Help Identifying Accessories for Atlas 7B Shaper

[tooljunkie4]

I have a handful of machine tools at home to dig out and make useful. Most are staying. Some are going. In the same shop, there is a disorganized tool chest stuffed with a jumble of accessories for all of them. I can pick out some of the lathe tooling, and some of the mill accessories - but not all. I'd like to separate out the accessories that can only be for the Atlas 7B metal shaper, and send them off to greener pastures with that machine. Toward that end, I'll show you guys what machines I have, and then post up photos of the drawers of accessories. Any help you can provide with identifying what's what would be great.

Victim #1: An Atlas TH42 Lathe






Victim #2: A Rockwell 21-100 Vertical Mill





and
Victim #3: An Atlas 7B Shaper




Photos of the contents of the drawers to be posted in next reply. Will be up in a few minutes.

 

[tooljunkie4]

And here are the drawers full of accessories. It's not everything. I'm pretty sure there is a crate full of gears and turning stock on one of the shelves. Haven't dug that far into the garage just yet. Still clearing a path in that direction.

 

[Slowboat]

I had the same mill and same shaper, so hopefully I can help.

Picture 6, lower left looks like an internal keyway shaper tool, and in the same box a handle that might fit the vise or shaper. There could/should be two of them. That whole box could be to the shaper.

Some of the Armstrong tool holders could be for the shaper - need more detailed pictures.

I don’t think so, but picture 5 has a long shot of being the indexing center.

 

[tooljunkie4]

I had the same mill and same shaper, so hopefully I can help.

I appreciate your taking the time.

Picture 6, lower left looks like an internal keyway shaper tool, and in the same box a handle that might fit the vise or shaper. There could/should be two of them. That whole box could be to the shaper.

The fruitcake box. The second of those handles is sticking out of the top of the machine.

Some of the Armstrong tool holders could be for the shaper - need more detailed pictures.

Will tear into all of that again tomorrow afternoon and get photos of all of the tool holders then.

I don’t think so, but picture 5 has a long shot of being the indexing center.

The item marked 10-326B / 10-326T ? The other large item in that photo, from what I understand, is the bottom view of the rotary table for the mill.

 

[Cruzan80]

I agree with the fruitcake box. One looks to have a long bar and a holder for internal keyways, as the other has a holder for cutting bits.

Not the 10-326B item, but below that. The thing you listed is a steady rest for the lathe.

 

[tooljunkie4]

Some of the Armstrong tool holders could be for the shaper - need more detailed pictures.

I don’t think so, but picture 5 has a long shot of being the indexing center.

Unless you meant this thing (I really don't know):



or perhaps this thing:

 

[Slowboat]

I think you are right that it is a rotary table. Atlas made a rare attachment called indexing center, and I wasn't sure if that is what you had (late night on my phone).

Atlas Craftsman Shaper Indexing Centers | eBay

<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">Comes as pictured. PLEASE VIEW ALL PICS CAREFULLY AS THEY ARE PART OF THE DESCRIPTION. Ebay puts guaranteed delivery dates not me. Although I normally ship same or next business day I cannot guarantee a delivery date. International buyers are...

www.ebay.com

 

[RoninB4]

From what I see in the photos you have a mix of tooling for all three machines IMO. The Armstrong holders are just that, Tool Holders that don't care what machine they're put in as long as they fit and set the cutting edge at the correct working relationship. Put one in the lathe and see if they cutting edge sets at center, if you have a "lantern style" tool post the cutting edge can be easily adjusted. Other tooling like the center can either be used in the mill or perhaps the shaper, though less likely to have a job needing one. You also appear to have a rotary table (rotab for short) that's upside down in photo 5 so I can't tell, it will be most used in the mill. The right of the rotab and also the fruitcake box are steady rests (you have two of the), they are used almost exclusively in the lathe, although one should fit better than the other. You should sort out and separate all the tooling you can't identify, it will make it easier to have this discussion.

