Help, How does one make Holes

[xyster101]

I bought a back hoe and was told by you guys that the bucket holes are eggs, which they are.
What is the best ways to fix this. I don't have a lot of metal working tools but have access to a steel supply place that charges $0.60 a lbs for cut offs, so I can get new steel.

I own a 140 Hobart, grinders, normal drill bits. a $60 Kobalt hole saw kit, power drills, jig and saber saws. Access to a drill press in the wood shop I teach in.

What would one cut this thick of steel with? I don't know anyone with a plasma or torch and that is a lot of grinding wheels.

How does one make a nice hole that size?

I am fine buying some new tool/s if it will be used a fair amount in the future. Where does one acquire nice drill bits?

OR IS IT NOT WORTH FIXING THIS TIRED BUCKET AND GETTING NEW?

 

[p_mori7]

Bucket appears to be home-made. I would not put any effort into it. The geometry of a bucket is pretty important to get right so your machine digs efficiently, doesn't bind up when curling in/out, and doesn't interfere with the dipper stick on the backhoe. Good used buckets of that size are not really expensive.

 

[PugetDude]

Buy a couple of short lengths of honed heavy-wall tubing, cut the old bushings out and weld new ones in. Getting them lined up is the hardest part of the job. Since you probably don't have access to a mill that can line-bore the finished weldment a snug-fitting piece of cold rolled steel will ensure the two bushings are in line when you tack it all together- remove it before final welding or you won't get it out due to deformation. A flapper disc will clean up the inside diameter enough to get your pins in when you re-mount the bucket.

Good luck.

 

[lukedwag]

I bought a back hoe and was told by you guys that the bucket holes are eggs, which they are.
What is the best ways to fix this. I don't have a lot of metal working tools but have access to a steel supply place that charges $0.60 a lbs for cut offs, so I can get new steel.

I own a 140 Hobart, grinders, normal drill bits. a $60 Kobalt hole saw kit, power drills, jig and saber saws. Access to a drill press in the wood shop I teach in.

What would one cut this thick of steel with? I don't know anyone with a plasma or torch and that is a lot of grinding wheels.

How does one make a nice hole that size?

I am fine buying some new tool/s if it will be used a fair amount in the future. Where does one acquire nice drill bits?

OR IS IT NOT WORTH FIXING THIS TIRED BUCKET AND GETTING NEW?

What type of backhoe ? Like these guys said bushing is the easiest way. What is your intended use for the machine ?

 

[sberry]

How much are you going to run this? If its a common steel pin put a new one in and it will help a lot. This isn't that bad, I would weld them out a little and improve it a little if I couldn't live with it. You can re tru them with a hole saw. These are not terribly worn for a part time machine. I bet it works fine.

 

[BD1]

See if you can find some pipe to fit or even flat washers. Pipe might fit inside and weld it up. Washers on outside is worth a try too and weld on.
If pipe is not right size split cut off as needed and slide in .

 

[bimmer1980]

Can you show a picture of the pin in the holes so we can see how bad they are?

I recently did a job for my brother in law where I welded up some pivot holes with 7018 and then drilled new holes. This was on his commercial style Kubota mower.

The key to welding them up is to have a copper welding "spoon" to hold to the back of the hole. Then start at one side of the hole and fill it up with back and forth weld beads. Remove the copper spoon. Clean back side with grinder. Weld as necessary to fill any gaps or pin holes.

Use grinder to grind weld bead flat. Then center punch, drill a pilot hole, step up with drill bits to just undersize. Ideally you would then use a reamer, but a die grinder also can work for exact fitment to size.

Alternate to this, I would probably do this way.... Use a cut off wheel in the grinder and remove the entire mounting tabs. Use new flat stock to create new mounting points. Use a jig to clamp between the mounting tabs when you weld it back on.

I do agree with others that some DOM tube steel and new pins would be ideal, but honestly, how much are you going to use the back hoe??

Also, do check the end of the dipper stick where the bucket mounts. There should be a bushing in there. Ideally, the pivot pin is locked onto bucket so it does not spin. Then the bucket pin rotates on the bushings that are pressed into the end of the dipper stick. most pivot pins have a tab with a hole welded on the end of it. This tab is bolted to the bucket and keeps the pin into the assembly and from rotating.

