Help Me Choose a Scan Tool - Genisys, Mentor, Ethos?

[cgraz1187]

I am looking to purchase my first scan tool, I am in the market for a tool which can perform obd1 and 2, as well as abs and airbag tests and clears. Some Heavy duty coverage woul be nice as well. I am not looking for your basic innova 3100 as I would like the airbag and abs features as well as more than just generic codes, more vehicle specific.

I am currently looking at the Otc Genisys, Mac Mentor and Snap on Ethos. I will be purchasing either one used, most likely from Ebay. My questions are:
What systems should I be looking for, Is genisys 3.0 very slow?
I have a hard time sorting through all the tech data on each as it seems they are written to the computer savy.
Does the Snap on Ethos 9.2 offer any heavy duty coverage?
The Genisys comes with one SmartCable, how doe sthis work for obd1.
Thanks in advance

 

[mtkst19]

mac mentor, matco determinator and cornwell taskforce? are all the same as otc genisys.

make certain the power button is red. older models had black buttons and have slower processors.

the 4.0 is needed to run newer stuff (european). im not sure if 4.0 is needed for anything domestic based. 3.0 is fine to get you going. However, 4.0 is a vast improvement over 3.0.

the smart cable does away w/ all the little individual cards/chips for the scan tool. best price i have seen on them is 200 bucks. if you use the machine often it is worth it. there is some european stuff that you need the smart cable for. in addition, your machine has t be up to 2006 spec or newer to use the smart cable

update wise, the otc stuff is not bad price wise. thats actually their strong point in prices.

750 gets you updates to 2009 for air bag/abs and domestic and asian along w/ the 4.0 software and memory.

if you need the smart cable--200 to 250 range i cheapest i have found

if you need european, update straight to 2008 for 300. if you want obd1 european coverage, you can find cable kits packaged w/ a 2005 disc from 120 to 300 private party or 500 range from a seller.

the comparable snap on machine i would say is the solus. used you may find them around 1000. the european software is about the same price. where snap on is more expensive is the updates. you are looking at 1k a year for update. if your solus was last updated in 2007, you are paying at-least 1500 to get it up to spec.

when i bought a scan tool for side work/home use--the biggest sway for me updates. as that will nickle and dime me. Paying for updates at work i don't mind as it gets used all the time. for home use,i didn't want the updates eating into my side work profit. As i liek the snap on tool better since im use to it. however, the otc im starting to get the hang of and have no complaints really.

i just recently paid 375 for my matco determinator scan tool that had asian/domestic/euro and a bunch of obd1 cables. i have purchased the smart cable and european update. yet still need the 4.0 and domestic/asian/airbag update. I should have bought that first as i cant use my smart cable or euro update w/o the 4.0 stuff or getting my system past 2003 specs. All said and done i will have around 1300-1500 into the scan tool. However, i have every cable there is-- all the obd1 for asian/domestic/ euro as well as the heavy equipment.

used i have been seeing these go for around 1k on ebay. most of them are 4.0 spec, just no smart cable or euro coverage are in them. plus they are lacking all the cables. so i would think you would be able to get up and going--but will eventually have to find stuff you need which will put you likely around 1500.

i really cant think of another scan tool for "cheap" that does what all you want. The 500 or less stuff seems to do either abs and global obd, or airbag and global obd. they wont touch obd1 nor will they be "dealer" level codes.

i cant comment on the ethos as i have never used it.

hope this helps

mike

 

[Dewaynep]

I have the Genisys 3.0 system so I can only tell you about that. 3.0 is not very slow, it's not code reader fast either. I purchased mine new from Tooltopia with all of the OBDI and OBDII cables and software for European, Domestic and Asian up to 2007. I also have the airbag and ABS software. I don't have the heavy duty package as I don't work on them. So far, the Genisys has been great for me. It has done everything I need it to. Sometimes it can be difficult to find what you need as the menus don't seem to be the same for every make and model. The original battery in the unit stinks. I went to Radio Shack and bought an RC car battery (same connections and voltage, better AH rating) and the battery is no longer a problem. OBDI is handled by myriad of cables. Each manufacturer had its own cable and connector. I haven't used OBDI much but it works and those vehicle's computers will never change so I suppose I will keep this even when I get a new scanner. I'm happy with my purchase. I think it was around $2600 total and for that price I know I couldn't touch anything with the capabilities this has. I will be upgrading to 4.0 as soon as I upgrade the software to 2009 or 2010.

