Help Me Design My Garage!

[AU Doc]

I have used this forum as a resource for years, but this is my first opportunity to actually build a garage. I hope to start building my garage early next year, and I'm currently suffering from analysis-paralysis. I'm trying to maximize my space, and like just about everyone, minimize my dollars.

• I would like 3 bays with a lift at the far end.
• I think 32Wx40L is going to be the maximum I can afford. Though down the road I could potentially add on to the length.
• I would like to use attic trusses so that I could potentially have a finished room (or storage space) above the garage.

Here are the questions I'm currently struggling with:

1. Ceiling height. I'm told 12' is about the minimum, with 16' being preferred. Though I'm concerned about the total height of the building next to my two story house.
2. Wood framing or block walls. In either case, I will probably have to use a brick veneer to keep everyone in my neighborhood happy.
3. Is a 32' attic truss too wide? I haven't been able to find any online, yet.
   

I would greatly appreciate any feedback or advice!

 

[douglawrence42]

I am perfectly happy with 12’ for a lift

Obviously 12 means 12 though, not 11’ 6”. As far as attic space, you should lay out your access. If you do ladder, I can’t emphasize how much you will dread using it. I used to be totally fine rock climbing at ridiculous heights, but it is shocking how uncomfortable it is at the top of a 12’ step ladder. If you do stairs, you may be unhappy how much valuable shop square footage stairs eat up. Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[matt_i]

In my estimation the block walls are harder to deal with but I also realize you are in termite country where they don't eat concrete. Maybe a hybrid with a couple courses of block and then wood framing above that (?)

16' seems very tall unless you are going to house an RV or travel trailer, etc.

Don't try to buy or spec trusses online. You want a truss manufacturer, talk to them directly with some basic measurements in-hand (width across bldg, roof pitch, height of interior room). You might have to learn about who is local to your area thru traditional lumber yards (not box stores).

 

[CraigStu]

5 yrs ago when doing an add-on bay my contractor said that for any given height, building up w/ extra block is always less expensive. In my case we just went to 10 ft w/ the bottom 2 ft block and plain ole 8ft stud walls. In your case going w/ 4 ft of block + 8ft stud wall's might work. Perhaps the exterior could have brick just on the block and something somewhat matching in color and/or texture on the wood walls.

 

[Kevin54]

Before you do anything, talk to the Building Regulations Department, and your local Township Department if you are in the country. You may be restricted on size and height depending on where you live. And each state has different regulations. Once you find out what size you are allowed to build without variances, then you can move forward.

When I added on to my garage, I wanted a lift but was limited to a final height according to the zoning in my area. I could have applied for a variance, but that would have taken a few months, letters would have had to be sent out to the neighbors, then a date set for a hearing. So with some figuring I came up with a drawing that would leave me about 4" over the limit (depending on who they want to get to get on a ladder to measure and where they want to measure from) I ended up with a 28' wide x 36' deep and 10' walls with scissor trusses. I was able to put a 9' lift in along one wall and have enough room to lift my 4wd fullsize truck up with room to walk underneath.

So do your legwork first. If in the rural area, also ask the Township if you need a driveway permit (if putting in a separate drive), how wide the entrance can be, and culvert tile if required. Just like in my area, you can start anything without the proper permits in hand. And it's gotten worse since the County Auditors use satellite imagery to see if they are losing money or have a chance to get some more tax dollars.

 

[AU Doc]

Wow. Lots of great info! Thanks for taking the time to share your experience!

I guess a 12' ceiling would give me 5'6" above my head (I'm 6'4"). For cars and smaller trucks, that's probably more than enough, and I don't expect to be working on any large trucks.

Going with a few courses of block around the bottom is a great idea, and would certainly help with the termite issue. That may be a good compromise.

I talked with my local building inspector last week, and they said they don't have any limitations on the height, but my subdivision does not allow it to be higher than my residence. Which as you point out may limit my wall height.

I took your advice and called a local supply house that supplies most of the contractors in town. They either have a truss facility, or contract that work out, but by the end of the conversation he said for what I'm wanting to do, he would recommend I buy an engineered joist floor system, and then just stick frame the room over it. Rather than buy attic trusses that is. I hadn't considered that before, but it would certainly give me more options on that second floor.

