Help me plan conduit run for lighting

[SaltH2OHokie]

As a certified amateur conduit ruiner, I'd like a check on my plan to pipe my lights and switches. A sketch would probably help but in the meanwhile, trying to pipe the below arrangement in EMT in a 30*40 red iron building:

-8 lights; two rows of 4.
-3 switch locations, one on each wall except wall that panel is on (so 4 way/dpdt switches)
-2 switches per light (4 lamp t5ho high bays, 2 bulbs per switch).

I've got circuit piped out of panel, up to closest light, lights piped in a loop (well...a "U"). Question is how to most efficiently get the switching piped. I was going to loop the three switch boxes together and then hit the lights at the end of their loop... But that would use more conduit than just coming down or of whatever light box happens to be closest to a given switch box, but I can't wrap my head around how the travellers for the 4 way switching would run in that scenario. Confusing enough?

To clarify my level of ability: I'm in commercial construction management, have lots of qualified help that will work for beer or just answer questions, I wired my own house from start to finish a few years ago, leaning on said help, but I'm far from expert.

Thanks!

 

[Terry D]

Is there a reason having a "high" and "low" for the fixtures and not having all 4 tubes switched together. Seems like a lot of switches

 

[SaltH2OHokie]

Is there a reason having a "high" and "low" for the fixtures and not having all 4 tubes switched together. Seems like a lot of switches

My last garage I did half the fixtures on one switch, half on other, and found myself using half sometimes, all other times. But no. Not a deal breaker. Just figure if the lights are capable of inner and outer bulbs switched separately, why not? Otherwise I was pondering half lights on one switch, half on the other.

You thinking it just adds unnecessary complexity?

 

[alfredeneuman]

Is there a reason having a "high" and "low" for the fixtures and not having all 4 tubes switched together. Seems like a lot of switches

High low switching (aka A/B switching) are spec'd in 90+ percent of offices.
It provides for even coverage of the lighting.

 

[SaltH2OHokie]

Panel is on 30' wall. Ignore extra 4 square box. There was an attempt to come straight out of panel to avoid two extra bends. Couldn't come up with a good way to support it, so extra bends it is!

12' door is on 40' wall. One switch box is on left jamb of that door.

Walk doors are on other two walls. Switch box at each. One is hidden in picture behind outboard motor on "back" wall. Other is right hand back corner.

Light boxes are piped. Just stumped on best way to connect switch boxes.

 

[SaltH2OHokie]

Plan view:

 

[yatg]

switch wiring diagram

 

[Terry D]

My last garage I did half the fixtures on one switch, half on other, and found myself using half sometimes, all other times. But no. Not a deal breaker. Just figure if the lights are capable of inner and outer bulbs switched separately, why not? Otherwise I was pondering half lights on one switch, half on the other.

You thinking it just adds unnecessary complexity?

No, just asking. It does add more wiring, but if you think it would be beneficial, then do it. Usually in a shop, I would think you want it bright all the time.

 

[SaltH2OHokie]

Two sets of switches I can handle. My non-elechicken brain can't wrap around how to do ver 2.0, wiring wise for the 4 way portion of this exercise. It's less pipe, for sure... And I'm pretty sure it's doable... But, how?

Or do we need option C that I'm just not seeing?

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, plan your fixture layout, then plan your runs to the fixtures and the switches.

Having multiple switches allows you the adjust the lighting, and energy draw, to most efficiently meet your needs. Here in California, we have Title 24, which mandates energy efficiency.

 

[cybrdyke]

Pipe in one master switch. Then use as many remote wireless switches as you want. Hell with all that confusion, pipe bending and hanging, and time spent.
CD

 

[alfredeneuman]

Pipe in one master switch. Then use as many remote wireless switches as you want. Hell with all that confusion, pipe bending and hanging, and time spent.
CD

How the heck can you run the wires to the fixtures without conduit? The only other option is cable.
It's not as confusing and time consuming as you make it out to be.

 

[cybrdyke]

How the heck can you run the wires to the fixtures without conduit? The only other option is cable.
It's not as confusing and time consuming as you make it out to be.

Piping in the power for the fixtures is taken for granted, but there's no need to run pipe to all those extra switches when you only need to do it to one.

