Help Identify tool that has stumped thousands

[Toolkid91]

Hello! I volunteer at the Madden Tool Museum in Sturgeon Bay Wisconsin, and this one has had us stumped for years. We've sent it to Farm Collector, showed it in person to thousands, and I put it on reddit a few days ago for the second time and got 2,100 upvotes on r/whatisthisthing but to no avail.

It has two arms that are tensioned in both up and down resting positions, a solid steel base, army green, no markings, it appears to not be missing anything, it appears to not have any points where the tool could be connected to something. Its place of origin is unknown it was part of the collection of one of the guys who started the museum, and he doesn't remember where he got it.

Seems like the leading guess is steam bending wood but even if that would work it does not seem like a very efficient way to do it, but I really don't know. Any insight would be appreciated. Thank you! Sorry if this post is in the wrong place I created the account just to post this so I'm completely new here.

 

[sgrammel]

OBGYN related?

 

[whateg01]

The flippable arms remind me of the thing you spread a tire open on top patch it. I'm sure that's not what this is, but maybe something along those lines will lead to solving the mystery?

 

[four.cycle]

In 1969, I spent two weeks working on a sculpture in William Boetcher's class.
I titled it "Whimadiddle for Grinding Smoke".

YMMV

 

[Private Lugnutz]

We've sent it to Farm Collector, showed it in person to thousands, and I put it on reddit a few days ago for the second time and got 2,100 upvotes on r/whatisthisthing but to no avail.

This kind of shotgun or cast-a-wide-net method - hoping that someone else is going to identify it for you, is the most convenient approach, and might work. Eventually. But with tools and equipment like this, which is not only antique or older vintage, but esoteric, your odds are very low, because the use case was already probably fairly narrow and the immediate users have all aged out.

If you're going to send inquiries to experts, I would contact the Smithsonian Institution, in particular, the Museum of American History. When you go into their Contacts page, there are all kinds of choices, even a Staff Directory with enough information to narrow down your contacts topically. I would contact three or four at once, not sequentially, with a polite, well-crafted email. My experience in getting responses has been excellent. At the Institution level, there is a Research Resources section on their website. It is their outreach program for researchers of all kinds, mainly professionals, academics, etc, but including amateurs. They have a great appreciation for small "museums" of all kinds. I would also ask there.

https://www.si.edu/research-resources

The Smithsonian Magazine has a Curator's Corner, similar to the Research Resources, like backdoor access to curators. I would also ask there.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/category/curators-corner/

In the meantime, you can also do your own research. Google Books is a terrific resource, if you're not already aware of it. Without a company name, brand name, or patent number or date you're going to have to take the long road, but it can be done. Search for topical (agricultural, forestry, etc) trade magazines and general agricultural or forestry oriented hardware catalogs between 1900 and 1950 and just start paging.

Good luck.

 

[esben57]

This kind of shotgun or cast-a-wide-net method - hoping that someone else is going to identify it for you, is the most convenient approach, and might work. Eventually. But with tools and equipment like this, which is not only antique or older vintage, but esoteric, your odds are very low, because the use case was already probably fairly narrow and the immediate users have all aged out.

If you're going to send inquiries to experts, I would contact the Smithsonian Institution, in particular, the Museum of American History. When you go into their Contacts page, there are all kinds of choices, even a Staff Directory with enough information to narrow down your contacts topically. I would contact three or four at once, not sequentially, with a polite, well-crafted email. My experience in getting responses has been excellent. At the Institution level, there is a Research Resources section on their website. It is their outreach program for researchers of all kinds, mainly professionals, academics, etc, but including amateurs. They have a great appreciation for small "museums" of all kinds. I would also ask there.

https://www.si.edu/research-resources

The Smithsonian Magazine has a Curator's Corner, similar to the Research Resources, like backdoor access to curators. I would also ask there.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/category/curators-corner/

In the meantime, you can also do your own research. Google Books is a terrific resource, if you're not already aware of it. Without a company name, brand name, or patent number or date you're going to have to take the long road, but it can be done. Search for topical (agricultural, forestry, etc) trade magazines and general agricultural or forestry oriented hardware catalogs between 1900 and 1950 and just start paging.

Good luck.

Lugz, is that a long winded but polite way of saying 'Take that thing an get out, and the horse you rode in on!'

No offence taken.

To me it looks like a clamp for a 90 degree piece, a one off jig. Unique.