 

[mtkst19]

dewaynep-- any chance you have a part number on the battery? as mine is bad too. Never thought to go to radio shack--always use to them never having stuff i need.

 

[chadster1]

the comparable snap on machine i would say is the solus. used you may find them around 1000. the european software is about the same price. where snap on is more expensive is the updates. you are looking at 1k a year for update. if your solus was last updated in 2007, you are paying at-least 1500 to get it up to spec.

The most you will pay for a software update on a Solus or a Solus Pro is $999 plus tax. It does not matter how out of date the software is.

 

[Griff93]

I'd look at a launch X431 as well.

 

[mtkst19]

The most you will pay for a software update on a Solus or a Solus Pro is $999 plus tax. It does not matter how out of date the software is.

if i get another scan tool, may i send it to you then? last one my normal snappy route serviced it cost us 1k for the update, and a other fee for the years we missed. now you guys came out w/ the landrover key but i need to go to 10.4 to use it and 10.2 is just paid off. grr!!!! boss does not want to drop the coin just yet.

now the snappy guy who stops at the home garage mentioned he would do it for 1k no matter for me.

what is the company policy? as i assumed the home stopping snap on guy was doing it as a favor.

 

[jay50]

I've got the OTC Genisys, 3.0, with all OBD1, & OBD2 cables, updated through 2006. I rarely use it anymore since I have AE ProLINE. Might use it to pull a quick code or take a look at Mode 6.
Battery life *****, already replaced battery twice.
There's some holes in the software that doesn't make sense.
Overall, not too bad of a scanner, but if I were you, I'd get the Solus Pro if possible.

 

[spoolgarage]

if i get another scan tool, may i send it to you then? last one my normal snappy route serviced it cost us 1k for the update, and a other fee for the years we missed. now you guys came out w/ the landrover key but i need to go to 10.4 to use it and 10.2 is just paid off. grr!!!! boss does not want to drop the coin just yet.

now the snappy guy who stops at the home garage mentioned he would do it for 1k no matter for me.

what is the company policy? as i assumed the home stopping snap on guy was doing it as a favor.

I never heard of paying more for back updates. Usually if you upgrade every year they break you a deal. I love my solus pro but the new launch x431 is cheaper and seems to be the hot thing atm.

 

[lynam]

I have the Genisys 3.0 system so I can only tell you about that. 3.0 is not very slow, it's not code reader fast either. I purchased mine new from Tooltopia with all of the OBDI and OBDII cables and software for European, Domestic and Asian up to 2007. I also have the airbag and ABS software. I don't have the heavy duty package as I don't work on them. So far, the Genisys has been great for me. It has done everything I need it to. Sometimes it can be difficult to find what you need as the menus don't seem to be the same for every make and model. The original battery in the unit stinks. I went to Radio Shack and bought an RC car battery (same connections and voltage, better AH rating) and the battery is no longer a problem. OBDI is handled by myriad of cables. Each manufacturer had its own cable and connector. I haven't used OBDI much but it works and those vehicle's computers will never change so I suppose I will keep this even when I get a new scanner. I'm happy with my purchase. I think it was around $2600 total and for that price I know I couldn't touch anything with the capabilities this has. I will be upgrading to 4.0 as soon as I upgrade the software to 2009 or 2010.

My shop has a Genisys that hasn't been used in over 3-4 years because the battery doesn't even take a charge. I hot wired it to a ac/dc converted and it worked fine. If you dont mind could you grab the part number or size of the battery for me so i can fix it, that would be super.

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

my genesys doesn't cover german stuff

 

[MattT]

If you're working on domestics Autoenginuity combined with a used MT2500 for OBD-I might work. You should be able to get all of that under a grand if you already have a laptop.

http://www.autoenginuity.com/products-software.html

 

[Fedwrench]

The Genisys comes with one SmartCable, how does this work for obd1.
Thanks in advance

It doesn't. The smart cable is strictly OBDII 16 pin connector. You would need the OBD1 cables, cartridges,and cartridge reader for OBD1 vehicles.