The shaper is an old-tech machine that's not often seen in more modern machine shops yet they do have a unique function to them. Spur gears can be can be created by merely grinding a single point tool bit, no special/expensive circular cutter needed. Same goes for external straight splines. They can also create internal keyways and internal splines with ease. The former require an appropriate broach, the latter are nigh-on impossible without special/expensive tooling you will likely never recover the cost of without a shaper. The shaper is slow, somewhat crude, but simple in design. You may not get much cash for a small one like that unless you get some Olde Phart like myself that just has to have one. They are excruciatingly slow for production work but for a hobby shop that make one or two of something they can easily fill a niche that other machines can't. I'd weigh the sale price versus what it can do for you. Put it on casters so it can be rolled in/out as needed. That's JMO as a retired toolmaker.

 

[Cruzan80]

Ronin, would disagree on price. These small shapers tend to command a premium over their capacity. Both because it can fit in a hobbyist garage, and the YT effect. Most I have seen go for 750+, up to saw one asking 2k. So, I do agree for the OP to see if they need it, but if not, it would be a quick sale for some decent $$$ (especially with having the original vise).

 

[RoninB4]

Ronin, would disagree on price. These small shapers tend to command a premium over their capacity. Both because it can fit in a hobbyist garage, and the YT effect. Most I have seen go for 750+, up to saw one asking 2k. So, I do agree for the OP to see if they need it, but if not, it would be a quick sale for some decent $$$ (especially with having the original vise).

-Price will depend upon the market advertised in and whom the ad reaches. Professional machinists and shops will not regard a shaper with serious consideration as the ROI (return on investment) is directly affected by the number of times it will be used on a paying job.

I'd like to have a shaper but even most of those that own one report not using it very often. Some do use them often because of the type of work they usually do but most don't. It is a nice small size and shouldn't take up a lot of valuable floor space. As I stated, weigh the sale price against how often the OP expects to use it.

 

[Cruzan80]

-Price will depend upon the market advertised in and whom the ad reaches. Professional machinists and shops will not regard a shaper with serious consideration as the ROI (return on investment) is directly affected by the number of times it will be used on a paying job.

I'd like to have a shaper but even most of those that own one report not using it very often. Some do use them often because of the type of work they usually do but most don't. It is a nice small size and shouldn't take up a lot of valuable floor space. As I stated, weigh the sale price against how often the OP expects to use it.

Agreed overall. Just was saying not to discount the hobbyist market. I am in something of a tool "desert", so stuff swings higher here usually.

Atlas does have the "art deco" look going for it as well, compared to some stouter ones (look how much old 618s go for, relative to a Logan for example). Think we are talking two different types of markets.

 

[mreisner]

I sold a 7B a couple years ago for 1200 with no vise. Might want to check out the Vintagemachinery.org website there's a lot of guys there with a lot of information on these older smaller machines.

 

[tooljunkie4]

From what I see in the photos you have a mix of tooling for all three machines IMO.

You should sort out and separate all the tooling you can't identify, it will make it easier to have this discussion.

Alright. Let's get into it.

I've segregated everything that I recognize into groupings by type. Still have more to photograph, but the consolidation and rough sort are done.

For context, known items:

A Delta Rockwell Homecraft sander of sorts, plus all known accessories. Haven't found a model plate on the thing yet, but there is a matching bandsaw buried on the other end of the shop.



A Famco arbor press. The other side of this is shown in the photos posted above of the Atlas metal shaper. The handle and gear move easily enough. I'm not sure what accessories for this would look like. There's a lot to go through.


Various wrenches and handles. There are others that will pop up in photos of tool sets down page, but this is the lion's share.


These are what @Cruzan80 referred to as steady rests. I imagine both belong to the lathe.


Everything else has at least some question regarding function and the machine it belongs with.

A plywood box full of round items:



Lathe chucks. 4-jaw and 3-jaw. There is a third - a 3-jaw with smaller jaws, that is currently installed on the lathe. Wrench and extra jaws for that are present.


I don't know what these are.


First glance at this reminded me of a bar bell. It has a brass or bronze bushing in the center. Smooth on the backside, and along its circumference. Not sure of its purpose.