 

[cgrutt]

Could it have been mounted upside down, or possibly sideways on a wall? Looks like some sort of clamp to me possibly to hold a square column together for glue-up or maybe a bundle of pipes or something for packaging. Just a wild guess... good luck!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Lugz, is that a long winded but polite way of saying 'Take that thing an get out, and the horse you rode in on!'

Not at all. Not sure how or why anyone one could interpret me taking the time to offer advice about how to contact the Smithsonian, with links, and a self-research method and resource I myself rely on in similar situations as a shove off.

 

[cgrutt]

Anpther thought.... How wide is it between the hoops and inside frame? Are they both equal distance? Is a common measurement, say 6" or maybe 6-1/2"? Maybe it was used to bundle a stack of something like hardwood flooring or lath strips? Perhaps used in pairs or more?

 

[Hohn]

Fascinating, I wish I was clever enough to know.

 

[esben57]

Not at all. Not sure how or why anyone one could interpret me taking the time to offer advice about how to contact the Smithsonian, with links, and a self-research method and resource I myself rely on in similar situations as a shove off.

Just a bit of humour, never considered being offensive.

 

[larry_g]

When I started working the plant I worked at had capabilities of making integrated circuits to the final product including ready to sell products. That said we made most all the tooling and machines to manufacture our products. What I see there is a specific in house made fixture for some specific use that has no use outside of that.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[RTM]

Do these two things separate from the arms they are sitting on?

Or

Do the two “hoops” attached to them swing up? If so, I’d go with the steam bending idea.

Take a piece of warm wood, put it under the hoops, let the pressure pull / hold them down while it cools.



Hoops



Of course, I have no ideA what they could bend, seems too steep for a canoe part. Maybe something less refined, like making protective corners for pallet loads. Maybe the prow of a small fishing / hunting boat?

And 95% home or shop made item, not a factory produced tool.

 

[rooster59]

WAG, bending steamed wood for snowshoes or canoes.

 

[FJ 432]

Sheep castration stand.

 

[rlitman]

...Seems like the leading guess is steam bending wood...

The only part about that that makes sense to me is that it looks like it holds something as a form. But the use of springs and metal contact surfaces just doesn't add up. Steam bending jigs use wood, because you don't want to dent the hot wood, and they use wedges and clamps, because springs don't give the force advantage needed for the job (wood needs to be over-bent and then firmly held while still hot, not allowed to creep under spring tension as it cools). So, I'm positive it's not that.

My first thought was it's some sort of weld positioning or assembly jig, but those over-center mechanisms have me stumped. The levers are mounted to cradles that are attached to the topside of the "Mario goomba" frame. So they can't hold anything flat at 90 degrees unless it's so short they don't do anything, since those attachments (and their rivets too) are in the way. Yet those slots make it clear it was intended to allow the stirrups to be used in the "trans" orientation, so I'm pretty sure these are true over-center mechanisms, and not just third class levers.

So we have two over-center switch mechanisms 90 degrees apart. Form following function makes this some sort of interlock?

 

[MAD]

I could see it used to bend the wood banding you see on the outside of some old chests/trunks. Or maybe just a corner clamp/jig with spring loaded hold-downs for changing out stock fast for repeated production use.

 

[Farmer J.]

Not a saw set?

 

[sgrammel]

Sheep castration stand.

 

[Beerhippie]

@Toolkid91: You do realize that you're now obligated to give us a full museum tour, right?

I'm sure that's in the rules somewhere....

 

[Blue Chips]

@Toolkid91, if you haven't already contacted them, you might want to try the Davistown Museum. They have a wealth of knowledge about antique tools, especially 18th- and 19th-century tools.

https://davistown.mainememory.net/page/2893/display.html

 

[rjn2649]

To me it looks like a clamp for a 90 degree piece, a one off jig. Unique.

That was my first thought, as well. I worked for a small automation shop 30 years ago. We did LOTS of fixture type stuff.

 

[Toolkid91]

@Toolkid91: You do realize that you're now obligated to give us a full museum tour, right?

I'm sure that's in the rules somewhere....

The most unique thing about the museum is there isn't and signs on anything. If you come in, we will take you around for a good while and have some stories to go with things. If you're ever in Door County stop by. We are open every Thursday its warm out and for festivals.

 

[Toolkid91]

Do these two things separate from the arms they are sitting on?

Or

Do the two “hoops” attached to them swing up? If so, I’d go with the steam bending idea.

