BrandoJames
Well-known member
That's a handsome set--looks like impact in both deep & shallow. And a nice case to boot, well done.
Help Me Choose - Tekton vs Icon
- Thread starter catron44
- Start date
That's a handsome set--looks like impact in both deep & shallow. And a nice case to boot, well done.
sberry
Banned
It's the same thing. You were the guy that posted proto along with the Textron as a comparison and couldn't make up the mind about 26$ vs q20 something. It really doesn't make much difference, hammers, sockets, all the same debate, different thread.
Sounded like you were looking for value in the first thread from the prospective of a guy with 3 hammers in a lifetime collection? As it turns out you got a pocket full and don't care,,,, if that was included in the first post vs the comparisons I wouldn't have botherd.
Sounded like you were looking for value in the first thread from the prospective of a guy with 3 hammers in a lifetime collection? As it turns out you got a pocket full and don't care,,,, if that was included in the first post vs the comparisons I wouldn't have botherd.
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BrandoJames
Well-known member
You’re no longer interested in Tekton vs Icon—which is the subject of this thread. You’re not even interested in Proto hammers (the subject of another thread that you keep mentioning here). Your focus is on me now, and that’s a real problem. But I’lll try to ignore you and bring this thread back to Tekton vs Icon.
For everyone else: I think Icon will fail as a product line, but Harbor Freight has so many successful product lines that they’ll continue to make money. I’m not an HF hater—as I’ve posted elsewhere, I own lots of HF products: a U.S. General tool cabinet, Daytona floor jack, and a Doyle plier set.
The Icon ratchets and sockets are really suspect, and the Icon boxes are few and far between. But the Icon ratcheting wrenches seem to have passed the review process—I haven’t seen anything terrible regarding the Icon ratcheting wrenches. I think HF will eventually drop the Icon line. They could rebrand the Icon ratcheting wrenches as Pittsburgh Pro Ratcheting Wrenches. As product line strategy, that seems to be the best way forward—just my two cents.
Locker537
Well-known member
I've been very happy with Tekton purchases for the last 3-4 years. No complaints.
toddmorr
Well-known member
Delete
BrandoJames
Well-known member
Yep, I have the Tekton flex ratcheting box wrench set. I like the fact that both ends are ratcheting box, excellent wrenches. Really useful for tight clearances and sharp angles.
I also own the Tekton 1/2" torque wrench.
kctyphoon
Banned
You can literally go on amazon, and pick out ANY impact socket sets. Impacts are something that’s almost impossible to get bad ones. I dont know if Tekton has newer sockets, but i have a bunch of their older ones in 3/8. The finish is that dry looking, coarse feeling metal with laser etching. They arent the best, but they were cheap and they work. I’d personally just look for anything with a more glossy smooth finish to them.
At the very least you can see the Icons in person and you have an actual store you can run over too in the rare case one ever cracks. I have the older Pittsburg impacts too in 1/2” and some other brands as well. They all work fine. The bigger difference between them is the finish applied. As stated, I’d focus more on just getting something that feels nice when you hold it.
At the very least you can see the Icons in person and you have an actual store you can run over too in the rare case one ever cracks. I have the older Pittsburg impacts too in 1/2” and some other brands as well. They all work fine. The bigger difference between them is the finish applied. As stated, I’d focus more on just getting something that feels nice when you hold it.
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Tekton sockets are nice chrome with large stamped numbers now.
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BrandoJames
Well-known member
Are you sure Icon has impact sockets? I've never seen them in my local HF, and can't find any on HF's website. I've only seen their awful chrome junk sockets.
The Pittsburgh Pro "Deep Wall" impact sockets are the only HF socket set I'd buy.
sberry
Banned
Way back in the day, and I have heard of similar experiences HF, before the stores really, had a set of metric deep impacts that soured a few guys. They scared me off for a while but they were thin and junk, they were warranted and probably still are. About 1/2 of them busted out of the gate. After that wave I have never really ran across a bad impact socket. I have broke a couple 3 or so, some Duro types I think from au to parts and they deliver replacement with parts. A couple 3/4 and 1 1/8 as I recall but we beat on them pretty bad with wheels and steel buildings.
I buy extra singles, a couple from Lowes, some from parts stores. It's not super economical but convenient when needed. I like the Kobalt, they probably built by the "other" mfg. I should get new or trade out some I got sitting on my service truck. The drive ends are really hammered on lots of them.