More to follow momentarily.

 

[tooljunkie4]

It's becoming increasingly clear that, while most of the stuff that is going to be posted from this point forward will have questions attached, some will have obvious applications. I thought I had found everything, but then four more cigar boxes of accessories surfaced.

A wooden hammer, a leather hammer, and two mysteries. What is the function of the drums on the left?


Best guess is veterinary tools. I'm probably wrong.



Two-speed gearbox. Case feels like plastic, but it's actually metallic. Seems too light to be aluminum. Magnesium? What is this for?


These pulleys might fit something else. I'm not sure what, but they can be made to fit onto the shafts on the gearbox. The level and type of soil on these does not match that of the gearbox, so perhaps there is a different application.

A smaller tool post and wedges. Smaller than the one that is mounted to the lathe.

Chucks. There are a couple of designs here that I hadn't seen before. The big, cylindrical one in the middle holds its bits through spring pressure.

Toothed tools. Some have the teeth on the tip. Others are formatted like rubbermaid citrus fruit skinners. Unsure of the function.

Some knurling tools. Two more found since this photo was taken. The accessories were stored in two very different locations. Some items held up much better than others.

 

[tooljunkie4]

I have no good idea as to what these are. Would have said hold-downs for work on the mill, but the formats...

Iron motor mount, and an iron cover plate of some sort.

The top item looks to have been professionally machined. Items two, three, and possibly four (moving down), look homemade.

Screw or plunger is packed with grease. The markings on the steel strap are the only markings on the entire assembly.

The MT accessories seem more or less self-explanatory. The iron jaw harps are a bit of a headscratcher.

Again with the live center and wrenches. Not a big mystery. The cylinders to the left, however...what is their function?

Ordered by size. Not sure what operation these would have been used to complete. Also, shaper, or lathe?

Boring bars?

More boring tools.

All of the tool holders. Are any of these for the shaper only? I know that tool can be used to dig out keyways, but can it be used to thread?

 

[Cruzan80]

A Famco arbor press. The other side of this is shown in the photos posted above of the Atlas metal shaper. The handle and gear move easily enough. I'm not sure what accessories for this would look like. There's a lot to go through.

Looks to have the "standard" accessories (handle and daisy wheel, aka. circular piece at bottom with cutouts). You may find things like bearing splitters, but not necessarily.

Various wrenches and handles. There are others that will pop up in photos of tool sets down page, but this is the lion's share.

My guess is the handle on the right with the S/Z shape (third in from right) will fit the shaper.

These are what @Cruzan80 referred to as steady rests. I imagine both belong to the lathe.

Yes. Technically, the one on the right is a follow rest (bolts to the saddle and "follows" the cutter), whereas the left one bolts to a specific spot on the bed and "stays steady" there. Both go with the lathe

Everything else has at least some question regarding function and the machine it belongs with.

A plywood box full of round items:



Lathe chucks. 4-jaw and 3-jaw. There is a third - a 3-jaw with smaller jaws, that is currently installed on the lathe. Wrench and extra jaws for that are present.

Do the top two flat faced things thread on the lathe? They are faceplates, where work is attached (either directly, or using "work dogs"). Same with the 3 and 4 jaw chucks, would probably be for the lathe unless you have a rotary indexer.

 

[tooljunkie4]

MT reamers. The black one lives in the tube, and is still sharp. The others are less so. The shell mill nearest the paper box belongs in that box, and is razor sharp. The other less so.

The R8 device on the upper left is a bit weird. Seems to be a collet, but with a set screw for securing whatever it was designed to hold.
I imagine the tool below it is a mount for tool holders. Maybe boring bars? Not sure how you would adjust height on it if that is the case.

Eight MT tools. The live center is the largest I've seen. Still as smooth as glass.
The chuck jaws are actually complete sets. I found the other two parts of the third set shortly after this group of tools was put away the first time.

Four motors that were laying around the pile of tools. None of the machines is missing one. Not sure whether any of these would be useful as backups.

Bottom motor / wire brush driver.
Next one up.

From the upper-left.

From the upper-right.

