Help me pick breaker panel box and educate me on code

[free07110]

Building a metal building I will make into a barndo. Want extra big box for potential or a storage building next to me for future needs.
Eyeballing 200 amp 40 space box. Below pics of the 3 I’m looking at. Also my understanding is ALL breakers have to be arc or gfi breakers on new construction.l, is this true? ( no inspection required by county but want to make sure im up to code).

 

[Norcal]

I would chose the SQ D HOM over a Eaton BR, a BR panel would be my last choice, AFCI's are only required for certain residential areas, seeing that your from Oklahoma, they are on the 2023 NEC.

 

[chinboys]

Had I known the Square D Homelite panel box brand doesn't allow for slim dual pole breakers... I would have brought a more commercial line from them.

Plan for a lightning or power surge protector.

Ask your local building officials for the codes that you ought to have.
Or find the latest code book for your area. It usually exceeds the State and National standards you can find online or in a library.

I like GFCI protected circuits and the arc fault protection concept. But I have heard of too many false positives in their use.

 

[Norcal]

Had I known the Square D Homelite panel box brand doesn't allow for slim dual pole breakers... I would have brought a more commercial line from them.

Plan for a lightning or power surge protector.

Ask your local building officials for the codes that you ought to have.
Or find the latest code book for your area. It usually exceeds the State and National standards you can find online or in a library.

I like GFCI protected circuits and the arc fault protection concept. But I have heard of too many false positives in their use.

Homeline panels do accept twin breakers, just certain one's use full size breakers only. arc fault is still snake oil, nobody can prove the they work, GFCI's do work although recent expansion of the requirements are overkill & have caused problems.

 

[dcg9381]

arc fault is still snake oil, nobody can prove the they work, GFCI's do work although recent expansion of the requirements are overkill & have caused problems.

Isn't it easy to show that the work was done? You open the panel and see if the breakers are arc fault.

My experience with GFI/AFI breakers has been awful in residential. Lots of ways to trigger them. Not a fan of the dual-purpose. Never tried arc fault breakers alone.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Some location require "barns" (possibility of live animal) have all wiring in metal conduit. Not sure about NEC.

 

[alfredeneuman]

NEC Article 347 is for Agricultural Buildings

Some location require "barns" (possibility of live animal) have all wiring in metal conduit. Not sure about NEC.

"(A) Wiring Systems. Types UF, NMC, copper SE cables,jacketed Type MC cable, rigid nonmetallic conduit, liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit, or other cables or raceways suitable for the location, with approved termination
fittings, shall be the wiring methods employed. The wiring methods of Article 502, Part II, shall be permitted for areas described in 547.1(A)."

(502 Part II permits the use of rigid metal conduit and locknuts)
The metal conduit must be coated sufficiently when use in corrosive areas.

 

[sparky 1971]

Go with the Homeline. As far as AFCI, it's not required everywhere, but most places. Bathrooms, garages, furnace, exterior, and unfinished rooms don't need it, about everythingelse 120 does. GFCI is required for kitchen countertop receptacles, bathroom receptacle, outside, laundry, garages, and any other place within 6' of a sink. That goes the same for 240 volt outlets including the AC of the 2020 edition of the NEC.

 

[Jim greengo]

Had I known the Square D Homelite panel box brand doesn't allow for slim dual pole breakers... I would have brought a more commercial line from them.

Plan for a lightning or power surge protector.

Ask your local building officials for the codes that you ought to have.
Or find the latest code book for your area. It usually exceeds the State and National standards you can find online or in a library.

I like GFCI protected circuits and the arc fault protection concept. But I have heard of too many false positives in their use.

You can use a certain number of tandems in homelike panels,just depends on which 1 you have.
If you need a bunch of tandem breakers in a new panel,you should of bought a bigger panel.

 

[Dagny]

Eaton C-H.

 

[dscheidt]

You can use a certain number of tandems in homelike panels,just depends on which 1 you have.
If you need a bunch of tandem breakers in a new panel,you should of bought a bigger panel.

Most (maybe all) current homeline panels can take a tandem breaker in any spot. That hasn't always been true, but it's true of all the plug-on neutral ones. But if you need tandems in new construction, you did indeed get a panel that's too small.

 

[alien]

I am a retired electrician of over forty years. I don’t like any of the circuit breakers that just slide onto the bus.

The only two brands that I recommend and use are and I favor the Square D for more availability.

square d QO

Cutler hammer

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I like GFCI protected circuits and the arc fault protection concept. But I have heard of too many false positives in their use.

GFCIs are a tested and proven device that rarely ever has false positives (trip when theres no issue). cant say the same for snake oil AFCIs.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I don’t like any of the circuit breakers that just slide onto the bus.

unless its a bolt-on breaker panel, it will have breakers that slide onto the bus. I dont know of any resi panels that are bolt-on

 

[Gozo]

Eaton C-H.

Do they still makes the CH? I have that in my home and it’s 40 years old. I’d figure they made updates to models by now.
Good box though.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Feedback requested from the Sparkys

Square D Homeline uses aluminum buss bars while regular/commercial Square D uses copper.

What other differences ? Are the breakers interchangeable ?

 

[mm08822]

Homeline is not interchangeable with QO.

 

[walta]

Being an out building most of your circuits will require GFCI protected. Seems like you will want your GFCI to be in the panel because trying to find the one tripped GFCI outlet when you have 20 or so hidden around the building seems crazy.

With that many GFCI breakers the “Plug in Neutral” breakers from Square D would be a must have for me.