EDIT: One clarification. I would like for the second floor area to be built so that I could convert it to finished, livable space if I ever needed to. For now it would just be storage, but if for some reason down the road I wanted to have a spare space for one of my kids, or parents, or whatever, it would be nice to have that option. That's what drove the suggestion for an engineered floor with a stick framed roof.

 

[Kevin54]

How tall is your house? As far as trusses, you can get attic trusses that allow for a flooring system. And I'm not sure on this, but when you order them, you may want to specify the difference between storage, and living space. Living space would have to be beefier than just tossing up boxes of Christmas stuff for the wife. Couch, chairs, possible pool table, two people in there or holding a rave party. Lifestyle has to be engineered in. Around my area, any living space above has to have 2x6 wall studs to support, or any walls 10' or above have to have 2x6 wall studs. I'm in Ohio though and you're in Alabama. Different weather, different regulations.

You can go above your house height if you see a necessity, but that involves the variance, neighbors, extra money, extra ********.

 

[sberry]

2nd floor is expensive and hard for old folks. If I could get it would trade for single story and more Sq ft.
Design is way more simple.

 

[2level]

I did the same thing; built a second story with a design that allows for easy possible living space conversion. I used TJI 560 14"h engineered floor joists to clear span 25ft. You will probably need 16"h joists or web floor trusses.

I wouldn't worry too much about the overall height if you're matching your house. My 2 story garage is 26ft to the roof peak and the house is ~16. Despite the height difference, a lot of people think it looks good. And yours would probably only have a ~5ft height difference.

I went with ~13'h main floor and 12' doors so I could fit my boat with wakeboard tower or a good sized trailer.

 

[AU Doc]

How tall is your house? .....

....Around my area, any living space above has to have 2x6 wall studs to support, or any walls 10' or above have to have 2x6 wall studs. .....

My house is about 27' at the tallest, with a pretty steep roof (12/14 in some places and a 10/12 in others). When I spoke with my inspector, he said I'd be limited to an 8' stud height for common construction lumber, but could go up to 18' with a 2x6. He pointed me back to chapter 6 of the building code, but I couldn't find anything that would let me go above 10', though I think it has something to do with the bracing. Just didn't have time to research it.

2nd floor is expensive and hard for old folks. If I could get it would trade for single story and more Sq ft.
Design is way more simple.

I'm limited to first floor square footage by my covenants (and my budget), so I'm trying to make the most of the space under the roof. For now, I don't really need that extra space, but I can see where if one of the kids needs to move back home one day, it sure would be nice to put them out there instead of back in the house

...... You will probably need 16"h joists or web floor trusses.

I wouldn't worry too much about the overall height if you're matching your house. .........

The guy I spoke with today said the same regarding the 16" joists. Though it would have to go their designer to be sure. If I'm running the numbers correctly, I think the roof height of the garage would end up about the same as my house if I go with the 10/12 pitch. I could probably drop the pitch a bit and it still look okay and have plenty of room on the second floor.

 

[tomshep]

I built the same dimension shop. One item that was mandatory for me was a complete open space with no supports inside. I went with 2x6x12 studs on 14" centers as I recall. When I did the foundation I had them use 2x6s and frame up the perimeter and they poured a above-ground beam so I could wash out the shop if needed and not get the plate wet. I am in the south so freeze is not an issue. This gave me a little over 12' of interior height and I am good with a 4 post lift. I had a local lumber yard engineer my trusses and I had them done on 18" centers on a 5:12 pitch to match my house pitch. They also designed in storage the entire length of the ridge that was 8' wide. I put walk-up stairs at the far wall. I put one 16' wide by 10' door that is positioned 4' from the right wall on the 32' side. I can put 5 vehicles in it. Three pull in and angle park on the left. Then two deep on the right side. The lift is at the far end on the right side. It has turned out really good and I got everything out of it that I wanted.