There was also this bunch of bulk lead. What use would any of this be to a machinist?

 

[Cruzan80]

EDITED to put comments in line with pics

"Piece of iron cover"

Second photo looks like the back half of the cross slide for the lathe.

Third looks like drawbars, which would pull something (like a collet) tight against the headstock. Depending on collets/threading/length, could be for edit: either the lathe or the mill

Next photo looks like a collet closer, probably for the lathe. The threaded section would go into the collet, and the lever would bring it open/shut

Fifth photo is the dogs I was talking about for attaching work to the faceplates. Edit: Think this is what you are calling the iron harp things.

Next three photos appear to be boring bars of some kind, the second and third photo of them takes HSS inserts. Goes with the lathe, possibly internal keyway for the shaper, or deep small hole on the mill?)

Last photo is of lathe tool holders. Left column top to bottom is boring bar holder x2, knurling tool, cutting tool. Middle column threading x2, ???, cutting tool x2. Right column is cutoff tool x3 and the cutting tool. Guess you could use them on the shaper for any cutting tool that fit if you really wanted.

 

[tooljunkie4]

These were in one of the crates. They appear unused, but they're old and furry. By now you've seen the equipment I have. If they're not needed in order to operate any of that stuff in a home garage setting, they can go. Maybe one of the sparkies here can weigh in on whether these units are up to current code.

Text

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In addition to all of this stuff, there were a whole bundle of random things that turned up. Loads of vintage hardware. Then a neat cigar box of junk. Will post up a freebie thread in the classified section for those items. Plenty to look at there.

 

[Cruzan80]

First photo is reamers, boring bar holder at the bottom, two horizontal cutters on the right.

Second photo under the box looks like an end mill holder for the mill, and bottom is a boring bar holder that would replace the lantern when used for the lathe. Edit: the set screw holds the endmill in the holder, will go with the mill. The boring bar holder would be if you needed further rigidity compared to the lantern toolpost and boring bar holder, would go in the same T-slot on the lathe as the current lantern.

Third pic has some centers as well as Morse wedges for removing if needed (for the lathe). Maybe a set of chuck jaws? Probably would use the centers in the tailstock of the lathe, the larger ones on the top of the pic may fit the headstock of the lathe.

 

[Cruzan80]

These were in one of the crates. They appear unused, but they're old and furry. By now you've seen the equipment I have. If they're not needed in order to operate any of that stuff in a home garage setting, they can go. Maybe one of the sparkies here can weigh in on whether these units are up to current code.

Westinghouse box is missing the fuses that would be sized for the load. Unsure on the smaller box.

Hope these help. I am sure others will also be a long to fill in gaps, or correct me if needed.

 

[tooljunkie4]

My guess is the handle on the right with the S/Z shape (third in from right) will fit the shaper.

The shaper still has both of its original handles accounted for. Unless the shaper requires a third of a different size.

Do the top two flat faced things thread on the lathe? They are faceplates, where work is attached (either directly, or using "work dogs"). Same with the 3 and 4 jaw chucks, would probably be for the lathe unless you have a rotary indexer.

Not sure. The lathe is still pretty deeply buried. That's part of the reason I'm working to get the shaper and all of its accessories bundled and sold. Would love to go through and play with the lathe. The garage needs a new paintjob.

It is harder for me to get text in between photos on mobile when there isn't text in between pics, sorry. These are my best guesses.

I'll make edits. Some of the descriptions you posted don't seem to correspond with the items in the photos cited. Could just be down to a formatting snafu on my part. Give me five minutes to add in some text.

 

[Cruzan80]

Updated the posts after I got on the computer.

So far, the only pieces I am seeing that are definately shaper-only are the small items initially identified in the "fruit-cake" box. The black bar with a nut at the end (shown underneath the grip part of the handle) and the silver bar with an O shape just south of it, unless some of the square wrenches fit specific spots you see on the shaper. Does the handle fit on the shaper vise by chance?

