Help interpreting wiring schematic for contactor

[lilscorpion]

I’m attempting to wire up a contractor to an electrical delay relay but I’m attempting to interpret the import schematic that was provided. It’s not intended for a novice I guess and I’m new to machine control wiring. [emoji12]

It’s a fairly simple contractor. L 1-3 for “Line”, T 1-3 to “Load”.

A1 and A2...is what I’m attempting to figure out.

It’s a 2 wire setup - will control a 2 hp motor. This is the schematic.

Looking at the module, A1 and A2 are clearly signal wires. Load and Line are clear too...conceptually. I don’t understand the switch in the lower right-hand corner and then how they connect to the L’s and T’s in the middle. So basically I can really only guess which is dumb. Input I have hot, neutral, and ground. What does the switch symbol mean? Are the signal wires A1 (+) and A2 (ground)...making L1 and T1 both (+) and L2 and T2 (ground) with no neutral required?

TIA, Matt

 

[wyliesdiesels]

This is for a 240v motor?

you dont need a neutral you need 2 hots and a ground and the ground does not run through the contactor.

Does the motor have integral overload protection?

 

[yatg]

I think ... A1 and A2 are your coil terminals.
How you connect them will depend on what the coil voltage is.

 

[lilscorpion]

This is for a 240v motor?

you dont need a neutral you need 2 hots and a ground and the ground does not run through the contactor.

Does the motor have integral overload protection?

It’s 120v motor. Overload is on the motor assembly. All I need to do is delay the startup of the motor so it can prime with water first.

Ok, I thought it was just a hot only through the contractor bur wasn’t sure.

 

[lilscorpion]

I think ... A1 and A2 are your coil terminals.
How you connect them will depend on what the coil voltage is.

120v circuit.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It’s 120v motor. Overload is on the motor assembly. All I need to do is delay the startup of the motor so it can prime with water first.

Ok, I thought it was just a hot only through the contractor bur wasn’t sure.

Why did you buy a 3 pole contactor for a 120v motor?

 

[lilscorpion]

Why did you buy a 3 pole contactor for a 120v motor?

What I was finding online (AutomationDirect) didn’t appear to work for 110v so I called customer service and they pointed me at this one. My requirements were single phase for a 2HP motor.

 

[lilscorpion]

I think ... A1 and A2 are your coil terminals.
How you connect them will depend on what the coil voltage is.

So probably just A1 like I was thinking then?

 

[slodat]

A1 and A2 are the coil. You need to switch the coil power with whatever you are using to control the motor. You want to switch the 120vac side of the control circuit to either A1 or A2. Then connect neutral to the other terminal.

 

[lilscorpion]

A1 and A2 are the coil. You need to switch the coil power with whatever you are using to control the motor. You want to switch the 120vac side of the control circuit to either A1 or A2. Then connect neutral to the other terminal.

That was helpful, thank you. That’s enough for me to play with the setup and figure out how the delay relay and contactor will work together behind a conventional switch. Much appreciated.

 

[Fasthotrod]

If you have information on the relay relay, we can probably help with that as well.

It looks like they sold you a three-phase contactor for a single phase job... that's not a big deal, really. You just won't need to use two of the three contacts... just one set for the motor. (Switch just the hot leg. Always maintain the connection from the motor to neutral, and motor to ground.)

I see that you have a DIN rail that you are mounting things on... do you also have the DIN rail terminal board pieces that you can use to land some wiring? It makes life easy and really cleans up the installation if you have the budget for it.

For the motor, you'll want to pick a set of contacts from the contactor to use... for simplicity, I'd likely use L1 for the hot line from your power source, then connect the motor hot lead to T1.

A1 and A2 are used to activate the coil in the contactor to get it to change state. If you were using just a simple switch, you would take the 120 VAC hot leg to the switch, then run from the switch to A1. Then connect a neutral to A2. When you flip the switch, it will energize the coil in the contactor and it will change state and turn on the motor.

