Help me build a barndo!!!

[K'ledgeBldr]

Ever seen the price of an elevator?

Yes; I have. The price of residential ones isn’t that exorbitant. I have built t’hse’s with them. There is a convenience factor that can certainly offset cost. As for the OP, an elderly person who has physical limitations can certainly offset the cost vs convenience (or inconvenience).

 

[kwb]

Is the MIL a permanent resident or just extended stay guest?
I ask because a proper closet and more storage space would be good for someone that has to have all worldly possessions there.
The bathroom and laundry rooms are very generous in size relative to overall living quarters - I would be inclined to give some of that back. Either to shop space or storage.

I would want the bathroom to have a better access to shop space - while it is setup as an ADU now, there may be a point in the future that becomes more of a "party room" and not regularly inhabited but having more direct access from the shop would be a good thing. With that in mind - I think the kitchen is oversized and/or should be flipped to get rid of the wall by the door. Single person or couple of house guests don't need much in the way for a kitchen and you have given them one that will support a family of 5.

Agree on the floor strategy being a rodent hotel. Since you have already raised doors and windows.... I would be inclined to fill with gravel, put down a layer of foam and pour heated slab.

 

[CADPoint]

I didn't think of the kwb statement of it turning into a "party room" but it was a great point!

Why the off setting of the walls down the back side of bedroom through the laundry and then laundry
room interior wall gets smaller. Might I suggest at least consider 6" stub walls on both the interior shorter walls
of laundry. The drain pipe, plus roof vent pipe or consider a studor vent, plus water pipes, plus dryer venting
plus electrical are all in the wall. Any ways it can be a real dance. Consider thickening up the "L" low wall off of the
kitchen with sink and D/W, Water, drain, Roof or stuber vent, same deal "a Dance". Drawing the Washer and dryer
they never leave room for the dryer vent, not sure but dryer should be closer to outside, but it's venting into the
corner of the building.

It also looks like the double doors are Glass? Why? Is it an art statement? Consider A single 36" or even 42" door
and move it to one side, of the room. Even with all the cabinets in Bedroom more usable space is a plus, be it a
small table or TV stand is not shown.

You need to start a power arrangement plan for all receptacles, switches (w/3 and 4 ways) panel placement, lights inside
and outside, WiFi drop, and Wifi main location, if your going to have a landline and drop(s), blue wire for internet?
Pad fans, Lights and arrangements.

Whatever walls are open or against the garage, Rock wool in toto.

That's all I could think of, I'm totally envious, besides I'm not getting paid for my review... Enjoy!

 

[JSB Jeep]

Why are you building a raised wood floor on top of an existing slab? Seems like a waste. I assumed you were building over dirt.

We made this decision after some advisement of a few trusted people that we know. The slope around the building comes towards the barn so raising the floor out of precaution seemed like a preventative measure. Also avoiding cutting into the concrete for plumbing as well as being able to insulate the floor a bit seemed like other advantages.

 

[JSB Jeep]

Is the MIL a permanent resident or just extended stay guest?
I ask because a proper closet and more storage space would be good for someone that has to have all worldly possessions there.
The bathroom and laundry rooms are very generous in size relative to overall living quarters - I would be inclined to give some of that back. Either to shop space or storage.

I would want the bathroom to have a better access to shop space - while it is setup as an ADU now, there may be a point in the future that becomes more of a "party room" and not regularly inhabited but having more direct access from the shop would be a good thing. With that in mind - I think the kitchen is oversized and/or should be flipped to get rid of the wall by the door. Single person or couple of house guests don't need much in the way for a kitchen and you have given them one that will support a family of 5.

Agree on the floor strategy being a rodent hotel. Since you have already raised doors and windows.... I would be inclined to fill with gravel, put down a layer of foam and pour heated slab.

Yes the MIL will be a permanent resident. Depending on the future and longevity, the plan would be that the space could be used as an airbnb/short term rental income in the future. It would also be a space that we could transition to at some point in the future. We've spent a lot of time planning out the interior floor plan and I think we have it dialed in for our needs. The oversized bathroom and laundry room might get tweaked here or there once I start building the walls but this is our starting point for now.

