Help Me Get My Variance

[burger]

Hey!

For those not following my zoning dilemna, I was shot down for a permit last week based on three things:

1. Too large of a garage (552 sq-ft, which is 52 sq-ft over limit)
2. Too close to setbacks (I want 2', town wants 5')
3. Too much impervious cover (52.7% compared to limit of 50%)

My wife picked up the variance paperwork yesterday and I started thumbing through it last night.

For each of the ordinances that I'm applying for a variance, I have to provide reasons why I NEED the variance and what HARDSHIPS I'm up against.

Well, the problem is that I don't really NEED any of them. When it comes down to it, I don't even need the garage; I'd just like to have it.

Anyway, here are my reasons... maybe someone can gin then up so the zoning board would see them a little better.

1. I want a 24 x 24 garage so I can comfortably park two cars and open the doors without worry. I also drive/work on larger vehicles, so I need the extra space to house them. I also want a decent sized workbench and space for some shop tools, like my hoist, engine stand, welder, etc.

2. I want to place my garage closer to the property line than setbacks allow. My yard is only 40' wide. If I place a 24' wide garage to thier desired setback of 5', that leaves an 11' wide strip of grass alongside the garage, which is basically useless. I have two little kids and I'd like to leave them with as much yard as possible.

3. The larger garage and larger driveway will put me over the impervious limit. I've already ripped out two walkways in front of the house. There's really nothing left to get rid of. The new driveway layout has two 2' wide strips up to the apron.


Please let me know if there's something I can add to strengthen my arguements. I plan to sit in on this month's zoning meeting so I can get a feeling for how it works. My meeting isn't until next month, but I'd like to start building my case now so I can show up prepared.


Thanks,
Ed

 

[1320stang]

Hmm... I would stay away from the fact that you work on cars, be them yours or anyone elses.

The kids with the yard size is a good angle as well as the vehicle sizes. Most parking spaces are 9' wide minimum, but as we all know, when you start stacking stuff on the sides of the garage, you limit your width.

You might also go for the angle that you want the garage so that you don't leave any vehicles out at night, giving the neighborhood a cleaner look as well as making it safer by not having a vehicle outside that would temp theives.

Also tell them that the garage doubles as a storage for your lawn equipment so that you don't have a tacky looking shed cluttering up your backyard taking up play room for your children.

 

[goodfellow]

Hmm... I would stay away from the fact that you work on cars, be them yours or anyone elses.
QUOTE]

Absolutley!! If they get a hint that you're doing mechanical work then that's a "red" flag because:

1) It automatically implies that you're using heavy lifting/welding equipment, which immediatley alerts them to noise, fire hazard, and environmental issues.

2) That eventually you'll violate the zoning by doing commercial work at your location.


Where I used to live, the mere fact that I received a small mill and lathe in my home garage had the zoning inspector at my front door within two weeks. Apparently someone had seen the equipment being delivered and called the home owners association -- which in turn called the zoning board.

Make it easy on yourself and use only "politically correct" reasons -- such as:

1) Reduce Clutter
2) Safety/Security
3) Property Value
4) Expanding Family (either new kids or elderly parents moving in)
5) New Job/Different job (required additional/bigger vehicles)

 

[gesoffen]

I would steer away from the "I want" point of view and more towards the "this is how it will benefit the neighborhood/township" point of view.

1) If you're going to mention working on cars (or other projects), emphasize that is a hobby (or they'll fear you'll start running a fly-by-night repair shop) and the garage will hide the various projects in their interim stages. It will also reduce the chances of theft and/or vandalism in the neighborhood by reducing the target profile. Add that the 24x24 is necessary due to the planned noise abatement measures (insulation and noisy tools/equipment housed indoors).

2) Can't help too much here other than to say that if there are any trees/vegetation that may have to be removed by following their setbacks, you could use that to your benefit. Of course, if you're preferred location requires the same, you may have to get "creative" with your reasoning. Other possible reasons could be drainage, sightlines to you neighbors and/or driveway access (i.e. less impervious cover necessary).

3) Here is where you can emphasize that you're "willing to give some back." Identify the impervious cover that you have already or will be removing to make up for the added impervious cover of your driveway.

The idea is to make the Board think that your size and location would benefit the neighborhood/town more than it would benefit you.