Otherwise, the tool-holders (bottom four that take square inserts) could fit the shaper or the lathe, as well as if a boring bar or two fits in the "silver bar with O shape" in the fruit-cake box, it would be used for internal keyways. Not saying you couldn't also use them in your lathe if you desired, just depends on how "complete" you want to sell the shaper as. Same with the HSS blanks in your first post (bars shown in your first post, one pic below this linked one).

 

[tooljunkie4]

So far, the only pieces I am seeing that are definately shaper-only are the small items initially identified in the "fruit-cake" box. The black bar with a nut at the end (shown underneath the grip part of the handle) and the silver bar with an O shape just south of it, unless some of the square wrenches fit specific spots you see on the shaper. Does the handle fit on the shaper vise by chance?

All of the square wrenches fit the square fasteners on the shaper. The handle and its identical twin fit all of the square nuts on the shaper, and fit the vise. It's all there.

Same with the HSS blanks in your first post (bars shown in your first post, one pic below this linked one).

I am swimming in HSS, cobalt, and carbide blanks. Also slotted razor blades, from the looks of things.
This photo file slipped between the cracks:

 

[RoninB4]

Well I still contend that you've got quite an assortment of tooling. Cruzan80 has identified a number of items but there's still a few details to consider.

First off all the chucks and faceplates must be tested to see if they even fit the lathe. All lathes have a mounting system at the headstock, usually specified by the original buyer. Chucks and faceplates that don't match the headstock mounting can possibly be used with an adaptor but that depends upon how badly you want to keep/use them. I have the last 4 jaw that was OEM for Sheldon lathes when they went bankrupt. It doesn't fit any of my current lathes but I've kept it since 1984 in case I wanted to adapt it. You need to check and separate what does/doesn't fit.

The steady rest and follow rest are either for your lathe or they aren't. Unlike the chucks/faceplates there is really no adaptor to fit the bed-ways of your lathe. Also, the center height of both steady/follow rests will either match the centerline of your headstock height or they won't. Some people find useful tooling for other machines and keep it for bargaining/trade with others. I'm guilty of that too.

There is more to be said per photo, guess I'll make separate posts.

 

[RoninB4]

Sander- Useful for lots of things, the spare motors/pulleys could possibly power this

Bandsaw-Very useful depending upon whether for wood or metal

Arbor Press- You'll need one sooner or later, no accessories for this unless shop made

"A plywood box full of round items:"- Lathe chucks and faceplates. Most appear to be threaded onto the headstock nose. Be careful attempting to install these to avoid bunging the threads. If they are too heavy to hold while installing use some wood blocks to raise the chuck to headstock center height. Do this to avoid dropping the chuck/faceplate on the bed-ways, even light contact will damage both.

Two hammers are to avoid marring delicate surfaces. The drums are likely to attach grit paper to while using inside a bore diameter.

The "veterinary tools" are for scraping in a surface (some of these appear to be for an inside diameter). Machine scraping is a rather lost art known and practiced by fewer individuals every year. It's a critical process in machine tool building/repairing that is labor intensive, time consuming, and highly prized by older machinists and toolmakers. Scraping is often imitated by hacks with terrible results if you know what it should look like, it's imitated to fool those new to machining.

The gearbox- No idea what it's for but it's driven at a right angle to whatever it drives. Wouldn't toss it until you can identify

The smaller tool-post of that type is called a "lantern" style, the wedges adjust the fool holder cutting edge

 

[RoninB4]

I have no good idea as to what these are. Would have said hold-downs for work on the mill, but the formats...

-Yes these are hold-down clamps for a much heavier milling machine than most people have.

Iron motor mount, and an iron cover plate of some sort.

-The bottom piece looks like it's the end cover plate for a cross slide on a small lathe

The top item looks to have been professionally machined. Items two, three, and possibly four (moving down), look homemade.

Top item looks like a collet adaptor for a lathe, the next two items look like collet stops. Photo not good enough to tell. Very bottom item resembles what is used in a mill to hold an indicator, would need further examination. Might have been shop made at old job.

Screw or plunger is packed with grease. The markings on the steel strap are the only markings on the entire assembly.