Take a piece of warm wood, put it under the hoops, let the pressure pull / hold them down while it cools.



Hoops



Of course, I have no ideA what they could bend, seems too steep for a canoe part. Maybe something less refined, like making protective corners for pallet loads. Maybe the prow of a small fishing / hunting boat?

And 95% home or shop made item, not a factory produced tool.

The only part of it that moves are the two arms up and down with the springs. Thanks for your interest.

 

[Toolkid91]

This kind of shotgun or cast-a-wide-net method - hoping that someone else is going to identify it for you, is the most convenient approach, and might work. Eventually. But with tools and equipment like this, which is not only antique or older vintage, but esoteric, your odds are very low, because the use case was already probably fairly narrow and the immediate users have all aged out.

If you're going to send inquiries to experts, I would contact the Smithsonian Institution, in particular, the Museum of American History. When you go into their Contacts page, there are all kinds of choices, even a Staff Directory with enough information to narrow down your contacts topically. I would contact three or four at once, not sequentially, with a polite, well-crafted email. My experience in getting responses has been excellent. At the Institution level, there is a Research Resources section on their website. It is their outreach program for researchers of all kinds, mainly professionals, academics, etc, but including amateurs. They have a great appreciation for small "museums" of all kinds. I would also ask there.

https://www.si.edu/research-resources

The Smithsonian Magazine has a Curator's Corner, similar to the Research Resources, like backdoor access to curators. I would also ask there.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/category/curators-corner/

In the meantime, you can also do your own research. Google Books is a terrific resource, if you're not already aware of it. Without a company name, brand name, or patent number or date you're going to have to take the long road, but it can be done. Search for topical (agricultural, forestry, etc) trade magazines and general agricultural or forestry oriented hardware catalogs between 1900 and 1950 and just start paging.

Good luck.

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate you taking the time to advise me on this. I will start paging through google books today and I will look into contacting some experts at the Smithsonian and elsewhere. The "shotgun" method has normally been our strategy, and it has worked well for a number of different things. But this one like you said only someone who has used it is going to know it, and they are probably no longer with us. Again, thank you for taking the time. It's so nice random strangers will help a guy online like this. Come visit us sometime!

 

[Toolkid91]

Could it have been mounted upside down, or possibly sideways on a wall? Looks like some sort of clamp to me possibly to hold a square column together for glue-up or maybe a bundle of pipes or something for packaging. Just a wild guess... good luck!

I guess I haven't thought of it that way. I think though if it was going to be mounted sideways, they wouldn't make it with such a heavy base. I am not near the item right now the only measurements I have of it are the ones in the photos sorry. Thank you for your interest!

 

[RTM]

The only part of it that moves are the two arms up and down with the springs. Thanks for your interest.

Ok, that limits my thoughts some

The only part about that that makes sense to me is that it looks like it holds something as a form. But the use of springs and metal contact surfaces just doesn't add up. Steam bending jigs use wood, because you don't want to dent the hot wood, and they use wedges and clamps, because springs don't give the force advantage needed for the job (wood needs to be over-bent and then firmly held while still hot, not allowed to creep under spring tension as it cools). So, I'm positive it's not that.

Yeah, duh, thanks for reminding me. I forgot how tight I needed to hold stuff when making shaker boxes til they cooled, To keep them from moving before tacking them shut. Maybe if you were doing thin bands, but not 1/4” or more stock.

My first thought was it's some sort of weld positioning or assembly jig, but those over-center mechanisms have me stumped. The levers are mounted to cradles that are attached to the topside of the "Mario goomba" frame. So they can't hold anything flat at 90 degrees unless it's so short they don't do anything, since those attachments (and their rivets too) are in the way. Yet those slots make it clear it was intended to allow the stirrups to be used in the "trans" orientation, so I'm pretty sure these are true over-center mechanisms, and not just third class levers.

Is it really over center? I think of that term with a solid asymmetrical pivot bar spanning the pivots we have, but I’ve been wrong before.
The only thing I see blocking a clear path is the step up from the frame to the hoop support, then the hoop where it hits, then the rivet below the hoop.

Going back to the light pressure the spring clamp could provide, using it like a stop to position something for making a joint isn’t working for me, why does it need to pivot? At that spring tension, what could it hold? Wet cardboard to dry?

Looking at the width, that’s like 1/2” wide slats that would fit thru the sides on the hoop bracket.