 

[twostory]

1. I want a 24 x 24 garage so I can comfortably park two cars and open the doors without worry. I also drive/work on larger vehicles, so I need the extra space to house them. I also want a decent sized workbench and space for some shop tools, like my hoist, engine stand, welder, etc.

2. I want to place my garage closer to the property line than setbacks allow. My yard is only 40' wide. If I place a 24' wide garage to thier desired setback of 5', that leaves an 11' wide strip of grass alongside the garage, which is basically useless. I have two little kids and I'd like to leave them with as much yard as possible.

3. The larger garage and larger driveway will put me over the impervious limit. I've already ripped out two walkways in front of the house. There's really nothing left to get rid of. The new driveway layout has two 2' wide strips up to the apron.

Ed,

Topic 1: would get some dimension on a big vechicle, an H2 hummer, etc. then say you plan on buying in one the future and the 20x24 garage will not allow you to park it inside. Basically you are requesting a variance for so you can park this oversize car inside and not in the driveway forever.

Also the idea that, I would like to store my yard tools inside and the 24x24 will allow me to, but the 20x24 will not. Again, have a diagram showing that your lawn mower, etc. really needs this much room, or it will have to sit outside and be an eyesore.

As other said, do not mention anything about working on cars, etc. This garage is so you can store lawn tools and cars inside and make the neighborhood look nicer.

Topic 2: Setback are very hard to fight. I have a 5 foot setback, that is okay with me, as my lot is 1/2 acre, so I have much more room than you. The reason they have set back are so two neighbors can not build next to each other. The 5 ft rule means structures will always be 10 ft apart, minimum. That 10 feet will really help when one building catches on fire. You should ask for the variance, but I do not think you will get it. Maybe if you make the property line wall, concrete block and fire rated for a 2 hour burn? Just a thought.

Topic 3: Oh I feel your pain on "impervious limit". I was able to transfer "impervious surface credit" from a neighbor's empty lot to my lot. Can you do the same? Do you have a rear concrete patio that you can remove, to get under the 50% limit? (you can put it back later)

 

[St-rider]

Try researching the records for variances granted to other people and compare those to yours for similarities.

Overhangs usually count towards the setback requirement. Maybe altering your plans to have a smaller overhang will help a little.

Do paving stones count the same as concrete towards the impervious limit? How about loose stone?

I hope things work out. Good luck!

 

[Rusty105]

I am not sure how well these products will work for you: One is Grasspavers, an interlocking mesh of plastic rings that will support grass, and vehicles. The other is Turf Stone, which looks like a concrete Honeycomb that you fill the voids with dirt and plant grass in. I would go with the Turf Stone. It looks like it will support a lot more, and in a year or two, depending how well you take care of your grass, you might not be able to tell it is there just by driving by. I would bet that in few years, after some thatch builds up in the grass, they might just 'disappear'. The nice thing about these products is that they are not 100% impervious. yes, each one will have a different % but you will have to weigh the options vs. cost vs. zoning board. If you show you are trying to go out of your way to comply, it might help.


http://www.invisiblestructures.com/GP2/grasspave.htm

http://consumer.unilock.com/products/product_line.php?pcid=16&prid=112

 

[Steve Szakats]

I fought the same battle in my town, though I didn't have the setback issue, just the coverage ones. Stay away from the workshop/tools theme for sure. Focus on the benefits to the neighborhood and to the family. A compelling argument in my case was all the storage that my kids require between bikes, sleds, carriages, kett-cars, skateboards, sprts equipment, mini bikes, which I can easily accomodate in a single garage bay. Then theres all the things I store in the garage rather than in my neighbors view: trash cans, recycle bins, garden equipment, ladders. And then of course the vehicles, getting them off the street and out of sight benefits everyone.

I got my variance!

 

[rodnok1]

My parents had some issues similar. They were adding a second garage, it had to be indicated it was for "storage" only, they limited them to one 16 foot door. Second they wanted to concrete too much area, it was passed since it was labeled a "patio" not driveway, since the second garage was not for vehicles. I doubt if they will budge on the setback if you cannot prove it cannot be located anywhere else. I agree with eliminating or reducing overhang on problem side. What about changing long portion of driveway over to just 2 strips.

 

[drbill]

If you lived in the same town as I do I would tell you not to waste your time trying. They are very tough to get a variance from.
I was shot down because they counted my porch as lot coverage. And I couldn't show a hardship, tried the clutter, garbage cans......... The crazy thing is after denying the larger garage they said I could put my clutter in a shed. They allowed me a 36 sq. ft. one, I'm still thinking about doing a 2 story shed
You might have a chance if it was just one variance but all the suggestions so far aren't hardships. The best suggestion is researching other variances that have been granted.