Tom

 

[97r82]

I am perfectly happy with 12’ for a lift

Obviously 12 means 12 though, not 11’ 6”. As far as attic space, you should lay out your access. If you do ladder, I can’t emphasize how much you will dread using it. I used to be totally fine rock climbing at ridiculous heights, but it is shocking how uncomfortable it is at the top of a 12’ step ladder. If you do stairs, you may be unhappy how much valuable shop square footage stairs eat up. Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

check out attic lifts and a good set of aluminum pull down stairs

 

[sz0k30]

Just keep in mind that 12' walls and 12' lifts are 2 different 12 foots.

I have 12 foot walls. My 12 foot 2 post lift is 12'3". I have an open ceiling so the crossbar on the lift sits between joists. If you drywall or metal ceiling or have to place the lift perpendicular to the joists, you better keep that in mind.

 

[aventino68]

2nd floor is expensive and hard for old folks. If I could get it would trade for single story and more Sq ft.
Design is way more simple.

This. I also looked at having a lift that drops down to the basement for more space underneath a precast floor. As everyone here advised easier and cheaper if you have the space and zoning to just build out.

 

[97tj-neil]

1. Ceiling height. My barn has 14' ceiling. I have a Jeep Wrangler with 4" total lift and 33" tires, as well as a crew cab Silverado. I can put either on my Advantage 4 post lift and run it to the top notch. At 12' ceiling, I would not be able to. I have a buddy with a pole barn and 10' ceiling. He has multiple 4 post lifts and uses them to park cars 2 high for storage only. There is no work done in this building and no trucks in storage, and it works for him.

2. Your preference, but I cannot imagine letting my neighbors decide my architectural or aesthetic decisions.

3. My trusses are 40' long. I don't know what the max is, but the advice above is sound. Talk to an engineer vs getting internet advice.

Good luck on the build, and be sure to share pics with us.

3.

 

[AU Doc]

I’m going to try to sketch up a rough plan and settle on a roof pitch. I’ll send that over to the floor designer and see what a floor system will run. If it’s not prohibitively costly, that seems to be the route to take.

It’s interesting that adding more 1st floor area is cheaper than going up. When we built the house, we added a basement and a 2nd floor because the roof is expensive. And it was cheaper to add more square footage under the same roof than it was to add a larger first floor.

One of the downsides to living in a subdivision is any construction has to get approved. But as long as it generally fits with the style of my house, it should be fine. They’re pretty flexible. The bright side is it keeps people from doing something ridiculous that kills property values in the neighborhood. So there is two sides to that coin.

 

[2level]

...

It’s interesting that adding more 1st floor area is cheaper than going up. When we built the house, we added a basement and a 2nd floor because the roof is expensive. And it was cheaper to add more square footage under the same roof than it was to add a larger first floor.

...

I doubt that that will be the case. You're talking about an additional 1.300sf., right? That floor system and stairs may cost 7k, but an extra 1,300 sf. of concrete and roof/trusses, etc. will likely cost quite a bit more than that. And then there is the 'loss' of 1,300sf of land.

 

[AU Doc]

I doubt that that will be the case. You're talking about an additional 1.300sf., right? That floor system and stairs may cost 7k, but an extra 1,300 sf. of concrete and roof/trusses, etc. will likely cost quite a bit more than that. And then there is the 'loss' of 1,300sf of land.

Yeah. I that's what I was thinking on both accounts. I will already have the space, so I might as well use it if it's a small incremental cost. And it looks like my covenants are going to limit the size of my garage, so I need to take advantage of all the space I can.

 

[AU Doc]

Here's a quick sketch of a building with a 6/12 roof (on the left) and an 8/12 roof (on the right). This is 12'-6" walls (12' studs with double top and bottom plates. I could still do a course of block to pick up a few more inches as well. I'm not sure how useful the room would be with the 6/12 roof. The ceiling would only be 8' at the peak.

I also stuck a scale drawing of the front of my house in there, and I'm a little worried about the size of the building vs the size of my house! Our house is about 70' across the front, but the garage looks almost as wide at only 32'.

The actual location will be to the right and further back than my house. So similar to how I have the building on the right shown in the picture.