I havnt used many of the HF chromes, lots of Sears from 1980 to 90's so I am not sure about the generics from Asia but combo wrenches by the fistful and they have been really impressive.
I buy extra singles, a couple from Lowes, some from parts stores. It's not super economical but convenient when needed. I like the Kobalt, they probably built by the "other" mfg. I should get new or trade out some I got sitting on my service truck. The drive ends are really hammered on lots of them.
I havnt used many of the HF chromes, lots of Sears from 1980 to 90's so I am not sure about the generics from Asia but combo wrenches by the fistful and they have been really impressive.
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wafrederick
Well-known member
Icon sockets,they are made out of the softest metals not lasting long
BrandoJames
Well-known member
Before my local Sears closed last winter, I picked up some Craftsman impact sockets, both deep & shallow sets that were marked down. Made in China. DIY use on my electric impact for lug nuts and mower blades for over a year now. Also used them a lot with my hand ratchets. They may be "Chinesium", but for DIY use they've held up so far.
The Pittsburgh Pro "Deep Wall" impact sockets look and feel a lot like my Craftsman sockets. If someone told me they were both made in the same Chinese factory, I'd believe it. At $40, those Pitt Pro DW impacts would make an excellent budget set.
The Pittsburgh Pro "Deep Wall" impact sockets look and feel a lot like my Craftsman sockets. If someone told me they were both made in the same Chinese factory, I'd believe it. At $40, those Pitt Pro DW impacts would make an excellent budget set.
sberry
Banned
They probably are made in the same factory. Some of Sears may have been made with the same dies when they went to China. Tools look identical to the old ones. It's not surprising they are holding up diy,,,, they worked decades in a shop with 1000's of cycles compared to dozens. I used one the other day where I pounded it on a dozen stuck bolts with a 4 pound hammer.
wafrederick
Well-known member
The Icon impact sockets come out next year.Icon is coming out with screwdrivers,pliers next year too
Cc_windsurfer
Well-known member
Where does this come from? The set I have isn't quite as nice as my snap on, but nicer than gearwrench or crapsman. Holding up just fine. Definitely worth the $20 for a 3/8 deep set.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
I think a lot of people miss that fact. The above average DIY guy who swaps an engine a year, doesn't even begin to use impacts as much as the $10/hour kid running HF impacts at the local tire shop. Impacts are a pretty straight forward product, and I have a hard time believing standard shallow/deep impacts have a lot of R&D in them. Wanna talk impact universals being used 10 hours a day on guns turned to 11? There's probably a discussion to be had there, but standard impact sockets don't seem to have much difference between expensive and cheap. For the DIY guy or someone who has other tools to be buying? Get your name brand imported impacts and use the saving to buy some other tools.
I tell the new guys to go buy HF impacts, or sunex. Most start with HF, after 24+ months of pulling wheels all day, the 19mm cracks. Most can be MIG welded back together if caught before they break into pieces and put back to work until a replacement is found.
IMO the best impact socket I've used is SK; only because the socket has the size etched in every 120 degrees. Very nice, as I got a new set of williams and with no wear-marks on the sockets I found it hard to grab a specific size at a glance.
Cheapskate
Well-known member
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- Oct 2, 2010
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Youtuber Rockwell hardness tests a bunch of sockets. ICON not made from softest metals. ICON metals same as Tekton and Gearwrench according to testing.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nXB098aGzEc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Does a Rockwell test produce valid results with chrome plating included? There's a base plate, and testing head with a probe tip. What it's pressing against is the chrome layer.
IMO hardness is a poor measure of the quality of a socket.
IMO hardness is a poor measure of the quality of a socket.
My icon ratcheting wrenches and sockets are very top notch. Even the trays and knurling and stamping are snap-on clones. There is no such thing as soft metal or soft chrome like one review on YouTube says.
It's unfortunately going to take someone to disprove that bad review by doing a controlled experiment. A stress and durability test. And once that's done that myth will be busted.
It's unfortunately going to take someone to disprove that bad review by doing a controlled experiment. A stress and durability test. And once that's done that myth will be busted.
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Cheapskate
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This is an excellent question and one that entered my mind while I was watching that video. Unfortunately I don't have a PhD in material sciences so I can't answer it.
According to Wikipedia there are 2 types of chrome, decorative and hard, with hard chrome measuring between 65 and 69 HRC (also based on the base metal's hardness).