 

[URY914]

Reduce the size of the driveway to get to required impervious amount. You can alway come back and add a strip of concrete at a later date.

I think you're going to lose the battle on the setback. You need let it go.

Put these three items in priority and see which one is a gotta have. They may let you have something but you won't win on all the items.

 

[nxcj]

As said: DO NOT discuss needs for your hobby. It's not a hardship to them (although it is to us).

Continue with the thought that you need to have "X" amount of room to store required items (vehicles, lawn equipment, etc.)

As stated, the 5' setback is related to fire code. 10' minimum for non-fire rated walls. Offer up front to fire rate your wall. 5/8" sheet rock on the interior should fit the bill.


I'm on the private side now but spent 8 years as a city planner. These arguments aren't perfectly solid, but it's as close as you'll get! After all, you're not asking to build a 40x60 and 24x24 is fairly standard these days.

Good Luck!

 

[Charles (in GA)]

One word............ MOVE

I live in a large lot (average of 2.5 acre per lot) subdivision out in the country. In the winter, I can see my neighbors house, in the summer usually I cannot. I like it that way. This is as close to urban living as I would want. I grew up in a small house on a small lot in a city. Way too tight for me.

Charles

 

[volvo]

Run your situation by someone that really knows the drill. Get some good honest answers to all your questions by the people that know or have been there before ( local builders, architects, draftsmen,, people in the trade). I looked into adding a second garage once and found out that what I wanted could not be done my way, but using their rules, it could be built. For example, the garage had to be, side set back 5', rear 15', BUT if it was connected to the house side could be as little as 3' rear 10'.
Drive around see if others near you look like, if their stuff looks too tight for code and ask?? Like they say Knowledge is power and If you can learn by others mistakes you can that much further ahead. I think that you will be able to build with near as much sq ft as you wanted with a little give and take when all the dust clears. Good Luck..H

 

[OctaneMotorsports]

The key is preparation.

Bring as much as you can to help your case.

Pictures of your lot, blueprints, measurements, etc.

As said, don't mention that you will be doing automotive work.

Emphasize on how it will benefit the neighbourhood, more than how it will benefit you.

 

[SteveL]

I went though a similar situation when I wanted to add on to our existing home and garage. I had a 27' x 21' garage but wanted to go to 45' wide but that went over the set back rules by 20'. I went to every neighbor within 5 houses each way and had them sign a letter that they were OK with all the changes that I was wanting to do. Basically, everything you are doing is adding to the value of the property which brings everyone elses up as well. I ended up settling for 38' wide which took a 15' variance which got approved, mainly because of the neighbors approval.

Other issue was that our city has a limit of 720 sq ft for a garage and my 38' x 21' was over that by a measly 78 sq ft. After talking to our building commissioner, who lives 6 doors down, he said that if part of the area was walled off and called out as a mud room, laundry room, etc. it would not be considered as part of the garage square footage. Funny how the walls never actually got put up. It did have to have an access door to the outside which I like having anyway.

I also had a floor drain in the construction drawings but it got nixed right up front. Hmmmmm, wonder how that ended up getting put in? Funny how a stack of plywood hides things when an inspector comes around.

If I were you, I would talk to your neighbors and get them to come to the town meeting and speak on your behalf if possible. I had our wards alderman come to ours. He lives accross the street and 3 doors down. Have good drawings, maybe even an artists rendering of what it will look like. I would tell them that your main reason for wanting the garage this size is that you're getting a bass boat and don't want to leave it sitting out in the driveway, creating an eye sore for the neighborhood. The trailer takes that much depth and the truck that will be pulling it will take up the rest of the space. Add in a lawn mower, kids toys and bikes and you really need a 30' x 30', but will settle for a 24' square. Check other surrounding towns or municipalities to see what their restrictions are. Maybe yours are really old and need to be updated to accomodate newer vehicles. Garages back in the 50's and 60's did not need to be as big as they do now. Not your fault that Ford makes the 4 door F250 so long.

The only one on your list that will be a problem is the 2' set back. I would give in on that if you have to throw them a bone to get the other stuff that you want. Do you have a fence around your yard for a pet and small kids? No, well if they let you build 2' off the property line, you won't need to fence that side, again, making it look a lot better to the neighbor over there.