How wide is it between the hoops and inside frame? Are they both equal distance? Is a common measurement, say 6" or maybe 6-1/2"? Maybe it was used to bundle a stack of something like hardwood flooring or lath strips? Perhaps used in pairs or more?

Using my precise finger calipers, I’d put it between 3 & 3 1/2”



So what is about 1/2” x 6-7” right angle?


I love a good challenge / brain teaser.

 

[Plombob]

Sheep castration stand.

Calling Pines......

 

[dscheidt]

In 1969, I spent two weeks working on a sculpture in William Boetcher's class.
I titled it "Whimadiddle for Grinding Smoke".

YMMV

Going back to the light pressure the spring clamp could provide, using it like a stop to position something for making a joint isn’t working for me, why does it need to pivot? At that spring tension, what could it hold? Wet cardboard to dry?

My guess it’s an assembly fixture for something. Holds something together while you screw, sew, rivet, whatever it permanently. Given the total lack of markings, I would bet it is shop made, and unless it was used in sets, it is probably one of a kind.

@Toolkid91 is it likely that it was acquired some what locally to Stugeon Bay? Focusing on what the common industry was might be where I started. Shipbuilding, timber, fishing, (what kind of processing was done there? ) were all pretty big. So was agriculture, but that’s not specifically local, so some would have had some idea of what it could be used for.

 

[stainlessyyc]

Is there any wear marks on the bottom of the ‘jaws’ or maybe around the cutouts on the hinge cradle?

 

[Toolkid91]

My guess it’s an assembly fixture for something. Holds something together while you screw, sew, rivet, whatever it permanently. Given the total lack of markings, I would bet it is shop made, and unless it was used in sets, it is probably one of a kind.

@Toolkid91 is it likely that it was acquired some what locally to Stugeon Bay? Focusing on what the common industry was might be where I started. Shipbuilding, timber, fishing, (what kind of processing was done there? ) were all pretty big. So was agriculture, but that’s not specifically local, so some would have had some idea of what it could be used for.

It's likely it is from Sturgeon Bay, but I really don't have any idea. The shipyard was the largest thing in town so it could have been used there. I was thinking it's probably for a specific assembly of something but there is at least two of them out there. The other one is on Facebook with a similar "what is this thing" caption. Do you think even if there is two floating around it could still be for assembly? Thanks for your interest!

 

[Toolkid91]

Is there any wear marks on the bottom of the ‘jaws’ or maybe around the cutouts on the hinge cradle?

The only wear marks I'm aware of are on both sides where the arms hit the frame and on the arms themselves. That makes me think it's for a somewhat delicate use? Really driving me crazy thanks for your interest.

 

[stainlessyyc]

The only wear marks I'm aware of are on both sides where the arms hit the frame and on the arms themselves. That makes me think it's for a somewhat delicate use? Really driving me crazy thanks for your interest.

Could be something that kind of reminds me of what my dad would do to help with his arthritis, make a unique fixture for something as he is a one man shop.

With the cutouts placed how they are placed for the ‘jaws’ could it have held a draw knife by the handles so it could be sharpened? Would the tension be enough? Usually you would hold it by one end with the other on the bench so it doesn’t rock but that’s hard with arthritis to also run the file or stone too, this looks like the base could be in a wood vise to bring the knife to waist level to sharpen and the wood knife handles wouldn’t mark up the fixture and the wear markings on the side is just from flipping them up and down by hand?

 

[Hooterville]

Thanks for the challenge! I've been racking my brain. I may need to call-a-friend: brother-in-law who is a diesel mechanic / farmer in Indiana.

 

[Lassen Forge]

It looks like a tire tube stretcher for patching holes.

 

[Toolkid91]

Could be something that kind of reminds me of what my dad would do to help with his arthritis, make a unique fixture for something as he is a one man shop.

With the cutouts placed how they are placed for the ‘jaws’ could it have held a draw knife by the handles so it could be sharpened? Would the tension be enough? Usually you would hold it by one end with the other on the bench so it doesn’t rock but that’s hard with arthritis to also run the file or stone too, this looks like the base could be in a wood vise to bring the knife to waist level to sharpen and the wood knife handles wouldn’t mark up the fixture and the wear markings on the side is just from flipping them up and down by hand?

I think it would be really hard to keep anything like that steady on it. I think with the draw knife idea you would want something that could fit multiple sizes, and I think the handles would get ruined. But hey who am I to say I don't know what it is lol thanks for commenting and your interest!