Help Framing eaves and returns

[turbosl2]

I am looking for some guidance on how to figure out the angles on these eaves and wave returns. Here are some pics of what stage I am at and some mockups I am trying. Also attached is the picture it is supposed to look like

 

[lakelandcat]

When you deck your valley will give a point of reference for your facia and sofit backer (which is upside down in your pic) easy way to find angle is to run it wild and scribe the back or your facia. If you want to cut 45s on the ends your angles will come out flush. Use the K.I.S.S. method.

 

[turbosl2]

Yes it appears i may have cut the 45s in the wrong direction. I am not sure what the angle is to bevel them to meet the hip, pic circled in red. Dont worry about how the facia board is off a little bit

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Why bevel? That's not the finished fascia, is it?

 

[lakelandcat]

sent pm

 

[6768rogues]

The outer boards on that ladder type overhang should have been longer so that they would intersect with each other at the bottom of the valley. If you don't know how to figure that out, you could have let one run wild overlength, and then put up a temporary piece to see where the other would intersect it.

 

[RocketScott]

You should probably figure out how big the scupper is going to be and make a flat spot to accommodate it.

 

[turbosl2]

I spent a few hours on it and I am making progress but it’s not perfect yet. All angles seem to be 45 but compounded. The trick is the lengths and keeping it square

 

[6768rogues]

You should probably figure out how big the scupper is going to be and make a flat spot to accommodate it.

A scupper is used to allow water to drain from a flat roof through a parapet or a gravel stop. There will be no scupper in this example.
Or a scupper is a hole in a ship's side to allow water on the deck to drain. Probably not in this example, either.

 

[doublearon98]

So from what me and my dad could make out, you need to build your eyebrow and then die your barge rafter into the eyebrow. I don't really know how to explain it better, but I can try to answer questions

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[RocketScott]

A scupper is used to allow water to drain from a flat roof through a parapet or a gravel stop. There will be no scupper in this example.

Or a scupper is a hole in a ship's side to allow water on the deck to drain. Probably not in this example, either.

Your self righteousness contributes nothing to this thread.

https://www.thespruce.com/scupper-2902139

Perhaps ‘leader’ is the proper terminology? Probably a regional thing.

Whatever it’s called, there is going to be more water coming down to that point than a small gutter can handle.

Once we establish what the water is dumping into I can provide options for framing.


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[wrenchguy]

ur valley and fly rafters are short, they should carry out and meet to give the end point of framing. valley and hip rafter cuts are the pitch x 17 on the framing square.

are the valley rafters truss or dimensional lumber? i guess u could cut a pair of short valley rafters from wall sheeting to the flys.

 

[Kaizen]

Christ! I can’t even get my single angle returns right. Good luck


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[wrenchguy]

he'll only have a gutter if he can frame something like indicated in this photo. i wouldn't do it cause its pia and the gutter ain't gonna hold it. let it fly!

 

[turbosl2]

I am not worried about the water runoff yet. Thats a problem to deal with once the roof is on.

These are all trusses
I cannot run an extension from the valley truss to the eave facia board because of how the trusses are designed there is no place to sister it in, and it sits several inchs lower then the facia where the sheeting from the 2 gables meet in the valley. It would not be a good reference point

 

[wrenchguy]

again, i guess u could cut a pair of short valley rafters from wall sheeting to the fly rafter. everything should be planeing to the top edge center joint top of the 2 valley trusses.

i should mention that hip and valley "plumb" and "seat" cuts are ur pitch x 17, in this case ur bevel cuts are 45*

 

[dave_dj1]

This may help you.
It's all about the math. As wrenchguy said, cut a pair of short valley rafters and get them held in place and bring your barge rafters out to meet it.
Maybe this one too?

 

[RocketScott]

Your fly rafters should have been longer, to come down to a point. Then a valley block put in from that point back to the sheeting.

 

[wrenchguy]

Your fly rafters should have been longer, to come down to a point. Then a valley block put in from that point back to the sheeting.

yes, this is the sequence i would use. don't forget a dryline is our friend and should been used during placement of the valley jack trusses to keep the valley trusses straight top to bottom.

 

[rburke65]

I didn’t think 6768rogues was being self righteous at all! Using improper or incorrect tr3ms only causes more confusion.... IN MY OPINION.

 

[GMCGarage]

Your self righteousness contributes nothing to this thread.

https://www.thespruce.com/scupper-2902139

Perhaps ‘leader’ is the proper terminology? Probably a regional thing.

Whatever it’s called, there is going to be more water coming down to that point than a small gutter can handle.

Once we establish what the water is dumping into I can provide options for framing.


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And folks wonder why professionals dont want to help on here anymore.

 

[RocketScott]

And folks wonder why professionals dont want to help on here anymore.

Tell me about it. I've been a framer for 20+ years.

I offer help and get a smart *** response about terminology and an OP that doesn't want to consider that there are things to plan for beyond the step he is on right now.

 

[6768rogues]

Your self righteousness contributes nothing to this thread.

https://www.thespruce.com/scupper-2902139

Perhaps ‘leader’ is the proper terminology? Probably a regional thing.

Whatever it’s called, there is going to be more water coming down to that point than a small gutter can handle.

Once we establish what the water is dumping into I can provide options for framing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not self righteous, just accurate. Look it up. How can you describe what someone should do if you do not name the components by the correct names? Inaccurate information contributes nothing to this thread.

 

[6768rogues]

Tell me about it. I've been a framer for 20+ years.