 

[MagKarl]

I would get some new pins and bushings to fit. As previously suggested, use the new pin and shim up to keep both bushings aligned when you weld them in.

I have a small Kubota backhoe with a fair amount of slop in all the joints. I'm using it as justification for "needing" a lathe.

 

[sberry]

If I was worried about it would roll a flat stock or weld in a piece of pipe as a bushing. This kind of thing is different than a machine that is going o get 1000 hrs a year on it, right now it isn't doing any work, new materials would be sitting idle. It needs to be made to work, not really made new.

 

[Crusarius]

I like the sleeve option the best. I would not use pipe. Pipe is far to soft and will not last long.

What size are the pins and holes?

I am also in upstate NY and may be able to help.

 

[sberry]

You can weld them in some and true them with a saw and this method. A repair like this may not need to be 100%, take 1/2 the slop out of it and its good for a long time and maybe the life of the unit. A piece of pipe is what the originals are, those are simply holes in a mild steel plate.
If a guy is going in to the excavating biz full time then some more effort may be warranted but it takes a long time to put 100 hrs on a part time hoe and it took 1000 hrs to wear those in to that condition.
The pic is an example but don't always try to even fill it all the way in but do egged parts and reshape with a saw, do drawbars this way.

 

[sberry]

I repaired a worn bucket pin assembly a while back. The first temptation was to fix it all till it dawned on us we could simply change the pins from inch to 1 1/8 and be done in a few minutes vs a few hours.

 

[gearhead1]

Hmmmm......ok here's another idea. Not saying it is the best necessarily, just giving you options.

I'd get a copper or brass rod of the diameter and long enough to fit both holes at once. Insert the rod through both holes and have someone spin it wearing gloves while you weld the hole.

When you weld, you angle toward the bucket hole, not the rod. This will build up the egg shaped holes and take the slop out without trying to back and clean the holes and have them aligned.

Line boring would be the most accurate way.

Google home made line bore. Others have asked the same question, something there may be of interest.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/small-homemade-portable-line-boring-tool-179867/

 

[AJ.]

Buy a couple of short lengths of honed heavy-wall tubing, cut the old bushings out and weld new ones in. Getting them lined up is the hardest part of the job. Since you probably don't have access to a mill that can line-bore the finished weldment a snug-fitting piece of cold rolled steel will ensure the two bushings are in line when you tack it all together- remove it before final welding or you won't get it out due to deformation. A flapper disc will clean up the inside diameter enough to get your pins in when you re-mount the bucket.

Good luck.

When I have used this technique I either bore the bush a few thou oversize. Or the pin a few under and then cut up a coke can and wrap that around the pin to hold it snug in the bush. Fully weld it, then knock the pin out, the can will fall to pieces allowing it to come out. The bushes won't be perfect, but pretty close.

Cheers Andrew

 

[crewchief888]

i'd start with a new pin, stick it in the holes and see where the bore is egg shaped.
weld up the holes and finish off with a die grinder and a carbide burr.

if you get within 1/32" you'll never notice that amount of slop.

i used to do a LOT of excavator buckets...

 

[sberry]

If you got it to 1/4 wouldn't notice it.

 

[Griff93]

I'd use Sberry's hole saw method then weld in some thick DOM bushings. Make the thicker than the current plate if at all possible. Twice as thick should be good enough. Once you have the material and cut the size this should be a couple of hours to fix it up better than new.

 

[kkroger]

Rent a mag drill and annular cutter to drill thick stock. But yeah... bushings...

 

[sberry]

Here is what is interesting about this to me. The thing had been working to wear it out that way, reducing the hole from 1/2 oversize to 1/4 would be a 4x improvement. Why is there an opinion this has to be near liquid tight, dom tubing or reamed bushing? Even DOM isn't any less abrasive resistant. It simply fits well and a bush could be made longer than the plate but,,,, might simply cut off a piece an inch long or so as BD eluded to the use of washers and weld it on the plate.
I could torch gut a new hole close enough it wouldn't be noticeable. I remember an old timer here had me do some work and I used him on digs a couple times. all that stuff as bad or worse and still worked to dig septics 10 years after that.