 

[GTFiero]

I built a 30'x60' pole building with 12' walls (Note photo). On one end I sectioned off a 24'x30' shop room. I used trusses for the ceiling, however on the shop end I used scissor trusses. The other 36'x30' of the building i used standard trusses. The exterior roof pitch is 5/12. Over the shop area the interior ceiling is 3/12 pitch giving me about 13'6" at the interior ridge, plenty high to put a 1/2 ton pick up on my planned 4 post lift and easily work under it (I'm 6'1"). On the 36'x30' side the ceiling is a flat 12' and works nice for storage and what not. My only regret was to not put an energy heal on the ends of the trusses allowing more space for insulation on the shop side ceiling, but i'll live with it as is. I have no plans for attic storage other than some building materials left over.

My shop door is 10'x10' insulated and is plenty big for vehicles (non-commercial), the storage side door is 18'x10'non-insulated, good for moving boats, trailers and the like in and out.

So far the setup works really well for us. Getting close to getting the shop insulated and heated.

 

[AU Doc]

I tweaked the 8/12 roof and added tails that match our house. Adding some windows helps a bit,too, but in reality on the first floor I would just add closed "shutters" where the windows would be.

 

[AU Doc]

I changed the gable end and the roof layout on the street-facing side to try to help match the house aesthetic.

 

[2level]

IMO, that's going to look out of place unless you can locate the garage behind the house or redesign the roof to look like the center part of the house. How big is the lot? Is there access from the back of it?

 

[AU Doc]

Yeah. I think you're right. Though I'm afraid getting the roofline to match, 32' wide, 12.5' walls, and attic space that can be finished may be mutually exclusive requirements.

I live on a 3 acre lot, but 1/2 of it is wooded, and I don't want to cut down any trees. There is no access from the back either.

 

[2level]

Why do you think that the building and roofline can't be properly scaled / designed to more or less mimic the house? And is there a reason why the new garage cannot be positioned partly or completely behind the house?

 

[AU Doc]

Our house has 9' ceilings and a pretty steep roof. So when I start with 12.5' walls on the garage and try to use the same pitch the roof on the garage ends up higher than the house.

I suppose I could try to shift the garage over behind the house a bit, but my wife really likes her view of the woods out our back door. So that will limit just how far over it could go.

 

[AU Doc]

I'm running out of talent on trying to make this thing look like the house

I tried to adjust the roof pitch to give a reasonable height while still keeping the same look. It's a little better, but I'm still not sure about it. I think the problem is the difference in the wall height between the house and the garage.

 

[2level]

Can you build it behind the house on the opposite side of the aforementioned viewing area out the back door?

It will look a lot more like the house once matching finishes are added, and once the rooftop is drawn closer to the 27 foot maximum.

 

[MFolks]

If you go with concrete blocks,after a while,do a walk around,looking for termite "tubes" they build to get to the wood,on the blocks.

 

[pogrelis97]

I have 12'4" to the bottom of my trusses and have never had an issue with a truck getting to close to them.

 

[aventino68]

Do you have any height limits with local laws? We're limited to 14.75' here and I'm using landscaping and a bunch of hedges and trees to hide the garage from the house. Wife worried it would dominate it.

 

[AU Doc]

I appreciate all the feedback from everyone!

Can you build it behind the house on the opposite side of the aforementioned viewing area out the back door?

It will look a lot more like the house once matching finishes are added, and once the rooftop is drawn closer to the 27 foot maximum.

The back and opposite side of the house is wooded (the left side), and the lot slopes off significantly on that side. We have a walkout basement on that end, and the master bedroom has lots of windows to take advantage of the view of the woods. So putting the garage over there would be prohibitively expensive, and again block the view See below for a quick sketch of where everything is sitting on our lot.

The rooftop in the last sketch is about 26'. I have it positioned further back than the house as it would be on our lot. So I think that's making it look shorter. And again, the taller first floor walls are throwing things off as well.

That said, I think you're right. Adding matching exterior finishes will help a lot.

If you go with concrete blocks,after a while,do a walk around,looking for termite "tubes" they build to get to the wood,on the blocks.

Good point! Termites are persistent. To say the least

I have 12'4" to the bottom of my trusses and have never had an issue with a truck getting to close to them.