Main thing is to come prepared!!!! Tell then that you plan on living there a long, long time because it's a great community, great schools, parish, blah, blah, blah and this is a big investment, so that when your kids move back home with their kids to take care of you 30 years from now, they will be proud to live there. Ok, so I went a lilttle over board, but you get the idea.

Good luck!!!!

 

[ron in sc]

If you are not familiar with the process or the people who will be involved in rendering decisions that effect your property you should hire someone to handle the variance process for you. By doing that you will have the best chance at getting what you want.

Just the other day my variance was granted by all 7 commissioner of the Board of Zoning Appeals-Appeals. Variance dealt with setbacks, in particular my inability to meet a 25' setback to federally and state protected wetlands/marsh. Variance allows me to build 9' 6" from edge of critical line, i.e., wetlands.

Next step was to meet with the Board of Zoning Appeals-Site Design person for the city. We have an appointment for him to inspect our trees a week from this Friday. I have had a tree survey done and I have 6 trees, all live oaks, which are subject to the protection of the Tree protection requirement of a city ordinance. Other live oaks on the property will not be affected by construction.

The level of protection relates to their size. Restrictions deal with setbacks from the base of the trees and deal with changes in grade or construction of impervious surface or utilities within the required protective area. They are very stringent. Trees as small as 8" are protected. Any live oak over 24" is consider a grand tree. I have one over 33" and another over 80".

I'm not sure I will be able to meet the setback requirement for the trees, I'll just have to wait and see. I have hired a certified arborists who has made presentations to the city in the past and who has testified before the Board. I think he will be able to deal with my tree issues in a way that will allow the city to approve my site design. There are ways to deal with inability to meet setbacks within protected zones.

 

[burger]

Thanks for the responses and advice! I'll be incorporating a lot of it into my case.

Topic 1: Garage Size Over Square Footage Limit

I plan to enter the meeting with a CAD drawing showing the floorplan of a 24 x 24 garage. On this floorplan, I will draw both of our vehicles, yard equipment, kids stuff, etc to demonstrate that 24 x 24 will barely hold the stuff that's currently sitting in the open on my property or in a rickety shed that I will get rid of once the garage is complete (actually, I wont... the shed just needs new hinges and latches). Getting all of these things out of the yard and driveway will reduce clutter, improve the appearance of the neighborhood, and add security to my property as my vehicles and yard tools will be locked up at night. The new garage will add value to my property and indirectly the whole neighborhood; the added size would add resale value as the prospective buyers would also see the value of being able to house thier cars and outside things in the garage, but then I'll be quick to add that I don't plan on selling the house any time soon.


Topic 2: Garage Closer to Property Lines than Setbacks Allow

I plan to build my case from three angles -- increased yard space, approval from the neighbors, and a grandfather clause.

The grandfather clause would be the easiest to address. Put simply, my existing garage is 2 feet from the property line (1'3" with eaves and gutter) and I want the new garage in the same place. The rear set back conforms already.

I've already talked to the three neighbors whose properties are adjacent to mine. The one whose property is on the side where I want the variance has his driveway on the opposite side of his property, meaning that if he were ever to build a garage (which he plans to), the would be no danger of my garage and his coming within 10 feet of each other. I have also told him that I plan to replace the aging chain link fence that is between his property and mine with a new wood privacy fence. My dad owns a fence company so this is no problem. The people to the rear of my property are glad to see the old garage get knocked down. It's a decripit eyesore. The neighbor to the other property line is a contractor and has offered to help out with the garage and lend tools as needed.

The third angle is grass. Put simply, the more grass I have, the more room I have for my kids to play. More grass makes my property look better, which makes everyone's property look better.


Topic 3: Too Much Impervious Coverage

This is no longer an issue. The driveway was to consist of two 2' wide strips. I trimmed them down to 2 18" wide strips and am now under the limit. I also removed two walkways from the front of the house (this was done last weekend). I'll also point out to the zoning board that my existing asphalt driveway is in terrible shape and the new driveway will greatly increase the curb appeal of my property and will thus make everyone else's house look that much better.

In general I don't think I'm going to have too much of a problem getting a variance. My neighbors like me. I bought an ugly house and have improved the appearance greatly since moving in. Last summer I repainted the house, replaced all the visible windows, and did the first phase of my landscaping. This summer I'll finish the landscaping, add shutters, replace the driveway, and add a new garage. I'll have gone from one of the uglier houses on the block to one of the nicer ones. I plan to bring "before" pictures to the zoning meeting so the board members know that I'm concerned about the appearance of my property and neighborhood.