 

[JSB Jeep]

I didn't think of the kwb statement of it turning into a "party room" but it was a great point!

Why the off setting of the walls down the back side of bedroom through the laundry and then laundry
room interior wall gets smaller. Might I suggest at least consider 6" stub walls on both the interior shorter walls
of laundry. The drain pipe, plus roof vent pipe or consider a studor vent, plus water pipes, plus dryer venting
plus electrical are all in the wall. Any ways it can be a real dance. Consider thickening up the "L" low wall off of the
kitchen with sink and D/W, Water, drain, Roof or stuber vent, same deal "a Dance". Drawing the Washer and dryer
they never leave room for the dryer vent, not sure but dryer should be closer to outside, but it's venting into the
corner of the building.

It also looks like the double doors are Glass? Why? Is it an art statement? Consider A single 36" or even 42" door
and move it to one side, of the room. Even with all the cabinets in Bedroom more usable space is a plus, be it a
small table or TV stand is not shown.

You need to start a power arrangement plan for all receptacles, switches (w/3 and 4 ways) panel placement, lights inside
and outside, WiFi drop, and Wifi main location, if your going to have a landline and drop(s), blue wire for internet?
Pad fans, Lights and arrangements.

Whatever walls are open or against the garage, Rock wool in toto.

That's all I could think of, I'm totally envious, besides I'm not getting paid for my review... Enjoy!

There's a slight jog in that wall because there is an interior floor drain in the floor of the building. First step is to figure out where that drain goes and that will determine how that wall gets laid out.
Thank you for the insight on all of the electrical, washer/dryer venting details. These are exactly the things I'm beginning to sort out before things get finalized. She's considering a vent less dryer so that's why I placed it where it is currently shown. It could easily be moved to the outside wall for proper venting if need be.
Yes the double doors going into the bedroom are glass. Not my idea but not my money haha! These have already been purchased so it is what it is... There will be a wall mounted tv on the wall going into the bathroom most likely.
I'll be starting the power plan soon and will post that here for help. Thank you! I am looking at P2P internet access currently but I will be running a new electrical line, water line, and natural gas line from the house to the barn so I may drop in cat5 at that time. Will definitely be revisiting these options down the road...

 

[billconner]

I like you plan. In construction you might consider planning to allow for some future disability. Able to remove the sink cabinets (an extra panel next to dw), continuous blocking in walls in bathroom, a little more maneuvering room around washer/dryer and laundry sink, etc. Just a thought to planning for future.

ps: any chance of a skylight in bathroom? one of those tube things? I would really miss daylight. Maybe a transom over one or both doors.

 

[JSB Jeep]

I like you plan. In construction you might consider planning to allow for some future disability. Able to remove the sink cabinets (an extra panel next to dw), continuous blocking in walls in bathroom, a little more maneuvering room around washer/dryer and laundry sink, etc. Just a thought to planning for future.

ps: any chance of a skylight in bathroom? one of those tube things? I would really miss daylight. Maybe a transom over one or both doors.

Great ideas thank you! This place is in a very secluded area and is right next to a remote woods. 99% of the time the bathroom doors will remain open allowing sufficient natural light. We've briefly discussed some of your concerns above but we definitely need to revisit your ideas soon. Please keep any and all suggestions coming!!

 

[billconner]

There's an article or book an architect I spoken wrote about planning dwellings for aging. I mentioned the 3 I could remember. I'll look for article/book.

 

[billconner]

Can't find it. It was from my early work with design for accessibility in 1990s.

"Aging in place" is the term to Google. More - all drawers in base kitchen cabinets, few or no upper cabinets, and you have the perfect opportunity for a no curb shower with your floor raising. These are all mainstream items that make the dwelling more user friendly even if perfectly fit.

 

[Rc_Guy]

Can't find it. It was from my early work with design for accessibility in 1990s.

"Aging in place" is the term to Google. More - all drawers in base kitchen cabinets, few or no upper cabinets, and you have the perfect opportunity for a no curb shower with your floor raising. These are all mainstream items that make the dwelling more user friendly even if perfectly fit.