This is good to know. What type lift do you have?

Do you have any height limits with local laws? We're limited to 14.75' here and I'm using landscaping and a bunch of hedges and trees to hide the garage from the house. Wife worried it would dominate it.

The last time I spoke with the inspector, they said they didn't The only limitations were in regard to heights vs framing member sizes.

However, my subdivision covenants don't allow the garage to be taller than the house. And it has to match the house aesthetic.

 

[2level]

Is the elevation on the right side/garage side the same as the house elevation? If a 2-story garage is offset completely clear of the house it may stick out like a sore thumb. Putting it closer to the house can help in that regard. Can you provide a little more detailed overhead plot plan?

It's also really helpful to construct a close-to-scale 3-D model of the house and garage. This can be done pretty easily with folded pieces of graph paper, then you can move the garage around to help visualize different street views.

 

[3onthetree]

This portion of the main house is what the garage should basically imitate. With the clipped main gable and gable return on the end, and a dormer above the overhead doors. A majority of your budget will be blown on the aesthetics of the garage shell to match the house, but it looks like your house and ROI deserves it, the shell is harder to add to or change in the future anyway.


A usable future apartment and high garage ceiling may be mutually exclusive with your covenants and budget. But, you have to either sheet or get off the pot, so decide now on running sewer and designing space for the stair and adequate windows, or just make it attic storage.

So nixing the penthouse, then, you can easily get a high garage by utilizing a 1 1/2 story design. The "tall wall" portion would be the dormer (and that can be open with no 2nd floor there), with the gable roof on the ends which mimic the house.

 

[nmk_61802]

This portion of the main house is what the garage should basically imitate. With the clipped main gable and gable return on the end, and a dormer above the overhead doors. A majority of your budget will be blown on the aesthetics of the garage shell to match the house, but it looks like your house and ROI deserves it, the shell is harder to add to or change in the future anyway.


A usable future apartment and high garage ceiling may be mutually exclusive with your covenants and budget. But, you have to either sheet or get off the pot, so decide now on running sewer and designing space for the stair and adequate windows, or just make it attic storage.

So nixing the penthouse, then, you can easily get a high garage by utilizing a 1 1/2 story design. The "tall wall" portion would be the dormer (and that can be open with no 2nd floor there), with the gable roof on the ends which mimic the house.

This what my initial thought was as well, or match the front portico (they both have similar roof lines.

 

[AU Doc]

Good points!

I'll give those changes a try and see how it looks.

Ultimately, I may have to give up on the room over the garage. I hate to give up the space, but I'd also much rather spend money on the work space than spend a ton of money on a second floor that would likely end up as nothing but storage, anyway.

 

[nmk_61802]

Good points!

I'll give those changes a try and see how it looks.

Ultimately, I may have to give up on the room over the garage. I hate to give up the space, but I'd also much rather spend money on the work space than spend a ton of money on a second floor that would likely end up as nothing but storage, anyway.

With the roof pitch matching the house, you should have a lot of attic space. Could look at using scissor trusses above the 3rd bay for lift clearance, and then use room in attic trusses for the rest of the bays to get a good size usable area.

 

[AU Doc]

That's a good idea!

 

[AU Doc]

Here's another shot. I like this much better, and I could flip the dormer to the opposite side. The spacing between the house and the garage is so I can run the driveway straight back to the garage.

Though I'm beginning to think I'm going to have to hire a professional to make this look right. While the aesthetic isn't necessarily one of my highest priorities right now, it will be if we ever have to sell this house. So I need to get it right.

 

[nmk_61802]

Here's another shot. I like this much better, and I could flip the dormer to the opposite side. The spacing between the house and the garage is so I can run the driveway straight back to the garage.

Though I'm beginning to think I'm going to have to hire a professional to make this look right. While the aesthetic isn't necessarily one of my highest priorities right now, it will be if we ever have to sell this house. So I need to get it right.

Looking much better, I would consider still increasing the roof slope to get closer to the house slope. Looks like you have a 10/12 on the garage and maybe a 12/12 on the house roofs facing the same direction.