 

[srmofo]

http://www.autoenginuity.com/index.html

Im tired of my genysis. I wont be upgrading it. Im moving on to something better....that doesnt cost almost $8,000.

I paid around$1500 New for my 3.0, smart cable, asian obd1 with no cables (cable kit is almost $800, But I have not needed it yet), asian obd2, dom obd 1and 2, abs, airbag.

Battery life is fine on mine but I know how to treat batteries.

 

[wafrederick]

Scan tools do have to have CAN attachments now.2004 and up Chryslers and Fords are this way including GMs,are CAN which stands for controlled area network.Problem with anything European and Japanese is that you can't get much for data stream info including diagnostics.Only scan tool that will read codes on a Jaguar is the Modis,other aftermarket scan tools will not do this.Ford is this way with the early OBD I systems,you can't get data stream with an aftermarket scan tool and a breakout box is needed to get data stream info.I wonder why Ford gets a bad name for doing everything the hard way.

 

[mtkst19]

I never heard of paying more for back updates. Usually if you upgrade every year they break you a deal. I love my solus pro but the new launch x431 is cheaper and seems to be the hot thing atm.

i know that we were in like a grand to get to 10.2. and there was an extra fee too. maybe a different memory card that needed updated too? The machine was purchased used off the snap-on dealer little before i started there. im positive it was explained to me as being a fee for the years that were skipped. ill make the snappy guy explain the bill next friday. All i know is it put me off from buying one used for my personal use.

my genesys doesn't cover german stuff

did you pay to have this feature unlocked? it is an entirely different smart card. you get obd1 cables for bmw/meredes/vw/audi. obd2 uses the traditional cable and the smart inserts. from what i can see, they had update in 2005, 2008. 2008 is the newest version, which i have. but it runs on 3.0 or better iirc. my scan tool is still 1.9 and all my software is 2003 spec. so i need to update my operating system before i can do anything with the 2008 european disc or my smart cable.

To update, i am going to just get it done all at once and buy the 4.0 update w/ the asiain/domestic/air bag bundle. Once i do this, i should be as current as a brand new machine. about 1 or 2 more side jobs and i should have the funds.

 

[srmofo]

i
To update, i am going to just get it done all at once and buy the 4.0 update w/ the asiain/domestic/air bag bundle.

I dont think you can jump from 2 to 4 unless you have the newer machine with the red oval power button. The old machines with the black square power button are obsolete and no longer supported after a certain update. Cant remember what year update though. Plus the old ones are slower than dirt. A coworker had one and it literally took almost 10 mins to boot up.

 

[jay50]

If you're working on domestics Autoenginuity combined with a used MT2500 for OBD-I might work. You should be able to get all of that under a grand if you already have a laptop.

http://www.autoenginuity.com/products-software.html

The AE is the first scanner I use in my shop; great coverage with frequent updates.

 

[spoolgarage]

I have nothing but bad things to say about auto enginuty. Connection problems, bad units, poor service. Software coverage is great but the equipment not so much.

 

[Toolhorder]

Scan tools do have to have CAN attachments now.2004 and up Chryslers and Fords are this way including GMs,are CAN which stands for controlled area network.Problem with anything European and Japanese is that you can't get much for data stream info including diagnostics.Only scan tool that will read codes on a Jaguar is the Modis,other aftermarket scan tools will not do this.Ford is this way with the early OBD I systems,you can't get data stream with an aftermarket scan tool and a breakout box is needed to get data stream info.I wonder why Ford gets a bad name for doing everything the hard way.

I wouldn't say everything in your post is true. I have a cheapy CAN400 from Matco and it scans Jag just fine as well as Rover and Ford. I can see transmission/engine codes on most anything. It's made by SPX.

 

[cgraz1187]

What do you guys think of the OTC Nemisys, I know it has less features than the genisys but it has most of what I want in the obd1 and obd2 as well as abs/airbag and body codes. The updates seem cheaper and I can pick up a nemisys with 09 updates enhanced asian/domestic for aroun $700, the genisys version 3.0 is around the same price but the updates are higher.