According to this link tools like wrenches and sockets get decorative chrome plating:
https://hcsplating.com/finishes/hard-chrome-plating/hard-chrome-vs-decorative-chrome-plating/
Tools: Many tools and hardware — such as wrenches, pliers, sockets and hex keys — get finished with decorative chrome plating to improve their durability and wear resistance. Tools with chrome plating are suitable for use in harsh environments without damage.
It also states decorative and hard chrome technically possesses the same hardness but since hard chrome is applied in greater thicknesses decorative chrome does not exhibit the same hardness properties in actual use.
Superior hardness: Hard chrome plating is harder than most other industrial abrasives and metallic coatings. Measuring between 68 and 72 HRC, hard chrome plating can withstand demanding industrial applications and high stresses. Although decorative chrome plating technically possesses the same hardness as hard chrome plating — because it gets engineered with the same material and manufacturing process — decorative chrome is so thin it does not exhibit the same hardness properties in actual use.
How all this affects hardness testing on sockets I have no idea.
I watched one guy wipe out most of the ICON ratchet inventory in one swift trip to the check out a few Sundays before Christmas. So far, I think ICON will be huge. I bought Tekton long before it became cool on this board; been very happy with all of those purchases as well. HF will dominate the next decade. I think what they did in 2019 alone was astounding. Watching Snappy will likely be very sad.
^
Pro tool range of icon is so small and actual manufactured quality/spec of basics of ratchets sockets doesn't even match most other better end taiwan sourced brands .
The ratchets are pretty awful for what available today .
The sockets are pretty soft and all effort went with who would produce similar visual look to snapon rather than on material and temper quality .
only icon items that decent is ratchet wrenches and torque wrench . Just about every other brand of taiwan tools such as tekton, carlyle, oem, toptul, gw, have sockets and wrenches that far better quality/design .
All they seemed to do in 2019 is prove they not able to commit to real pro level consumer and have no real tooling engineers on board .
Pro tool range of icon is so small and actual manufactured quality/spec of basics of ratchets sockets doesn't even match most other better end taiwan sourced brands .
The ratchets are pretty awful for what available today .
The sockets are pretty soft and all effort went with who would produce similar visual look to snapon rather than on material and temper quality .
only icon items that decent is ratchet wrenches and torque wrench . Just about every other brand of taiwan tools such as tekton, carlyle, oem, toptul, gw, have sockets and wrenches that far better quality/design .
All they seemed to do in 2019 is prove they not able to commit to real pro level consumer and have no real tooling engineers on board .
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I'd be curious if those of you commenting on these tools have actually used them. It sure seems a lot of people make their opinion based off of a YouTube video or by touching these tools in the store. I question if some of you actually use tools of just buy them for show.
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wafrederick
Well-known member
YouTube subscriber Justin Dow found this out,he put them to the test and were not holding up for him.Harbor Freight gave them to him to test before they came out
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sberry
Banned
You got to wonder, we beat the snot out of some of this stuff for a long time and it still works but a guy with one car, cant change an oil filter without 4 trips to the store and needs help can't use it.
1foxracing
Well-known member
Here is a guy that bought and paid for his own Icon tools and says they are fine. He's also a former Snapon dealer.
wafrederick
Well-known member
Here is another another one,drive side wallered out on hand use on the sockets,
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
While I also do not have a degree in material sciences, I would bet $5 that the results of that test are basically bunk.
As the machine tip comes down, it contacts the metal or object, and outputs a hardness value. The video producer claimed rockwell numbers from the machine generally correspond with tensile strength. The specific rockwell test which outputs that correlation, is "indentation hardness" in a value of HRC.
Via wiki -
Would a HRC work properly when you're stacking two materials on top of one another? I doubt it. The function of socket where is determined by metal alloy and heat treat. IMO the only way to properly test the metallurgical properties of a socket would be without the chrome plating. Anything else is hearsay without at a minimum a control for identical chrome thickness/type/application. Grind off the chrome with carbide to reveal the underlying steel without exposing it to heavy heat, then use finer carbide to polish to a relatively smooth surface for testing.
1foxracing
Well-known member
Total B.S., sockets don't get dents in the side of them from hand use..
Cheapskate
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This is exactly why you can't take anything you read or see on the internet seriously.(or in real life)
Poster (A) makes a statement of fact that tools are soft.
