ca/product/12/multi-set-ii-drop-in-anchors

 

[driftpin]

Epoxy anchors will only work as-well as your hole prep is. I just used them to anchor a premanufactured 10' x 20' garage to a slab. I used hilti 1/2" X 5-1/2" wedge type anchors, that I bored the holes 1/8" larger, so 5/8", and used Sika Pro Select anchoring adhesive. I blew out the holes with a compressor several times while using a shop vac to capture as-much dust as I could while doing it. Prretty sure the rating was 4,000 lbs. in tension, > twice that in shear, for my spec concrete. Make sure the fastener is sunk as-low as you can go while still providing enough threads to fully-capture the tool flange and the nut/washer.

As far as the size, I think the bigger the better.

A wedge has a point of compression circumferentially where the point of contact is between the movable fastener collar, and the material in which it's anchored (the concrete). This point is fairly-narrow in the bearing area, top-to-bottom. Epoxy provides a continuous circumferential bond between the material, typically concrete of whatever PSI is poured, from the bottom of the fastener in the hole, to the top of the hole, assuming proper application and no voids to the bonding agent, a clean hole, and working at the right temperature as-called-for in the setting compound.

I am not an engineer.

https://www.hilti.com/medias/sys_ma...chnical-information-ASSET-DOC-LOC-1543385.pdf

 

[strutaeng]

Epoxy anchors will only work as-well as your hole prep is. I just used them to anchor a premanufactured 10' x 20' garage to a slab. I used hilti 1/2" X 5-1/2" wedge type anchors, that I bored the holes 1/8" larger, so 5/8", and used Sika Pro Select anchoring adhesive. I blew out the holes with a compressor several times while using a shop vac to capture as-much dust as I could while doing it. Prretty sure the rating was 4,000 lbs. Make sure the fastener is sunk as-low as you can go while still providing enough threads to fully-capture the tool flange and the nut/washer.

As far as the size, I think the bigger the better.

You used epoxy on an expansion anchor?

If you used the Kwik Bolt TZ/Kwik Bolt 3, then the hole diameter drilled is the same as the anchor diameter.

https://www.hilti.com/medias/sys_ma...chnical-information-ASSET-DOC-LOC-1543424.pdf

Everyone, please follow manufacturers' installation procedures!

 

[A**holes Garage]

You used epoxy on an expansion anchor?

If you used the Kwik Bolt TZ/Kwik Bolt 3, then the hole diameter drilled is the same as the anchor diameter.

https://www.hilti.com/medias/sys_ma...chnical-information-ASSET-DOC-LOC-1543424.pdf

Everyone, please follow manufacturers' installation procedures!

Wow, I agree and then use Sika?

 

[driftpin]

A structural engineer looked at the installation prior to the work and said it was OK, the structural inspector looked at the fasteners and the anchoring adhesive, and it passed.

 

[strutaeng]

A structural engineer looked at the installation prior to the work and said it was OK, the structural inspector looked at the fasteners and the anchoring adhesive, and it passed.

We are getting sidetracked from the OP's question. I would contact the anchor manufacturer just as a sanity check. I'm guessing perhaps you used an anchor meant for epoxy, not a wedge-type. "Epoxy" anchors (a lot of them are now epoxy-acrylic hybrids) work by bond and wedge anchors work by concrete break-out mechanisms. I'm not aware of any wedge-type anchor that can use used with epoxy.

 

[Ch3No2]

If you want to go with Epoxy just use threaded rod....my suggestion would be the tapcon type hex head bolt.....3/8" bolt dia and drill a 3/8" hole and get your 1/2" impact or ratchet.

 

[strutaeng]

I'm guessing the OP wants a drop-in because he wants to remove the pedestal and not worry about threaded rods sticking up from the floor? Otherwise any 1/4 to 3/8 diameter wedge-bolt, screw anchor or threaded rod with epoxy will work.

Good luck.

 

[matt_i]

I would make these on the lathe. Drill and tap blind bore to suit in solid round. I'd aim for 2 diameters of full thread.

Next go to the outside and using a parting tool or v-type tool, while turning between centers, put circumferential grooves in order to give the epoxy more "tooth". Could also be an external thread-form but the perpendicular grooves would be easier imo to make.

Could make from 1018, W1 drill rod (a favorite of mine for general use) or 304SS to avoid any corrosion issues.

 

[PoorOwner]

I'm guessing the OP wants a drop-in because he wants to remove the pedestal and not worry about threaded rods sticking up from the floor? Otherwise any 1/4 to 3/8 diameter wedge-bolt, screw anchor or threaded rod with epoxy will work.

Good luck.

I would prefer if I can remove it and not have the stud sticking out, if possible.

I have previously heard of people oversizing the hole and use wedge AND epoxy, only in this forum.. for something not inspected or structual maybe it's ok, but that's not how it was meant to be used. But if you can glue a threaded rod with epoxy, then wedge PLUS epoxy must be better?

This practice probably originated from people messing up the hole size due to poor quality drill or bits and needed a quick fix? a 3/8" made by my off the shelf milwaukee hammer drill seems to be bigger / sloppier than the same done by roto hammer and SDS bits (and the roto did not break a sweat doing so and much faster)

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

I need 4 "drop in" epoxy anchor to use mount a pedestal outside for grinding or vise. I don't need to quality of a lift installation kind, was thinking drill 1/2" hole and 3/8" bolt.