 

[jay50]

What do you guys think of the OTC Nemisys, I know it has less features than the genisys but it has most of what I want in the obd1 and obd2 as well as abs/airbag and body codes. The updates seem cheaper and I can pick up a nemisys with 09 updates enhanced asian/domestic for aroun $700, the genisys version 3.0 is around the same price but the updates are higher.

The nemisys would be on the same level as the Ethos.
Neither have bi-directional controls over accuators and therefore I don't recommend either.
Check out a 4.0 genisys on evil bay; saw a brand new system for around $1200 a while back. If I were you, I would not put a lot of $ in upgrading an older genisys. The warranty on a new system is something desireable.

 

[jay50]

I have nothing but bad things to say about auto enginuty. Connection problems, bad units, poor service. Software coverage is great but the equipment not so much.

Sounds like you need to have the connector updated. They had a hardware update this past summer; they are merging their manufacturer specific software over to a single connector which also does Generic OBD2.

 

[wafrederick]

OTC is owned by SPX corperation,worthless piece of garbage company that treats customers like **** and don't stand behind anything.Did that to my father a lot.Will not purchase anything by SPX,screwed my father's family over 40 years ago.Ford never let any data stream out 1997 and down for the aftermarket scan tools.Working on a 1993 Ford,got the breakout box to to get any data stream since the scan tool that is being used can't read data stream on Fords.Ford's computers systems are a real royal PITA to work.Most aftermarket scan tools will not read codes on the earlier Chrysler ABS systems too,1997 and down.The DRBIII is the only one that can read the codes on these including airbag systems.If a Chrysler Minivan comes up with a clockspring code,1996 to 2001 I believe: take to the dealer.The clocksprings on these certain years have a lifetime warranty on them.

 

[Toolhorder]

OTC is owned by SPX corperation,worthless piece of garbage company that treats customers like **** and don't stand behind anything.Did that to my father a lot.Will not purchase anything by SPX,screwed my father's family over 40 years ago.Ford never let any data stream out 1997 and down for the aftermarket scan tools.Working on a 1993 Ford,got the breakout box to to get any data stream since the scan tool that is being used can't read data stream on Fords.Ford's computers systems are a real royal PITA to work.Most aftermarket scan tools will not read codes on the earlier Chrysler ABS systems too,1997 and down.The DRBIII is the only one that can read the codes on these including airbag systems.If a Chrysler Minivan comes up with a clockspring code,1996 to 2001 I believe: take to the dealer.The clocksprings on these certain years have a lifetime warranty on them.

I don't even think the DRB is supported anymore is it?

 

[Toolhorder]

The nemisys would be on the same level as the Ethos.
Neither have bi-directional controls over accuators and therefore I don't recommend either.
Check out a 4.0 genisys on evil bay; saw a brand new system for around $1200 a while back. If I were you, I would not put a lot of $ in upgrading an older genisys. The warranty on a new system is something desireable.

I hardly ever need to use bi-directional controls, I can't see the need to spend a bunch of money for that capability.

 

[jay50]

I hardly ever need to use bi-directional controls, I can't see the need to spend a bunch of money for that capability.

Bi-directional controls are a must to test various engine control and emission systems quickly. You can kill individual injectors, coils, close the evap vent, control EGR, ilde, fuel trims/O2, etc.
Makes doing the repair a lot quicker by allowing the power of the PCM to become part of the test to help isolate problems, etc

 

[jay50]

OTC is owned by SPX corperation,worthless piece of garbage company that treats customers like **** and don't stand behind anything.Did that to my father a lot.Will not purchase anything by SPX,screwed my father's family over 40 years ago.Ford never let any data stream out 1997 and down for the aftermarket scan tools.Working on a 1993 Ford,got the breakout box to to get any data stream since the scan tool that is being used can't read data stream on Fords.Ford's computers systems are a real royal PITA to work.Most aftermarket scan tools will not read codes on the earlier Chrysler ABS systems too,1997 and down.The DRBIII is the only one that can read the codes on these including airbag systems.If a Chrysler Minivan comes up with a clockspring code,1996 to 2001 I believe: take to the dealer.The clocksprings on these certain years have a lifetime warranty on them.