It might not be confusing for you, but the OP has stated twice that he's having trouble wrapping his brain around it.
CD

 

[ROBZ71LM7]

I'm going to offer an answer to a question you didn't ask. Use smart switches and control with your phone or verbally with alexa and you can minimize the number of 3-way and 4-way switches. It's a great alternative to extra wiring and conduit.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Piping in the power for the fixtures is taken for granted, but there's no need to run pipe to all those extra switches when you only need to do it to one.CD

Why is piping in the power taken for granted? If cable is OK for the rest of it, it's OK for the feed too. (after all, it will all come in to the same box).
PVC conduit can be cut and fitted before gluing.
It will necessarily be routed the same with cable as conduit.

 

[cybrdyke]

Why is piping in the power taken for granted? If cable is OK for the rest of it, it's OK for the feed too. (after all, it will all come in to the same box).
PVC conduit can be cut and fitted before gluing.
It will necessarily be routed the same with cable as conduit.

I dont think you're understanding me. I'll try to be more clear.
OP stated that he wants to use conduit for power and then down to multiple switch boxes on the wall. Does he HAVE to use conduit? I dont know. Maybe where he's located, it's required. But since he said that's what he was gonna do, then that's what he's gonna do.
He will need conduit to run power to the fixtures.
He will need to run conduit to the wall box for the switch.

All I'm saying is that he doesn't need to pipe in multiple switch boxes around the space. He can just use one master switch and however many wireless remotes that he wants. This would save pipe, wire, boxes, labor to install, and eliminate the confusion of 3way and 4way switches. Truthfully, he wouldn't even need the master switch.
Hope that clarifies.
CD

 

[SaltH2OHokie]

Exposed installation, so need protection.

No internet, so no fancy wireless switching unless there's a way to do it with no internet?

 

[adsinnott1]

Look into the lutron casetta with pico remotes. I have one main switch in my garage and 2 other pico remote switches throughout. Also have started putting them in my house where convenient. No internet needed.

 

[alfredeneuman]

He already has the conduit run to both rows of fixtures.
How about this:
I agree with you with the simplicity of wiring the individual fixtures with relays to avoid the complications and materials needed for the 3way (DPDT?) and 4 way switches. I also agree that he wouldn't need a "master switch".
All the conduit necessary is already run.
I can see your point
I just got caught up in the discussion re: conduit

 

[jlv03]

Install Lutron Caseta off/on switches on or very near the panel. Use the remotes near the 3 doors.

https://www.casetawireless.com/products/dimmers-switches

 

[SaltH2OHokie]

Y'all had me sold on the Lutron/Pico solution. But, I need more power than they're rated to switch?

5A or 6A max current are my only two options. My lighting setup exceeds that, even divided in half (8 fixtures, 4 54W lamps per fixture...switched half and half would still be 7.2A, Correct?)

 

[adsinnott1]

8x4= 32 Lamps
32 Lamps x 54 watts= 1,728 Watts
1,728/110= 15.7 A

Or 7.35A if you use 2 circuits.

You are correct. I am not sure of another option for a multi "remote" switch that can handle that amperage. Maybe you could use come sort of relay to handle the load and the switch only passes low amperage? I may be talking way out of bounds here...

I am not an electrician so please take my advise with a grain of salt.

Maybe get some lower wattage fixtures?

 

[alfredeneuman]

8x4= 32 Lamps
32 Lamps x 54 watts= 1,728 Watts
1,728/110= 15.7 A
I am not an electrician so please take my advise with a grain of salt.

You have the correct formula...but 1,728/110 should be replaced by 1,728/120. There is no 110 in the US or Canada

 

[cybrdyke]

Lutron Vive Powpak RMJS-8T-DV-B is 8A max.
With two of them, you should be good to go. You can use one pico to operate both together, or as many picos as you want to operate them separately.
CD

 

[TonyinNC]

I've used Shelly 1 WiFi relays to control outdoor lights. They have a UL listed option, and are rated for 15 amps.

If you search for Shelly 1 UL listed relay and go to the site "shopusa shelly cloud" you should be able to find it.

I tired to post as a link, but this is my first post. I do a lot more reading than writing.

 

[Bubba2587]

Looks like you are done with your conduit runs on this project but in future. Look into this Dakota systems product made my life easier. They make snap in conduit and strut clamps, made mounting my control box simple.

We use a-lot of them at our factory though they can be purchased at McMaster-Carr