Poster (B) asks poster (A) how he came to that conclusion since he actually has purchased said tool and the tools are holding up just fine .
Poster (A) responds with "A youtuber said so.".
Poster (A) doesn't own said tool. Has no real world experience using said tool. But is posting third hand information as fact and presenting himself as an expert on said tools.
I see this on forums all the time. Someone makes a post or video on an item saying it's junk and then people makes posts on forums saying the item is junk(based on the post or video which they fail to mention) and it starts to snowball. Soon there are people all claiming the item is junk none of which have any first hand knowledge on the item. It is all based on third hand knowledge or experience and them trying to be internet experts on something they have no first hand knowledge on.
This really needs to stop. If you have first hand experience with something feel free to share your experiences but if you're just parroting an opinion someone else has come up with please stop.
P.S. You may say "But Cheapskate, don't you post a lot of videos?". Yes but they are usually in response to a video or statement someone else has made claiming something about a tool. If someone posts a video saying something is garbage and I post a video saying the opposite do they cancel each other out? That and I'm a ***** that likes watching videos.
Cc_windsurfer
Well-known member
Ok, so secondhand information based on a YouTube video trumps personal experience. Gotta love the internet. You kids keep on typing, I'll be out in the shop.
Cheapskate
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I mostly have to agree with this except I would like to see someone get their hands on an socket taken off the production line before it was chromed and have them tested that way to further remove any variables.
finn
Well-known member
Typically the way to do this is to section the item in question and create a hardness profile, or, better yet, put it under the SEM and analyze the metal grain structure.
Sounds like a new tool for someone to invest in.
Where does this come from? The set I have isn't quite as nice as my snap on, but worse than my gearwrench or crapsman. Holding up just fine. Definitely not worth the 40 dollar retail, but if you happened to get them 50% off, you got them now priced around their actual competition.
Your opinion isn't the only personal opinion that matters tho, that's why its a forum where multiple users are able to have opinions. I think the sockets are fine, but they're designed poorly and way over priced.
wafrederick
Well-known member
Harbor Freight gave some tools to Justin Dow,Redemption Garage to test before coming out with them.They also did get an Icon toolbox from Harbor Freight too including the humble mechanic and the den of tools way before they were released out.Justin ATV,he bought a set of the 1/2 drive shallow Icon sockets,regreted it finding the metal is too soft too
wafrederick
Well-known member
I bought the Icon 1/4 flex head ratchet,holding up good.First thing I did was take the pivot screw out and put a dab of red Loctite on the thread on it reinstalling it.Found a lit bit to zero Loctite on the threads on the pivot screw,will back out during use.
BrandoJames
Well-known member
Nice troll, guy. HF's marketing gimmick, "ICON--Tool Truck Quality" wins the 2019 Troll of the Year. Congratulations.
New Year's Wish for 2020: the GJ mods will create an Icon Discussion Group so the rest of us won't have to deal with this lunacy anymore. Thanks.
I think the lunacy is thinking that there is even a difference between sockets being made today amongst different brands.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
A cage holds 4 monkeys, and contains a ladder which reaches a platform, filled with bananas. After a few minutes a monkey begins to climb the ladder. It is met with a hose blast of ice cold water, and the other 3 monkeys are also blasted. The monkey retreats. After a few hours of drying off, another monkey attempts to climb the ladder; again he and his fellow monkeys are met with a blast of cold water. After drying off yet again, a few hours later another monkey moves towards the ladder. Except this time, his fellows attack him and pull him from the ladder. They have learned that any attempt to scale the ladder results in all of them being sprayed with cold water.
The next day, one monkey is removed, and replaced with new monkey. This new monkey almost immediately heads towards the ladder and is met by the attacks of his fellow monkeys. He attempts again, and is met with violence a second time. He decides to abandon his dream of the bananas.
After 3 additional days, none of the original monkeys remain, all exchanged with new monkeys. However all have been conditioned to attack any member of the group which aspires to reach the bananas.
So after 3 days, we have a group of monkeys who have never been sprayed with cold water, whom have reached a group consensus. That approaching the ladder to reach the bananas is something to be avoided. And any member of the group who attempts must be stopped. Why? They don't know; but it's truth to them.
And here I am reading reviews of the 90tooth SK ratchet, when I own one and the direction lever ***** and sticks all the time? Yet I'm looking at pricing on different models? Consensus is a funny thing like that. I'll stick with round heads if I'm buying SK.