OK, that was a lot of typing.

Ed

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I'd be shocked and amazed it you were able to push them on the setback issue OR the impervious cover. Boils down to "Why would they make these rules in the first place just to vary from them?"

On the garage size rule? Seems to me the argument should be to get their size limit into the 21st century. In the world we live in, a 501 SF garage is not a big garage by a long shot. Of course, getting the law changed would slow you down even more.

In any case...Good Luck. If it was me, I'd take my wife with me to the hearing. It helps to present a united front.

Don't get your hopes up too far. Do your best...but you're fighting an uphill battle.

Phil

 

[1320stang]

Garages back in the 50's and 60's did not need to be as big as they do now. Not your fault that Ford makes the 4 door F250 so long.

Not trying to argue with you Steve, just pointing out my observations in Oklahoma, which I figured St. Louis would be pretty similar. 50's and especially 60's & 70's cars were land barges. From what I've seen, a lot of 30's and 40's houses (typically less than 1400 sf.) had a single car garage and sometimes that was detached, but most 50's and 60's houses I've seen have had a 24x24 garage minimum if it was two cars. My folks house where I grew up was about 1400 sf., built in '63 and easily had a 24x24 garage. It wasn't until the mid 70's and 80's until I started seeing the 20x20 garages. In my mind, 24x24 ought to be the minimum size for a two car garage just as I think 12x14 ought to be the minimum bedroom size for a kids bedroom. My house was built in '98 and the garage is 20x24 with a 8x10 cubby. I'm either going to add on a 36x32 three car to the side or put a 30x40 ~ 40x60 shop in the backyard. (I'm on a acre and a half in the country so I'm in pretty good shape there.)

 

[SteveL]

I agree with you but I remember as a kid watching my Mom pull in her '72 or '74 Buick Electra duece and a quarter 2 door and having to touch the front wall to get the door to clear the rear bumper. Then you put Dad's '66 Buick Wildcat 4 door next to it and you had to practically crawl out a window to get out!

This was in a nice middle class ranch house with a rear entry garage that was built in '63 for a whopping $32k.

 

[1320stang]

Hmm, Mom put her '79 Lincoln Town Car (with the aircraft carrier length hood) into the garage and we had a chest type freezer in front of it. Musta been deeper than 24' I guess. I also remember being able to stick the toes of my shoes into a chain link fence to climb it and all new chain link fence is made with the holes too small.... ;D

 

[Sundowner]

I'm going through this mess right now, so I feel your pain.
please, please please realize that when you apply for a variance, you are basically asking for permission to break a law. it sounds severe, but that's how the board views these things. understand that in many towns, esp. here in NJ, a variance board hearing is not to be taken lightly. if you lose, the only way to appeal is to the State Supreme Court. Most people who go for varainces (in NJ) show up with an army; they have an engineer who is recognized as an expert by the board in that community, a professional planner, and a lawyer. Even if you are willing to represent yourself, the fees can be rediculous. I'm an engineer and I did all my own paperwork, and I'm still in for $1200 to-date, and I'm not done yet. and lastly, variances take time. I applied for my variance last november, and I hope to have it all wrapped up by this august.

fiirst off, the garage size.
you need to prove a hardship for them to let you get away with it. By hardship, I mean you need to produce proof not just that you 'need' the space. these people don't give a flying **** if you 'need' the space. that's not thier problem. You need to prove that the zoning ordinance is not fair to your situation by citing things like there are x number of other houses within your community that have garages larger than 500SF. If you can't five at least five examples, don't bother trying to prove that you 'need' the garage to be 24x24. also, read that variance packet. a lot of towns require you to submit site survey with grading and topo on it, along with a drainage plan signed and sealed by an engineer. that's a lot of $$. Were I you, I would make the garage 24 x 20'-10" and get a 10'x10' shed for yard tools and bikes after the permit goes through.

setback issue.
forget this one. you WILL lose. the board will not care about 3' extra for your kids to play. thier argument will be fire prevention, and they will not move 2" on any issue they can peg as a safety concern. assuming you go with the 24' x 20'-10" above, this problem becomes a moot point.

impervious cover.
sounds like you got this one covered.