I offer help and get a smart *** response about terminology and an OP that doesn't want to consider that there are things to plan for beyond the step he is on right now.

Real professionals use the correct terminology. When I wrote documents to teach "framers" how to build to comply with updated codes, rules and regulations, I had to use the correct terminology. It is an occupational thing. It was not my intent to get anyone's ******* in a twist by being overly accurate.
To rephrase, extend the doohickey and chop it off, then bring the other board down to meet it.

 

[doublearon98]

Real professionals use the correct terminology. When I wrote documents to teach people like you how to build to comply with updated codes, rules and regulations, I had to use the correct terminology. It is an occupational thing. It was not my intent to get anyone's ******* in a twist by being overly accurate.
To rephrase, extend the doohickey and chop it off, then bring the other board down to meet it.

Especially when the link you provide proves you incorrect [emoji848]

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[wrenchguy]

To rephrase, extend the doohickey and chop it off, then bring the other board down to meet it.

??? ur chopping the doohickey off b4 bringing the other board down to know where to chop it off.

i been in homebuilding 55 years and i agree with u about how messed up how tradesman express terms. my fault is being a highshcool dropout starting off barely educated. growing with experience is what kept me employed. remember a dryline is our friend.

 

[GMCGarage]

Tell me about it. I've been a framer for 20+ years.

I offer help and get a smart *** response about terminology and an OP that doesn't want to consider that there are things to plan for beyond the step he is on right now.

I think I was agreeing with 6768rogues, using correct terminology is crucial.

 

[casmurbax]

Hi Neighbor,

would this page perhaps help you?

https://www.blocklayer.com/roof/roofeng.aspx

https://www.blocklayer.com/roof/raftereng.aspx

edit I found another... I have used blocklayer calculator before.
http://www.geocities.ws/xpf51/HVFRAMING/framing_angle_index.html

 

[RocketScott]

Real professionals use the correct terminology. When I wrote documents to teach "framers" how to build to comply with updated codes, rules and regulations, I had to use the correct terminology. It is an occupational thing. It was not my intent to get anyone's ******* in a twist by being overly accurate.
To rephrase, extend the doohickey and chop it off, then bring the other board down to meet it.

Real professionals know that terminology varies from place to place. The kicker is that you didn’t provide the correct terminology, or clarification to help the OP. I’m fine if you want to add something of value to the conversation.




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[nmk_61802]

I am not worried about the water runoff yet. Thats a problem to deal with once the roof is on.

These are all trusses
I cannot run an extension from the valley truss to the eave facia board because of how the trusses are designed there is no place to sister it in, and it sits several inchs lower then the facia where the sheeting from the 2 gables meet in the valley. It would not be a good reference point

I don't want to get into the ******* contest that has started between the two posters, however I think you are doing yourself a disservice not considering the run-off now. I would hate to see a nice looking building ruined by tacking on a make-shift system to deal with the water due to poor planning. There will be considerable water coming from each of the four corners during a 10yr storm, not to mention 100yr if you want to design for the extreme.

The person who brought this concern up has it right IMO.

Also be sure to fasten the overhang ladders securely to to gable ends. I would be concerned with the ladders sagging overtime without being tied back to the second truss.

 

[6768rogues]

I think I was agreeing with 6768rogues, using correct terminology is crucial.

Thanks, we can't fix stupid.
The following is universal and valid in almost the whole country, not regional. The International Building Code regulates building construction nearly everywhere.
International Building Code Section 202 (definitions): Scupper. An opening in a wall or parapet that allows water to drain from a roof.
Dictionary definition of scupper: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scupper

 

[wrenchguy]

Hi Neighbor,

would this page perhaps help you?

https://www.blocklayer.com/roof/roofeng.aspx

https://www.blocklayer.com/roof/raftereng.aspx

edit I found another... I have used blocklayer calculator before.
http://www.geocities.ws/xpf51/HVFRAMING/framing_angle_index.html

I'm impressed with the internet and these above links. what a miracle of computation.

here's my computer back in the day.






For you expert search experts.... is there any table to figure stairwell run openings according to run and rise? There are several variables involved and was diffucult to come up with a accurate result. Maybe a architect draftsman may have such a table.

 

[casmurbax]

wrenchguy,

I will hopefully answer your question but we are kind of hijacking turbosl2 thread.

I'm impressed with the internet and these above links. what a miracle of computation.

For you expert search experts.... is there any table to figure stairwell run openings according to run and rise? There are several variables involved and was diffucult to come up with a accurate result. Maybe a architect draftsman may have such a table.

What do you mean by the "stairwell run openings"? Are you talking about the width of the stairs?

Same website might be able to help you.

https://www.blocklayer.com/riserun.aspx

 

[dave_dj1]

Get a construction master if you are going to do any framing type stuff.
The rise will determine the number of steps, once that is known you can figure out how many treads you will need, multiply that by the width of the tread you want/need and you will have your answer.

 

[wrenchguy]

wrenchguy,

I will hopefully answer your question but we are kind of hijacking turbosl2 thread.



What do you mean by the "stairwell run openings"? Are you talking about the width of the stairs?

Same website might be able to help you.

https://www.blocklayer.com/riserun.aspx

I'm asking about the run of the stairwell opening to provide the code headroom clearance so not bust head when going down. This can only be determined if the rise and run of the stairs are known. i don,t think a computer can figure it out with like i said above the number of variables involved.

I figure stair rise and carriage run in my sleep, no need for a construction master.

maybe the c master can do it? never used 1 but would get 1 if it did.