What kind of timer do you intend to use for the timing circuit? If I read your post correctly, you want the overall circuit to activate, but you need some time to pass before the pump can kick on so that the pump can establish prime first. I assume that there is more to this... maybe there is a solenoid valve that has to open to allow fluid to flow to the pump so that it can prime?

So changing the circuit to add the time delay relay: The switch would still activate the whole circuit, but instead of running the wire from the switch to the contactor, we would take it to the time delay relay first. If you are using a "On-Delay" relay, then the wire from the switch would go to the A1 of the timer relay coil. (It may be designated something else, like L1, (+), etc...) The A2 of the time delay relay would connect to neutral. You would then connect a hot wire to an unused Common contact on the relay. Then connect the respective Normally Open contact and connect it to the A1 contact on the Contactor. A2 on the Contactor would still connect to neutral.

When power is applied via the main switch, the relay timer will pick up and begin to time out. When the time delay has been reached, the Normally Open contact will close, energizing the motor contactor and turning on the pump.

I attached a simple drawing so that you could see what I was talking about. Don't forget to add any grounding as required, or appropriate fusing for the control circuits. If you needed to add a solenoid valve or some indicator lights to show what the system is doing, those could easily be added as well.

Hope this helps.

Mark

 

[yatg]

I'd put the master switch in front of everything instead of just the delay timer. That way nothing is hot when you turn if off.

 

[lilscorpion]

I see that you have a DIN rail that you are mounting things on... do you also have the DIN rail terminal board pieces that you can use to land some wiring? It makes life easy and really cleans up the installation if you have the budget for it.

Delay relay. Slick unit. Can either be setup as a delay for powering off or on (NO/NC)

Dial is fancy as ****. Can get really micro (.1 sec resolution) it macro (up to 60 hours).

The schematic

I had a few assumptions as to how it should be wired but now I'm second guessing them all. I thought 2 and 10 may be out to coil but I don't understand they symmetrical sides 1,3 and 9,11 for a NO system...unless it allows for 2 sources...which doesn't make sense with a single START.

Regarding where I'm using it: I already wired up the switches to get everything working and it’s a rats nest if ****.

That’s how I got to the din rail...needed to make the inside of the box as cool as what it runs (and it’s too damn hard to get at a single wire when I need to as a rats nest). I wanted something that would allow me to change the wiring if I add indicator lights or different switches so I landed on using some simple 10awg terminals which can handle the full 30am circuit even though the motor only has a max load of about 23amps.

For the motor, you'll want to pick a set of contacts from the contactor to use... for simplicity, I'd likely use L1 for the hot line from your power source, then connect the motor hot lead to T1.



A1 and A2 are used to activate the coil in the contactor to get it to change state. If you were using just a simple switch, you would take the 120 VAC hot leg to the switch, then run from the switch to A1. Then connect a neutral to A2. When you flip the switch, it will energize the coil in the contactor and it will change state and turn on the motor.



What kind of timer do you intend to use for the timing circuit? If I read your post correctly, you want the overall circuit to activate, but you need some time to pass before the pump can kick on so that the pump can establish prime first. I assume that there is more to this... maybe there is a solenoid valve that has to open to allow fluid to flow to the pump so that it can prime?

You nailed it. The setup is a fixed mount pressure washer that has a hard line for water into it. I’ve installed a 110v NC valve before the whole system and two NO 3way valves to allow me to select between city water and a de-ionization setup. Each valve takes about 10 seconds to change state. Obviously half way though the state change the line will likely be pressurized enough to sufficiently prime the motor for start up. Still, I’ll probably set a 15 second delay initially.

I have 2 switches on the panel. Right now the top switch fires the motor and opens the primary valve at the same time. All of the motors have ground wires that close when in an open or closed state so I can have indicators to represent each. Left light (red) indicates the system is off/primary valve closed. Green light lit, the system is on, primary valve open. Second switch just changes the water type. Yellow indicator is city water, blue is DI. At some point I’ll figure out how to make a slick car wash plate that has the words by the switches and lights.

