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Help Me Pour Concrete!

Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Messages
22
Location
Georgia
As you know I have started my tight budget garage. I have finished digging the foundation by hand, have the forms in place and the vapor barrier and the wire down. The guy I talked to about finishing the concrete for me came out yesterday and looked at my work to make sure it was ready to pour. Originaly he told me he would finish the concrete for $250. Yesterday he said he could not remember what he had told me when I said he had quoted me $250 He said he could not do it for that it would take $485 to finish the concrete.:mad: I do not have the extra money for him to finish it. So I guess I will have to finish it myself. I have poured and finished concrete with a broom finish, but not with a smooth finish. Can anyone tell me how to do this? I plan on putting VCT on the floor after it is finished.
By the way th pad is 16 x 20.
Thanks for your help.
MKR
 
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rockwithjason

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
2,633
Location
Las Vegas
The screeding will be the toughest part. Set stakes in the ground in a grid pattern with the finished floor elevation notched in them. use a good straight 2x4 to level out the mud in sections from the far end of the slab to the near end. You may want to break the pour into smaller sections to make it managable for one guy. Use rebar to connect the sections together about every foot. When you have the section screeded off, you may need to use a float to even it off a little more. Once you have the slab level and even, you lightly drag a shop broom from the far end to the near end for the finish.
 

MXtras

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
1,356
Location
On the Right Coast
Being 16' wide, you are going to need a helper, but this is how I would suggest tackling this:

Set the tops of the forms rigidly and as accurately as you can. Don't under estimate the force created by the weight of the 'crete - stake the sides well. Give consideration to drainage and slope when setting the forms - either plan on a slight crown across the width or a slight slope down the length. Start the fill in the back and simply fill the forms, moving the crete around with shovels and a rigid tined rake. Tamp it down well on the edges and in the corners with the rake to pack it and remove any voids. I suggest trying to tamp all of it - as you are spreading it you will introduce air and voids - work it up and down with a rake or stab it with the shovels to settle it. Over fill the forms slightly. After the crete is basically where it needs to be it will need to be leveled and smoothed. The pros can float it because they have the experience to do so, but even the experienced guys can leave low spot and high spots. I would suggest that you take a board (in this case a 2X6) -actually it might take two 12 footers screwed to a few backing boards or pieces of angle iron to make a stiff 20'+ long board that is straight and smooth on one edge. You can belt sand a slight crown across the length or just leave it - it will bow and curl when you are using it and as long as it does not sag, your driveway will be relatively flat.

After you get about maybe 6' to 8' roughed in, take the board and set it on the top of the forms at the back edge and using a slight sawing motion, advance it down the form relatively slowly. You only need to 'saw' it maybe 2" or so. It would be helpful to have a third person to help fill low spots or remove excessive material as you are doing this. Keep the tops of the forms clear to help keep the surface as smooth as possible and try not to mess with it any more than necessary - the more you screw with it, the more of the Portland will be pushed away and you will be left with a relatively rough, exposed aggragate look. Your first pass with the board will not be perfect - it usually takes a tleast 2, sometimes 3 passes. After it is smoothed and flat, let it sit and move forward. It might be helpful to mist it lightly with water every once in a while to keep it somewhat damp, but be careful not to hit it with enough where you begin to form puddles - this will create problems, too.

Basically - that's it. You do this the entire length of the drive. Come back with a stiff bristled broom after maybe an hour (depending on the temp, etc) and drag it across the surface (again - only one or two times - MAX). Don't try to broom it until it has set up pretty well - you will tend to want to try to broom it too early. The surface is still usually soft enough to broom for at least an hour after it is poured - again - this depends on the temperature and how old the concrete is. Sometimes the drivers will stop by their house, Dunkin donuts, the gas station and the grocery store before the crete makes it to your place, so each load might be a little different - you have to judge each dump seperately. If the load is dry, mist it while you are shoveling and raking - don't wait until it is leveled out.

There's more to it, I guess, but this is all I can convey without writing a novel. I am not a pro at this. I have poured several pads and these are the methods I use when it's a DIY job - otherwise I will just pay someone as concrete is expensive and you don't get a second chance to make it right.

Duty calls - I will check back in a little bit.

Scott
 
OP
M
Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Messages
22
Location
Georgia
Thanks for the responses. I don't think I want a broom finish as I am going to put down VCT. I have poured broom finished concrete before. I guess the real question is how do I get the slick finish? After I run the bull float over the surface do I just leave it alone and let it dry? Or do I need to trowel it again? I thought it needed to be troweled again, but that the timing of the troweling was critical. If so, how do I tell when it is ready for the final troweling?
TIA
MKR
 

EvilEye

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
85
Location
Piketown,PA
try your local rental yard for a power trowel,

gas engine with 5 or so metal blades.

This ( if used properly) will get you that smooth power troweled finish
you are lookin for.
 

bobbyd

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2006
Messages
137
Location
Kansas
My suggestion, and this is serious, if you want a good flat smooth floor with a fuzz finish (troweled but not super slick) find someone with some real life experience to help you. This is not a one man job. Although the suggestions above are helpful, they're not entirely accurate. Both suggestions ommitted bull floating, critical to a flat floor. The surface will need troweled at least twice, at the correct timing, to provide the finish you are looking for.