I have only used the redhead kind that hammer in and wedge in the concrete, they stick out of the floor I want something flush with the ground when the bolt is not installed.

I saw they have Hilti epoxy at the big box stores but I don't think that's for gluing rebars, as I don't see they sell the anchors for it.

I have used these in the past with great success and installs basically the same as a wedge-bolt... http://www.powers.com/product_06914.php

 

[Ch3No2]

Simple, Simple, Simple!
Drill a 3/8" hole in concrete and Gun Wrench in...check the torque recommended!...245 ft lbs!

 

[alberto]

I would prefer if I can remove it and not have the stud sticking out, if possible.

I have previously heard of people oversizing the hole and use wedge AND epoxy, only in this forum.. for something not inspected or structual maybe it's ok, but that's not how it was meant to be used. But if you can glue a threaded rod with epoxy, then wedge PLUS epoxy must be better?

This practice probably originated from people messing up the hole size due to poor quality drill or bits and needed a quick fix? a 3/8" made by my off the shelf milwaukee hammer drill seems to be bigger / sloppier than the same done by roto hammer and SDS bits (and the roto did not break a sweat doing so and much faster)

I agree with you that many (but not all) of the creative methods used to anchor equipment that I've read about extensively here seem to come about mostly as a result of poorly executed holes due to poor drilling method/equipment.

I recently spoke to one of the engineers at Wej-it about their anchors and I asked about some of the things that people here have done and some even advocated for doing.

Wej-it does not have any wedge type anchor that is designed to be used with epoxy, so that's a no. Drilling through the concrete and using coffee filters or a mesh to keep the epoxy in the hole is a no. Cutting the last inch of the epoxy anchor so it fits in the concrete depth available is a no.

Essentially, the only way to be assured that you are getting all of the holding power indicated by the spec sheet is to do it exactly as they instruct (no matter the type of anchor used, wedge or epoxy). If you don't feel confident you can do it that way, hire someone who has the experience and equipment to do it.

 

[A**holes Garage]

I agree with you that many (but not all) of the creative methods used to anchor equipment that I've read about extensively here seem to come about mostly as a result of poorly executed holes due to poor drilling method/equipment.

I recently spoke to one of the engineers at Wej-it about their anchors and I asked about some of the things that people here have done and some even advocated for doing.

Wej-it does not have any wedge type anchor that is designed to be used with epoxy, so that's a no. Drilling through the concrete and using coffee filters or a mesh to keep the epoxy in the hole is a no. Cutting the last inch of the epoxy anchor so it fits in the concrete depth available is a no.

Essentially, the only way to be assured that you are getting all of the holding power indicated by the spec sheet is to do it exactly as they instruct (no matter the type of anchor used, wedge or epoxy). If you don't feel confident you can do it that way, hire someone who has the experience and equipment to do it.

Amen / thread

 

[PoorOwner]

So, what I have decided because I will be hammering on the vise a bit (vibrations) I noticed wedges are not particularly good in that aspect. Also, I am going to be close to 6" from the slab and I don't want to risk cracking it. And epoxy method put no expanding strain on the slab

I decided to buy either the simpson or quikrete epoxy cartridge, drill to 5/8" hole, use the epoxy and put in a 1/2-13 rod of the correct length. Does this plan sound ok? Is going SS overkill? Can I use Zinc nut with SS rod will it also gall like SS on SS?

I found they have SS rod for a pretty good price.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbil...Stainless-Steel-Threaded-Rod-802697/204274022

 

[strutaeng]

Sounds like a good plan. Make sure to read the instructions on the epoxy about cleaning, blowing, cleaning, again, etc. They are all different per manufacturer. Also, look for a cleaning brush sized for the hole.

You didn't mention embedment into the concrete. I would probably do 3" to 4" or so.

Stainless is a good option for exterior.

 

[brownbagg]

just use a redhead drop in anchor

 

[Jlarson]

There's plenty of threaded insert epoxy anchors out there. Hilti ***-IC's, Wej-It Power-serts and MKT Fastening VMZ anchors come to mind.

They are just something you'd have to get from a construction supply or fastener supplier.

 

[PoorOwner]

Here are the 1/2 rods installed with simpson epoxy ($20), according to the specs the tension or pull out should be around 2000 lbs. I found some online calculation tightening a nut to 17 ft lbs would generate a clamping force of 2000 lbs and may start to damage the bond, but epoxy sheet say max torque is around 25 ft lbs. So I will probably just get things a little past snug and call it good.

The only minor problem is I couldn't extract every bit of the dust on the bottom of the hole because the concrete is not bone dry in this season, making the dust a bit caked up on the bottom, so I could not insert the full depth I drilled, dust taking up about 1/4" or more. I didn't want to drill through the slab being a patio slab and exposed aggregate drilling 3.5" may be cutting it close to punching a hole into the soil. I did brush hole as well as I could using the brush they sell with.

The cure time is going to be 72 hours in this cold temperature and the rain also double the cure time.