So changing the circuit to add the time delay relay: The switch would still activate the whole circuit, but instead of running the wire from the switch to the contactor, we would take it to the time delay relay first. If you are using a "On-Delay" relay, then the wire from the switch would go to the A1 of the timer relay coil. (It may be designated something else, like L1, (+), etc...) The A2 of the time delay relay would connect to neutral. You would then connect a hot wire to an unused Common contact on the relay. Then connect the respective Normally Open contact and connect it to the A1 contact on the Contactor. A2 on the Contactor would still connect to neutral.

Perfect, that’s what I was thinking. If the switch hot goes to the contactor then when it’s off power would be cut to the contactor and stop the motor.

I attached a simple drawing so that you could see what I was talking about. Don't forget to add any grounding as required, or appropriate fusing for the control circuits. If you needed to add a solenoid valve or some indicator lights to show what the system is doing, those could easily be added as well.

Hope this helps.

Mark

Damn Mark, that’s like doing my homework for me. I was going to draw it up before I wired it but don’t need to now. Thank you. That’ll get me through phase 1.

Phase 2 is to incorporate a flow meter that turns on an indicator light when gallons tracked hits 400 (about where in need to swap the anion and cation in the DI system).

 

[yatg]

look at page 3
https://cdn.automationdirect.com/static/specs/fuji116timers.pdf

 

[lilscorpion]

look at page 3
https://cdn.automationdirect.com/static/specs/fuji116timers.pdf

Not sure that clears it up though (I’m sure I’m in full dummy mode). Power is 2-10. Start signal you tie 2 and 6 together (in my case).

When it says NO 1-3, 11-9 to me that’s unclear. Is it saying 1 and/or 3 are output for neutral with 11 and/or 9 being power?

 

[yatg]

The timer is a DPDT relay.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relay

timer terminals are 2, 5, 6, 7 and 10
timer power is 2 and 10
5,6,7 are control signals

Switched terminals are (1-com, 3-no, 4-nc) and (11-com, 9-no, 8-nc)
COM = common
NO = normally open (not connected),
NC = normally closed (connected when coil is energized)

The timer circuity is separate from the switched terminals.
This allows the timed device to operate at a different voltage or circuit if needed.

"When power is on, applying the start signal turns the
timed N.O. (normally open) contact on after the set time
has elapsed."
When the timer is waiting, 1 and 4 are connected, 11 and 9 are connected.
When the timer receives a "start" signal, the timer starts counting down.
When the interval expires, the coil is energized, 1 and 3 are connected, 11 and 8 are connected.
When the timer receives a "reset" signal, the relay coil is de-energized and the timer goes back to waiting for a "start" signal.

 

[lilscorpion]

Thanks ytag. Guess the follow on question is more specific to the schematic - I get what your saying but why are all of the nodes connected? Think that’s why it seems so confusing.

Here’s the switch (there’s 2 but I’ve only circled one. It makes the NO (3,9) and NC (4,8) nodes clear. Each of those are connected to a COM so those were the neutrals.

But, there’s a ring around the whole thing that connects the perimeter nodes together. That ring also connects 1 and 11 with a weird swoop which seems like the two are tied together.

I’m now assuming that outer ring means nothing but it doesn’t make the diagram easy to read. They could use dotted lines or dashed lines or step into this century and use color. Guess in software I’m spoiled. [emoji4]

 

[yatg]

But, there’s a ring around the whole thing that connects the perimeter nodes together. That ring also connects 1 and 11 with a weird swoop which seems like the two are tied together.

The ring represents the outline of the timer. The swoop is the "key" so it plugs into the socket correctly.

I’m now assuming that outer ring means nothing but it doesn’t make the diagram easy to read.

correct x 2

They could use dotted lines or dashed lines or step into this century and use color. Guess in software I’m spoiled. [emoji4]

That would be too easy.