This is some of that we did when we built our pole barn house in 2016, all handicap, accessible doors, all lower kitchen cabinets have slide out drawers when you open the cabinet doors, a walk-in shower, that is easy to get into and that is why we went one level also

 

[billconner]

This is some of that we did when we built our pole barn house in 2016, all handicap, accessible doors, all lower kitchen cabinets have slide out drawers when you open the cabinet doors, a walk-in shower, that is easy to get into and that is why we went one level also

Good planning! I really like my all drawer base cabinets, and not having doors to open or be in the way. Unloading dishwasher directly to adjacent drawers is so easy and could be done seated. I love old multi story houses but have grown to appreciate a well designed ranch, which includes many barndominiums. We're in a two story with basement now and I often mutter the stairs will be the death of me. (Hospital room stats confirm the likelihood.)

 

[CADPoint]

I mentioned your design and my statement about drawings boxes against the wall, my friend reminded me about
the in wall insert for exhaust venting and the same is available for flush H & C water supply and drain outlet as shown.
Enjoy!

 

[ludakris04]

First thing I notice is the lack of a closet.
Around here, for something to be considered a bedroom, it has to have a closet.

 

[JSB Jeep]

First thing I notice is the lack of a closet.
Around here, for something to be considered a bedroom, it has to have a closet.

If you look at the right side of the bedroom you’ll see storage. That’s what i put in for space planning purposes. The actual build will have a reach in closet with about 15 feet worth of storage.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'm not sure if I would scale down the bathroom. Ever try to maneuver a wheel chair in a bathroom or assist an elderly person in a small bathroom ?

 

[Jacko264]

Fantastic build and conversion love it
Graham

 

[JSB Jeep]

Ok guys let's keep going on...
I'm looking at hiring out the subfloor and am waiting on a few contractors to get me pricing on:
1. Adding fill and pouring more concrete per our designed floor plan
2. Installing a more traditional floor joist lumber/insulation flooring system

If we end up going with option 1 on the concrete, it will be insulated underneath. We do not have the budget to heat the floors. On top of the concrete would have 4x8 sheets of closed cell Durofoam. This product is designed for concrete floors and acts as the vapor barrier and thermal barrier. It has an R value of just under 4. I would then install 4x8 sheets of 3/4" t&g subfloor sheathing. This will get fastened to the concrete with tapcon screws. We're going to then install waterproof vinyl plank flooring. Total R value is going to end up right around 5. I know that's not much but does anyone see any problems going this way? For HVAC we're looking at either a mitsubishi mini split system or a more traditional furnace system. There will also be a NG fireplace for the super cold temperatures. Walls will be R-25 and attic will have blown in cellulose at R-40+. Is this enough to offset the colder temperatures of the concrete?

 

[Toomanytools?]

If you are concerned about the slope of the lot, I would not install a raised wood floor. So either correct the slope issue ( this should be done anyway) either by grading or installing drain pipe around.
If you do a concrete fill add an XPS rigid insulation such as Ownes Foamular NGX that will give you an R10 and a thermal break. For that space 1200 SQ/FT? about $2000.
Your install of Durafoam and subfloor sounds good, I don't know the climate where you are but any thermal break will be noticeable. Plus that would take out some of the harshness of walking on a slab all day.

 

[billconner]

I think foam is less expensive (and more beneficial) than concrete so probably more foam. As I suggested above, anchor foam (EPS) and encase in concrete with 4" on top. More rodent proof. If insisting on foam on top, you might want a double layer of sub flooring, and it wouldn't have to be anchored to concrete. Beware subfloor on foam may "squeak", at least initially. That was my experience the one time I tried it.

 

[JSB Jeep]

If you are concerned about the slope of the lot, I would not install a raised wood floor. So either correct the slope issue ( this should be done anyway) either by grading or installing drain pipe around.
If you do a concrete fill add an XPS rigid insulation such as Ownes Foamular NGX that will give you an R10 and a thermal break. For that space 1200 SQ/FT? about $2000.
Your install of Durafoam and subfloor sounds good, I don't know the climate where you are but any thermal break will be noticeable. Plus that would take out some of the harshness of walking on a slab all day.

I have a backhoe and will be installing more drainage as a precaution to keep water away from the building. On the concrete are you saying that I need to install the gravel fill first, then the XPS, then the concrete? Just making sure....

 

[Toomanytools?]