 

[sberry]

Rent a mag drill and annular cutter to drill thick stock. But yeah... bushings...

Not me,,,, weld it up with a wire feed and clean the hole up, grind flush and in an hour a side would never know it had been worn. This is a **** old bucket with a great **** repair with bed frame that has been done to it and now we gonna go aerospace and rent tools and buy bushings when a little backyard welding would work great and do what it needs to while saving money.
A guy couldn't even get the rental, the tools, the materials around, plus the cash outlay while a journeyman worth a pinch of **** would have been done.

 

[sberry]

I fixed this **** for loggers too, they usually wait till the ear is ripped out. Flame cut a couple holes in a plate, cut it in to ears, burn the others off and weld them on, weld grove up in the old worn pin if it wasn't long enough to simply clad plate a new hole over.
I read the other thread, this is a nice little hoe and perfect for utility work. Not that a guy couldn't make a living with it and someone did when it was new but the thing can be 3/4 worn out and last forever.
A property owner/handyman simply runs out of projects after a bit unless he has 40 acres of stumps to dig in which case the whole bucket would need service or replacement, and this aint the tool for that anyway.

 

[bullnerd]

"we gonna go aerospace" LOL.

I blame the internet. If there was no internet, he would have fixed it already.

Berry, Its Hard to get people to think like a farmer. One of my closest friends is a 4th generation farm owner on the same land and house. I used to do ultra precision machining, you should see when we work on something together! Its hilarious.

Good luck dude...weld it up...and start digging.

 

[sberry]

Actually the 140 might work for this. scuff the rust out, just like it sits, leave it out in the sun and heat the ear a little with a torch. Start at the top and run downhill and simply build a pass out till it fit the pin. You can clamp a plate over and re tru with a hole saw, the benefit of doing something like this is that it utilizes the equipment at hand.
Now having said that I am all for buying new tools but concentrate on very generic and economical vs buying a 200$ drill bit you use once.
You need a different or additional welder or both if you do this regularly. Old ****** AC/DC buzzer but maybe even better is a multi voltage inverter and this is an item I might buy brandy new. Get a torch with full size bottles and top o line battery drill and sawzall. Find a couple 4 1/2 grinders you can live with.
Collect some clamps and when you feel inspired buy another 11R, vise grips and other clamps.
With these basics can work my way around most larger and more complicated problems. Its the same tools off the bumper of a truck and the garage for a handyman type and lets a guy start off with stuff he really uses.

 

[sberry]

I have a shitload of stuff. There are some one off problems but fewer as time goes on, get better pieces or fix what I got and reduced duty cycle means soon the day isn't filled with busted **** from other people and not doing a "lot" of any type. I painted like a madman for a couple years, now way less and glad I have the booth design I have. Heavy investment in a more specialized tool will end up parked unless you are going in to business specifically with it.
Hand tools are hard to get enough of, channelocks, 10 and 11r grips, razor knives, tape measures, glasses and gloves. I maintain 50 machines and its been 5 yrs since I go to the neighbors to use Bridgeport with all the tools sits in his hobby garage, including operator for free.
Reman starters got really good as older model junk passed away or I stock a bushing or bearing I might need etc and really know most every mgyver trick with a cut off wheel and a rotary file there is, same for drilling, don't ever use a drill press, all hand with battery drill with some assorted bits and saws and even blow some holes with a plasma on occasion.

 

[MagKarl]

I'd make bushings from a time standpoint and bore quality standpoint. I'd chop them out of tubing, torch cut the flanges, insert pins, shim with beer can strips, align, tack, double check bucket motion, weld it up. Not aerospace, basic tools. Basically make the joint and attach the bucket to it.

 

[sberry]

"we gonna go aerospace" LOL.

I blame the internet. If there was no internet, he would have fixed it already.

Berry, Its Hard to get people to think like a farmer. One of my closest friends is a 4th generation farm owner on the same land and house. I used to do ultra precision machining, you should see when we work on something together! Its hilarious.

Good luck dude...weld it up...and start digging.

