Help me plan the "perfect" underground feed!

[PCustoms]

Back story: POCO has decided to work with me to improve service reliability for me and my neighborhood. This fall they are going to feed my house from the main road, removing the 125' service drop theough the back yatd that is tugging on my house causing some structure issues. Next spring they are going to re-route the main feed for the neighborhood out of the woods behind me due to the continued service interuptions and lack of vehicle access.

So in a few weeks I'll have a new pole at the road and one halfway down my driveway. It looks like from there it will be about 125' total to the house panel, 90' underground.

Option A: run 200A service down pole and underground to the house, need a new meter pan. Can use dual meter pan and maintain my reduced rate for the h2o heater.

Manual generator interlock is at the house.

Future shop (2 years away) would be fed from house panel.

Option B: run 200A service down the pole to a new meter/main on a pedestal next ro pole. Run 200A 4 wire to house. Need to move grounds over and DE bond.

Loose the redused rate h2o feed, but already planning an on demand propane heater at some point.

Genrator interlock or ATS can be here, which is also close to my bulk propane tank, or at the house.

Future shop is then a 4 wire sub from the pole

Difference in distance to shop is maybe 50 feet.

Which scenario seems better? What wire should I run undergoing in condiut?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I would do a load calc including the shop.

Is the house all electric?

 

[PCustoms]

I would do a load calc including the shop.

Is the house all electric?

No, gas heat and stove. Only "big" loads would be dryer, h20 heater and pump. All lighting is LED.probably very little load.

Although Currently shop is in the basment, so it is feasible for me to be running the welder, drying laundry and heating water.

I originally set the house panel up as 200A so I could do a 75A or so feed to the future shop.

I get what you are saying though, I might only need 100A each to the house and shop, redusing my wire size. I have been looking at the cost difference, seams 200A might be 250mcm. Isthere a sticky or tutorial.on load calcs?

I am leaning towards the meter/main adjacent to the pole, seems that a squareD will only be about $150, assuming the POCO approves.

What should I run for wire? URD quadreplex seems cheapest per foot, I would run this in condiut to the house, and then I need to junction to SEU outside the house, correct?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Here ya go.

https://www.mikeholt.com/documents/calculations/formulas/ResidentialLoadCalculations.xls

And yeah URD is not allowed indoors

 

[PCustoms]

Here ya go.

https://www.mikeholt.com/documents/calculations/formulas/ResidentialLoadCalculations.xls

And yeah URD is not allowed indoors

Thanks, will open tomorrow on the PC. Appologies for the typos, been on my phone out by the fire.

 

[PCustoms]

Here ya go.

https://www.mikeholt.com/documents/calculations/formulas/ResidentialLoadCalculations.xls

And yeah URD is not allowed indoors

EDIT: I've got this open in Google Docs (no excel on this PC) and most drop downs don't work. Looks like I am hovering right around 100A (if I include the basement shop load) so I've been figuring 150A feed for now. Figuring 3/0 AL right now.

How do I determine neutral and ground sizes? Looks like it might come out of the load calc, but not trusting this until I open it in excel.

Looks like i'm nixing the URD idea, by the time I get a box and some connectors the savings is gone.

 

[PCustoms]

Load calc is giving me about 112A for the house.

Gas stove
Gas furnace
electrical H20 heater
2hp well pump
4 SABC (I assume I count all the outlets in the house?)
1 fridge
1 laundry
1 range hood.
1300 sqft lighting

Load seems high to me.

 

[PCustoms]

Bump.

Utility is finally getting their end together. I'll be ruining 200A down the pole to a meter main, and 125A to the house right now. 60' from meter to house.

How close to the LP gas regulator can I enter the structure?

How deep do I have to bury the condiut?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Load calc is giving me about 112A for the house.

Gas stove
Gas furnace
2hp well pump
4 SABC (I assume I count all the outlets in the house?)
1 fridge
1 laundry
1 range hood.
1300 sqft lighting

Load seems high to me.

That does seem high with all the gas appl.

Id have to input the values myself on excel and see what i get.

Bump.

Utility is finally getting their end together. I'll be ruining 200A down the pole to a meter main, and 125A to the house right now. 60' from meter to house.

How close to the gas meter can I enter the structure?

How deep do I have to bury the condiut?

Im not aware of any requirements for gas meter distance.

Burial depth depends on several factors.

Table 300.5 has the specs.

http://www.xwalk.com/images/Table_300.5-Min_Cover_Reqts.pdf

 

[75gmck25]

During an online search I ran across this guidance for electric and gas meter spacing, but there was no actual code reference.
"The service entrance must not be located within 3 feet of the utility side of the gas meter or within 10 inches of the customer side of the gas meter."

Bruce

 

[PCustoms]

That does seem high with all the gas appl.

Id have to input the values myself on excel and see what i get.

EDIT: added the elec. Water heater to my previous post

I think the lighting Load is way off, as I'm on LED and it seems to default based on square footage. I'll have to look later on my laptop to see what else drove it up.

I did assume some loads in the shop, I think 2 3hp motors running concurrent (saw and dust collector) along with the dryer running, as it happens on weekends.

Im not aware of any requirements for gas meter distance.

Burial depth depends on several factors.

Table 300.5 has the specs.

http://www.xwalk.com/images/Table_300.5-Min_Cover_Reqts.pdf

The URD instructions from the utility say 10ft from gas meter, or see NFPA 48 table 401 (wich I can't find). I'm on a tank, the underground feed comes from a totally different direction and I'll be about 5ft away from the secondary regulator away the house. The meter will be 50ft+ away.

They also note 36" burial depth, but the print makes it seem like their side. The chart you linked confirmed I only need 18".

 

[PCustoms]

During an online search I ran across this guidance for electric and gas meter spacing, but there was no actual code reference.
"The service entrance must not be located within 3 feet of the utility side of the gas meter or within 10 inches of the customer side of the gas meter."

Bruce

Everything I find seems to be the same, dealing with meters and no actual code references.

I've got the 2nd stage LP regulator (I own it) and it would be about 5ft from the LB on the protected side of the feed.

 

[CNGsaves]

+1 to keep at least 3 ft from any gas/propane piping and your electrical, regardless of local code.

Also, be absolutely sure that all your NG/propane supplies come UP from ground first, then enter building above grade. Having a leak that collects underneath a house is NOT good.