Check around, see if you can't hire a finisher by the hour to help out. If you and a couple buddies can provide the bulk of the grunt work, you can stay within your budget. But if you go it alone, and the worst happens, you'll be looking at it forever, or replacing. VCT will not cover up a poor finish.
 
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Der Bugmeister

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Messages
445
You only get one chance to get it right, and that chance is very shortlived. It costs a lot to try again, or you have to look at your mistakes every time you set foot in the garage.

For my money, the extra $235 is well worth getting that experienced hand on-site (get more quotes, too). The slab pour/finishing was the only part of my garage build that I hired someone else to do, and I have no regrets.
 

red caddy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
94
Location
venice, Florida
MKR, Please don't take this the wrong way. If I were in your place, (and I have been several times) I would either put off the pour until you can scratch up the extra bux for the pro finisher with the proper tools,( Mag screed/ float, power trowel etc.) or check around other construction sites and try to day hire a couple of experienced laborers with concrete skills, that can read the local batch plant mixes and stop some common but very expensive mistakes that all us folks outside the mud game WILL make make if not guided by an experienced hand. The goin' rate down here is $100.00/ day, and a good mud guy is easily worth twice that. Remember, you can't come back tomorrow and fix it.
I've done a fair amount of concrete work in the last 30 years, as a helper on slabs up to 80' X 120', BUT the largest I'll try to place and finish by myself is 12' X 12' 'cause that's all I can place, screed, float, and hand trowell to a flat smooth finish before it get's too dry to work.
Hand finishing concrete is damn hard work that requires good tools and a fair amount of skill/ practice, and trust me, you don't want to try to learn to run a power trowel By yourself.
I once delievered a 36 " power trowell to a homeowner and he told me " yea runnin' one o' them ain't tough, I've seen it done lot's of times... when I went back to pick it up the next day, I had to chip it out of the slab, and his wife told me he was still in the hospital with multiple broken bones... Think about it, either way your gonna pay a pro. RED
 

Ramblur

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
449
Location
Central FLA
Ditto with red caddy. I've poured concrete for what seems my whole life and
have all the tools, vibratory screed,floats,power finisher. That said,I hired a
full crew for my house and garage. Me, I would probably take on a 16 x 20
with at least two helpers but thats with plenty of experience. Helpers without
much experience still kinda **** and that concrete is never going to wait on
you to get it together... Nothing much funnier than watching a newby learn to
"dance" with a power trowel... Gee, it looks SO easy. They will kick your @ss
given the chance. Pony up the extra couple hundred, you'll never be sorry
you did.
 

HOT DAMN!

Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Messages
11
Location
Chicago
I have been in the construction industry for most of my adult life and while I can appreciate your ambition, DO NOT try to tackle this without some experienced help.

I don’t mean to hamper your desire to give this a go, but this is definitely not the task for a beginner. I liken concrete work to drywall taping in that anyone can do it but it takes learned skills through time, almost an art form to do it well. And in drywall work you can sand and mud and sand and mud but an F’ed up concrete job is forever.

Great advice given above, save some extra scratch and cruise through the local job sites, most guys love the extra cash side jobs offer.

Good Luck.
 

Rrumbler

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
367
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Another "voice of experience" chiming in: you shouldn't try this by yourself. If you want a good job of it, you're going to need experienced help. For what you're doing, you need a couple of good finish concrete guys, and you can be the grunt. I used to pour and finish patios, driveways, and sidewalks, with a neighbor; we were both experienced, and anything over a couple hundred feet was "hiring extra help time". The placing alone is a two man job, and depending on the weather and the mix, that stuff can get away from you real quick, so you have to get on the finishing right away. All things considered, the $485 isn't too bad a deal. Hate raining on somebody's parade, but I've fixed too many screw ups that somebody couldn't handle, and hate to see it happen to anybody.
 
OP
M
Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Messages
22
Location
Georgia
Thanks everyone, I contacted another finisher in the area. He is more than I had original budgeted but less than the guy who went up on me. He is pouring the concrete today While I work overtime to pay him. I'll get pictures of the slab and post them if I can figure out how.
MKR
 

Ray The Wrench

New member
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
2
Location
gloucester city nj
site prep ,forms etc ...you can do your self and HIRE a pro have him check out your work /approve and pour .For the inexperienced getting to the finished product [ which everyone sees etc] is worth a pro ....Ive poured thousands of yards of crete and paved millions of tons of asphalt [the last project i was on was 2.5 million tons of hma 96 lane miles not including bridge decks] ,try to find a guy to do a "side job" most will ,check a few job sites out.
And stat by saying "are you the foreman?" if not ask that laborer/ finisher your questions ,The foreman thing.....yeah the dont like "their guys" doin side work,usually and unions dont llike it either ,but the guys usually do side work.
good luck
 

47bob

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
16
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Ive been around this stuff for 30 years and my best advice to you is to contact a service rep. from the concrete supplier. He can usually help you with equipment, tools, setup and how-to advice. Best yet get two day-laborers from our neighbors to the south and they will all but do it for you. Bob
 
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