My stuff is tight and am not a slob but I got no objection to making it close enough either. I understand if a guy wants to collect machine tools, that's good too. Some low cost improvement in reasonable time makes this a great project but every inch of it doesn't need to be rebuilt.
I agree about the internet and its a common thread in all my threads, the assessment is not always accurate or doesn't always apply in every case and if some is good doesn't need to be all perfect.
If a guy has no wrenches in todays world he should cheap and good and go from there and can debate about it with money in your pocket and get back to work. Same here, pour heart and soul in one spot while the rest of it is 50% is like owning a 500$ wrench set and no screwdrivers.
Taking a couple hrs and fiddling with this as a MgYver repair till it works is simple and accomplishment. Start adding collateral cost to it beyond a little wire and a grinding wheel would start to make a paid repair appealing.
2 trips to a rental store, the price of it, a cutter, sourcing some dom, cutting square, getting a bigger machine to weld it in, buy different rod or wire and still need the tools you got now and maybe more.
BTW, anyone know of a handy place to get 1 1/2 copper rod and how much it may cost? Same for some bushings?

 

[sberry]

I really don't get to practice daily cut/weld skills and did these by hand with a torch due to the fact we didn't have a plasma at hand. I see guys that do this every day and a few of them can get machine smooth and I could get a lot better than this with a couple weeks practice.

 

[Brad Beam]

Weld up the holes and line bore

 

[sberry]

I'd make bushings from a time standpoint and bore quality standpoint. I'd chop them out of tubing, torch cut the flanges, insert pins, shim with beer can strips, align, tack, double check bucket motion, weld it up. Not aerospace, basic tools. Basically make the joint and attach the bucket to it.

I have a factory one in my yard and its a Dom welded in to a plate.

 

[JoeFin]

Not me,,,, weld it up with a wire feed and clean the hole up, grind flush and in an hour a side would never know it had been worn. This is a **** old bucket with a great **** repair with bed frame that has been done to it and now we gonna go aerospace and rent tools and buy bushings when a little backyard welding would work great and do what it needs to while saving money.
A guy couldn't even get the rental, the tools, the materials around, plus the cash outlay while a journeyman worth a pinch of **** would have been done.

When are you not welding on a tractor is the question

ALL of them - and I mean ALL of THEM are going to need welding repair from time to time. Well that and some hydraulic hoses.

These are Industrial Machines or at least trying to mimic an Industrial Machine. They are powerful enough to break their self. They are not designed to be idiot proof like a Honda car. There is a certain amount of operator skill involved expected to ensure the health of the machine and a certain amount of operator skill expected to fix the machine.

One of my first jobs was setting choker behind a "Fat-Alice". Ain't nothing in the woods that can haul out logs like a Fat-Alice. But if you ain't careful you gonna be doing some welding on the Fat-Alice

Sorry if I seem to be ragging on you - but you really need a different mind set when approaching these things

 

[ctb]

So, how many undercarriages did you go through running tracks that tight?

 

[xyster101]

Wow, tough crowd here. Thanks for all the ideas and opinions. I am new to all this and this is my first tractor. I am co owning it with a friend down the street. He owns the tractor, I own the hoe. He will buy parts and I will fix parts.

Anyway, I took that advice of just throwing an old bucket back on and not worry about it for a while. I may fill the hole with some weld if it really bothers me. The levers are full of play and so is the rest of the machine. It is old and tired. Currently there is a hydraulic leak where the main pressure hose enters the valves. I get a drip every 5 seconds. Not sure if that is considered a bad leak or not. Guess I need to pull the fitting and see.

 

[VDubJoe]

Perfect plan. Enjoy it, sure beats a shovel.

 

[sberry]

Beats a shovel is right.

 

[smalltown]

Aren't those bucket teeth mounted upside down ??? (on the first posting)

 

[gahrajmahal]

I would have thought to do some measuring, look through the McMaster Carr website and order some bushings. I have no experience with the operation of or maintainance of something like this, but I do like it when something is refurbished to the best of my ability.

Strong opinions... I'll say!

 

[sberry]

As the man said, the rest of it is worn out. If he is going to rebuild it all then its worth making this piece way better but if not fix it to work.

 

[csp]

Aren't those bucket teeth mounted upside down ??? (on the first posting)

Nope, their orientation is correct.

 

[BigMike782]

Nope, their orientation is correct.

So they are orientated correctly?

 

[csp]

Glad I'm not the only one that understands that "orientated" isn't really a word.