Square D QO panels have copper buss bars and the home line has aluminum. I think copper is worth the money.

https://www.menards.com/main/electr...100pcvp/p-1642874336197200-c-6437.htm6437.htm

[/URL]

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Do they still makes the CH? I have that in my home and it’s 40 years old. I’d figure they made updates to models by now.
Good box though.

yes its Eaton CH now

 

[Norcal]

Do they still makes the CH? I have that in my home and it’s 40 years old. I’d figure they made updates to models by now.
Good box though.

It used to be the best residential/light commercial panel line out there, been cheapened up but still good.

 

[Firebrick43]

Building a metal building I will make into a barndo. Want extra big box for potential or a storage building next to me for future needs.
Eyeballing 200 amp 40 space box. Below pics of the 3 I’m looking at. Also my understanding is ALL breakers have to be arc or gfi breakers on new construction.l, is this true? ( no inspection required by county but want to make sure im up to code).

For $120 ish dollars more you can have a square D QO panel that has actual copper buss bars instead of cheap tin plated aluminum buss bars.

It will save you or a latter owner thousands in work and a new box if the aluminum buss bars start corroding. I have seen a few installed in dry locations start corroding

 

[Steve W.]

I would chose the SQ D HOM over a Eaton BR, a BR panel would be my last choice, ...

Don't want to derail a thread, but why is that?

My main panel in the house was replaced about 10 years ago when the service entrance location was changed, due to construction. The electrician that did the job installed a BR panel (I had no information to argue one way or the other). When I built my shop, I put a BR panel in there, too, mainly because it was the same as what I had in the house.

Is there a genuine problem with them? Not going to replace them at this point, but would like to know if there is some sort of problem I need to watch for.

.

 

[dscheidt]

For $120 ish dollars more you can have a square D QO panel that has actual copper buss bars instead of cheap tin plated aluminum buss bars.

It will save you or a latter owner thousands in work and a new box if the aluminum buss bars start corroding. I have seen a few installed in dry locations start corroding

When comparing cost of QO vs HOM, don't forget the cost of the breakers. Plain single pole QO breakers cost ~$20, vs $10 for HOM. haven't priced AFCI or GFCI lately, but QO ones are more there too, some of them a lot more. For a full panel, the parts cost difference can be several hundred bucks. There are millions of HOM panels that do not corrosion problems. (I do wish there were copper bus HOM panels, though.)

 

[dcg9381]

Some location require "barns" (possibility of live animal) have all wiring in metal conduit. Not sure about NEC.

PVC conduit won't cut it?

 

[alfredeneuman]

I dont know of any resi panels that are bolt-on

Not a currently made breaker but ITE Pushmatics

 

[alien]

unless its a bolt-on breaker panel, it will have breakers that slide onto the bus. I dont know of any resi panels that are bolt-on

Square D QO and Cutler hammer both snap over the bus. It’s a much more solid connection. I do agree. Bolt on is the best but that’s not what we were talking about.

 

[u2slow]

Square D QO.

I prefer a 60 space panel for a main, if it will be the only substantial panel in the residence.

 

[Norcal]

Don't want to derail a thread, but why is that?

My main panel in the house was replaced about 10 years ago when the service entrance location was changed, due to construction. The electrician that did the job installed a BR panel (I had no information to argue one way or the other). When I built my shop, I put a BR panel in there, too, mainly because it was the same as what I had in the house.

Is there a genuine problem with them? Not going to replace them at this point, but would like to know if there is some sort of problem I need to watch for.

.

Due to their Zinsco heritage I refuse to use them, the panels were Challenger designs which is a successor to Zinsco, & later Sylvania, when Westinghouse, bought Challenger, they kept the Challenger panels, & had UL list Westinghouse breakers to replace Challenger, to this day BR breakers are UL listed for Challenger & BR panels, they were marketed as "engineered value", which is another way to say cheap, they are aiming at the same market as Zinsco/Sylvania/Challenger which is the bottom end slap it in & be gone, there are to makes I despise, Eaton BR, & GE although I use a couple of GE A-series panelboards THQB (bolt-on breakers) attached, I have no issues with SQ D, QO, or HOM, Eaton CH, or Siemens, Eaton CH used to be the top of the line panel but they cheapened a bit, but with AFCI's & plug on neutrals they had too. With every product line there has to be someone at the bottom & Eaton BR is the Yugo of the residential electrical industry

 

[Steve W.]

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I guess I’ll hope that my two “Yugos” fare better than the automotive version.

.

 

[thammel]

I always go with square D QO. High quality.

 

[Cruzan80]

While engineered cheaper, I have found no credible evidence that Eaton BR panels/breakers will have the Zinsco issue of not tripping due to over current and starting fires. There is a difference between levels of quality, and then there is outright dangerous.

 

[Tundra1]

That same homeline panel has been sitting in my cart planning to buy for new shop. Seems like best bargain and everything else at my place is homeline. Price is showing $249 for me though.

 

[NUTTSGT]

It seemed a few years back, the recommendation was if you were using SQ D, to go with the QO line rather than the cheaper Homeline.

Has something changed ? More panels installed and they have proved to be worth their salt ?

 

[PCustoms]

It seemed a few years back, the recommendation was if you were using SQ D, to go with the QO line rather than the cheaper Homeline.

Has something changed ?

Probably just that more people had to open their own wallets.

I have 3 homeline panels here (meter/main, house and shop) with 0 issues or concerns.