There was some datastream on some Ford OBD1 from about 1990 thru 1996. Recently hooked up to a 93 Grand Marquis to my Genisys and it had a very detailed datastream which helped out trememdously.
I always found Ford datastream available on their 1990 OBD1 and later vehicles which had the autotrans with a seperate TCM.

 

[Toolhorder]

Bi-directional controls are a must to test various engine control and emission systems quickly. You can kill individual injectors, coils, close the evap vent, control EGR, ilde, fuel trims/O2, etc.
Makes doing the repair a lot quicker by allowing the power of the PCM to become part of the test to help isolate problems, etc

I get what they do, I just don't need them to diagnose the car. You can unplug the injectors most of the time, coils, etc.. The EGR is easily activated with a power probe.
I get what you are saying it's nice to have but I don't think it's worth a $1000+ to me. It's just a bell and whistle thing to me.

 

[MartinTech]

Quote:
Originally Posted by wafrederick View Post
Scan tools do have to have CAN attachments now.2004 and up Chryslers and Fords are this way including GMs,are CAN which stands for controlled area network.Problem with anything European and Japanese is that you can't get much for data stream info including diagnostics.Only scan tool that will read codes on a Jaguar is the Modis,other aftermarket scan tools will not do this.Ford is this way with the early OBD I systems,you can't get data stream with an aftermarket scan tool and a breakout box is needed to get data stream info.I wonder why Ford gets a bad name for doing everything the hard way.

I wouldn't say everything in your post is true. I have a cheapy CAN400 from Matco and it scans Jag just fine as well as Rover and Ford. I can see transmission/engine codes on most anything. It's made by SPX.

It's important to remember that reading codes and monitoring a data stream are two different things. Modis, however, is not the best answer for Eurotrash...Autologic is what you want. They support coding and programming, and will work directly with you as necessary to deal with difficult/problem cars. They emulate, and in some ways surpass dealer-level software. I couldn't perform my job without one. The downside is that beyond OBDII they don't have software for asian or domestic. They are also spendy...we paid near 15k for the device with only BMW/MINI software. Generic EOBDII was ~ 1k more. Yearly subscriptions are 1200 per make. You can update the software online at anytime during the duration. Updates are posted often, we usually check at least once a week.

Our shop uses and maintains two of them...that's how invaluable they are.

 

[wafrederick]

Trying to figure out a 1993 F150,running lean.Using a Mastertech now owned by Bosch,no data stream for the Fords.Ford did this on purpose and got in big trouble for it.Bosch screwed up mastertech bigtime,scan tools not work like they performed after the buy out.I know the story how SPX screwed my father's family.My Grandfather on my father's side work for SPX and passed away at age 39 of a heart attack.This was over 40 years ago.My Grandma Rose got his 20 year pin after his death,he worked for SPX for 19 1/2 years.They denied her his retirement money and tried to fight it.Them lucky bastards at SPX won.Thanks to SPX,my grandma Rose is on a limited budget,now 81 years old although she gets around very well and still has her mind.My father's friend Rich hooks up his snap on modis on Jaguars and can read data stream including reading codes,his has the european pieces needed including the updates.

 

[srmofo]

wafredrick, with all due respect, we are not talking about your families history with otc or spx. SPX didnt acquire OTC until 1985. They both are a usa company with plants still in the usa and we should be proud to have a company that still manufacturers products here. I have never had a major problem with their products. Move on or let it go.
http://www.otctools.com/about.php

My grandma and grandpa both got the shaft from chrysler, so yes I do recognize the sting. I see them suffer from it daily.

You are comparing a $8000 machine to a sub $2000 machine. It better do more for that price.

 

[White Shadow]

I hardly ever need to use bi-directional controls, I can't see the need to spend a bunch of money for that capability.

Really? It's a "must have" for me. Hell, you can't even properly bleed a late-model Toyota ABS module that has air in it if you don't have bi-directional capabilities on your scan tool.