Well usually you would place gravel and compact, this should be pretty easy as it is over a slab. Then place the XPS and pour concrete. The idea of the XPS is to break the thermal conduction, so usually XPS on top of gravel. Also do a 12" perimeter XPS will help with heat.

 

[billconner]

10" of foam or 8" of gravel and 2" of foam. Which costs less and is easier?

Based on existing wall and 12" of exterior wall, I thought all foam with a space for a 4" or so "wall" against inside plane of exterior wall was most successful for rodent protection, and easy to do. I guess something like cement board 12" high, gravel leveled and compacted (or use pea gravel - self compacting), foam, and slab?

 

[PugetDude]

Or, maybe you could just build on the existing slab if you use one of these… no need to cut the concrete?

 

[billconner]

Or, maybe you could just build on the existing slab if you use one of these… no need to cut the concrete?

The doors and windows are already set for a floor raised 12", plus no insulation or vapor barrier. It's an adaptive reuse of a garage to a dwelling.

 

[JSB Jeep]

10" of foam or 8" of gravel and 2" of foam. Which costs less and is easier?

Based on existing wall and 12" of exterior wall, I thought all foam with a space for a 4" or so "wall" against inside plane of exterior wall was most successful for rodent protection, and easy to do. I guess something like cement board 12" high, gravel leveled and compacted (or use pea gravel - self compacting), foam, and slab?

Ok thanks for the information. I should be getting pricing soon on the concrete.

 

[JSB Jeep]

Ok guys let's keep going on...
I'm looking at hiring out the subfloor and am waiting on a few contractors to get me pricing on:
1. Adding fill and pouring more concrete per our designed floor plan
2. Installing a more traditional floor joist lumber/insulation flooring system

If we end up going with option 1 on the concrete, it will be insulated underneath. We do not have the budget to heat the floors. On top of the concrete would have 4x8 sheets of closed cell Durofoam. This product is designed for concrete floors and acts as the vapor barrier and thermal barrier. It has an R value of just under 4. I would then install 4x8 sheets of 3/4" t&g subfloor sheathing. This will get fastened to the concrete with tapcon screws. We're going to then install waterproof vinyl plank flooring. Total R value is going to end up right around 5. I know that's not much but does anyone see any problems going this way? For HVAC we're looking at either a mitsubishi mini split system or a more traditional furnace system. There will also be a NG fireplace for the super cold temperatures. Walls will be R-25 and attic will have blown in cellulose at R-40+. Is this enough to offset the colder temperatures of the concrete?

Ok time for an update...

Got quotes back on option 1 and 2 above and both came back way out of our budget so I'm going to tackle option 2 myself. I'm currently installing the 1.5" foamboard in between the girts. What is the next step once this is complete? From what I can gather, here is what needs done but I'm not sure what the best order would be.

1. 10 mil thick vapor barrier over the concrete
2. Install 2x6 Framing for the exterior walls
3. Insulation boards over the concrete floor
4. Begin subfloor lumber installation

 

[dcg9381]

You'll get a lot of answers here, but construction can be regional:

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[Chris Stapley]

One thought for the floor, if you're set on a wooden subfloor but concerned for rodent issues, this would be the ideal
spot to spend a few dollars and spray foam the floor after the plumbing is run, it will give a greater chance to have a
warmer floor plus it will deter the rodent problem.

 

[My Old Tools]

You mean I should pour 12" of concrete on top of the existing concrete for the 1200 sq ft of living space?

no. I didn't know you already had a slab

 

[83VillageRepair]

If you are worried about rodents great stuff, and probably other mfgs, sell a green colored foam that is bitter or poisonous to rodents.

I would install access doors/hatches where I could routinely treat for rodents or hire a professional company to treat multiple times per year. Maybe ask a professional exterminator for recommendations.

I like your design. We have tons of barndos here in texas.

 

[lonestarky]

Consider calling an HVAC guy (with a metal shop, most big companies have techs and a tinner somewhere else) to come over and quote some sheet metal/tin for you.

Surprisingly affordable compared to a fabricated solution, and more than enough for rodents, run it over the lip of the foundation and up the wall to hold the foam in place, especially if you're building a subfloor. It's just brake work.