-Resembles a collet closer for a lathe, might not be

The MT accessories seem more or less self-explanatory. The iron jaw harps are a bit of a headscratcher.

-Two of the three items on the right are tapers to fit a lathe tailstock or drill press. All the rest of the items are lathe dogs. They're used to drive shafts held between centers on the lathe. If you have a lathe operator manual you'll see them used.

Again with the live center and wrenches. Not a big mystery. The cylinders to the left, however...what is their function?

-Looks like mandrels used to hold hollow cylinders (with pine pitch) while running between centers on the lathe. I've used plenty of them (much larger) when I was an OD grinder.

Ordered by size. Not sure what operation these would have been used to complete. Also, shaper, or lathe?

-Likely boring bars for the lathe, I never liked this older style.

Boring bars?

More boring tools.

-Yes more boring bars and holders for them. Used in the lathe mostly but I have used them while boring in a vertical mill.

All of the tool holders. Are any of these for the shaper only? I know that tool can be used to dig out keyways, but can it be used to thread?

-They can be used in the shaper IF they fit properly. Threading? Sure can if the tool bit is ground for thread geometry of one sort or another (many different types of thread geometry besides the sharp "V" type commonly seen on fasteners).

 

[RoninB4]

MT reamers. The black one lives in the tube, and is still sharp. The others are less so. The shell mill nearest the paper box belongs in that box, and is razor sharp. The other less so.

-Those shell mills need a specific driver/holder, are used in the mill, and are expensive. Wrap them in oiled paper to protect.

The R8 device on the upper left is a bit weird. Seems to be a collet, but with a set screw for securing whatever it was designed to hold.
I imagine the tool below it is a mount for tool holders. Maybe boring bars? Not sure how you would adjust height on it if that is the case.

-The R8 holder is for end mills. Some folks prefer these over a collet so they don't pull up/down when side milling. The set screw secures the cut-away section in an end mill. These are the "Weldon" style of end mill holder. Yes the holder below those is for boring bars. The canter of the "holes" should be the centerline of the headstock. If not, specially made shim plates are used. This is why tooling should be matched to a particular machine.

Eight MT tools. The live center is the largest I've seen. Still as smooth as glass.
The chuck jaws are actually complete sets. I found the other two parts of the third set shortly after this group of tools was put away the first time.

-Live centers, cup center, and dead centers. Different size tapers to them so not all will fit you lathe without an adaptor. The flat tapered bars are "keys" to separate tapered adaptors.

Four motors that were laying around the pile of tools. None of the machines is missing one. Not sure whether any of these would be useful as backups.


There was also this bunch of bulk lead. What use would any of this be to a machinist?

Orphan electric motors? Every home shop should have one or two spare electric motors on hand, you never know when you'll need one.

-The lead weights may be for a lead hammer. Those were quite common decades ago and a mold was kept in the shop to melt the deformed lead down to make a new hammer. The lead could be re-used many times. Lead was good for mass without marring/damaging a delicate part surface. Lead hammers were often used to tap a part down onto the vise parallels in a mill.

 

[Cruzan80]

Ronin, the Atlas uses an MT3 in the headstock and a MT2 in the tailstock. So possibly most/all could be used, in one end or the other.

 

[RoninB4]

Ronin, the Atlas uses an MT3 in the headstock and a MT2 in the tailstock. So possibly most/all could be used, in one end or the other.

You may be right but at least one or two of the taper shank tools looks too large/small. Only one way to tell and that's by fitting it. I have a small collection of boring heads without a proper means of mounting in any machine I have. Older machinists/toolmakers tend to view mounting as a simple modification to make it useful, I'm guilty of that too. Some have incompatible tooling for trade/swap with others and I'm guilty of that too. I really should begin selling off the shop soon.

 

[Dave G in Gansevoort]

Any update on your machines? Will you be selling any of them?

 

[tooljunkie4]

Any update on your machines? Will you be selling any of them?

I'm sorry for the delay. Hadn't thought to tag this thread, and haven't had reason to reference it in some time.

The metal shaper and its accessories are on the chopping block.