Help Me Sort Some 1/4 Inch Hex Bits

[Phog Allen]

Gents, I really need to source a decent set of 1/4 inch drive insert bits. I am open to brands but do admit to some PB Swiss envy for the insert bits. Wera and Wiha seem to have a pretty stellar reputation in this department as well. I have used DeWalt, Milwaukee, and other store brands both impact and regular, and honestly none of them have made a great showing of it. Even in non impact use they fail pretty quickly.

Impact or regular? Ninety-five percent non impact use. I know they are meant for different uses and are priced accordingly. However, I was thinking by buying impact rated bits I could also use them in manual drivers and cordless screwdrivers as well and would not have to duplicate as many choices. I also know that typically these are available in -25mm(1 inch) lengths and 50-75mm(2-3) lengths as well. Holders are also available impact rated.

Security versions for some of the Torx and hex? I know you cannot use them in an impact but it would help to cut back on numbers of bits. Keep them separate? I also note there are nifty little sets like the Bostitch 32 piece set with ratchet for about $30. Certainly not impact duty but even with cordless use I am suspect of cheap bits. Right now Wiha USA has great pricing on their Impactor series.

Almost forgot. No auto mechanic here. I am an electrical maintenance guy and could wind up using these on anything from a commercial cooking range to a 3 phase motor controller cabinet. Most used bits; 2&3 Philips, some Torx, a few square drive fasteners too. I use the impact only for removal of tough fasteners. I never use an impact to install fasteners into mechanical or electrical equipment. Sorry for the long post but I wanted to cover the bases accurately. Oh BTW, nut setters would be a good option too. Thanks.

 

[MaineGuide]

The newest Milwaukee (with the red sleeve) have held up well for me, much better than the previous (first) generation.

I just ordered a half dozen of my 3 most used sizes (T25, T10, #2 Square) of the Vega "Imapactech" from McFeely's. Made of S2 steel with machined tips, they seem like they may be decent. Not as expensive as Wera/Wiha, but not cheap either. I'll report back as I will need all sizes for a big job in the coming weeks.

 

[Jmonnty]

I use mostly TR Torx, Witte is the best I've used and Wiha is second best.
I have had decent luck with the Milwaukee shockwave in the impact just because they are cheap, the wiha wore out just the same.
Fein sells a great set of torx impact bits if you use them.

Added: I do commercial lock work and replace my bits/drivers at the first sign of wear, I can't afford stripped fasteners.

 

[hautpot]

I used Wera and Wiha impact, I prefer Wiha because they are cheaper. Stack em' deep. I do Like the collar on Wera are thinner because I can use them directly in the drive.

 

[Phog Allen]

The newest Milwaukee (with the red sleeve) have held up well for me, much better than the previous (first) generation.

I just ordered a half dozen of my 3 most used sizes (T25, T10, #2 Square) of the Vega "Imapactech" from McFeely's. Made of S2 steel with machined tips, they seem like they may be decent. Not as expensive as Wera/Wiha, but not cheap either. I'll report back as I will need all sizes for a big job in the coming weeks.

Please do. This is one area where moving toward your favourite brands 'just because' is not really a good option. At their very best these are consumable products. I don't care what name is on them. Sooner or later you break them or wear them out.

I use mostly TR Torx, Witte is the best I've used and Wiha is second best.
I have had decent luck with the Milwaukee shockwave in the impact just because they are cheap, the wiha wore out just the same.
Fein sells a great set of torx impact bits if you use them.

Added: I do commercial lock work and replace my bits/drivers at the first sign of wear, I can't afford stripped fasteners.

Ah, I had forgotten about Witte. They certainly know how to make screwdrivers. Should have thought of them sooner. Thanks. And your last point is something more blokes should pay attention to. Nothing looks worse than knackered up fasteners on the front of expensive equipment.

I used Wera and Wiha impact, I prefer Wiha because they are cheaper. Stack em' deep. I do Like the collar on Wera are thinner because I can use them directly in the drive.

I knew there was a reason I looked at Wera and Wiha first. Wihatools.com has some really great prices right now on their Terminator impact set. Sorry for the misnaming above. Wera sells bits under the Impaktor name and Wiha's is Terminator.

Thanks for the great responses.

 

[Dave455]

Well I think you've already said it, it's got to be PB Swiss!

I've worked in the defence industry doing a lot of repetitive assembly work with various bits, and the PB are by far the best!

Wiha are O.K, in fact quite good, but they are not as accurately made or finished as the PB, and show wear more easily. Compare them under a loupe and you will see. Compare again after a couple of hundred screws and you will see the wear. Remember, price doesn't always equate to performance, especially when you compare an imported bit to a domestic. Wiha are mid priced in Europe.

Wera are o.k. But I've broken a lot of these using powered assembly tools. Not so the PB, or even the Wiha!

I wouldn't trust ANY of those bits from the likes of Milwaukee or DeWalt etc. most of 'em struggle to make a power tool (their core business) without outsourcing so you havn't got much hope with the bits! As a PB user I can't help laughing when I see folks buying boxes of 50 bits. I've occasionally bought the 10 packs of PB bits, but in most cases still have 9 of 'em in the packet!

I'm assuming you are in the U.S, in which case I wouldn't disregard your domestic manufacturers. Zephyr are also top end in my opinion, and are pretty much standard in the British aviation industry, despite being an expensive import!

For your intended use, I would probably lean slightly toward the PB. They are really aimed at this sort of work rather than Automotive repair so I doubt you will have regret's!

In my 'go bag' I have plastic box containing regular 1/4 inch bits in 5 slotted sizes, 3 Pozi, 3Phillips, Imperial and Metric hex, and 6 Torx. I use these with the two sizes of magnetic bit driver I also carry. I can handle an lot of different fasteners with a small package, and really appreciate the subtle colour coding of the different types when I'm swapping them around!

I have another box with a similar selection of power bits in two lengths which I use mostly with air tools!

 

[Phog Allen]

Hi!

Actually you simply need different kind of bits for different tasks, that will minimize wear and pretty much safeguard you from stripped fasteners.

For soft screw-joints (like in wood, were torque rises continuously) you should use a bit that is hard to very hard, like Wera "H" or Wiha "HOT" bits.

For hard screw-joints (like in metal, were torque rises abruptly close to the end) you should use a bit that is rather tough than just hard, like Wera "Z" or Wiha "ZOT" bits.

For use in your impact driver, you should use impact bits like Wera "Impaktor" or Wiha "MaxxTor", best results of course when also using the appropriate bit-holder.

Personally I use Wera bits almost exclusively as they have proven their reliability over time, especially in combination with a cordless drill/driver or impact.

What I can recommend is:

I use this set for everything I do by hand/ with ratcheting screwdriver:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003GDISZW/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I use this type for soft screw-joints with non-impact cordless drill/driver:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A8QETDU/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I use this type for hard screw-joints with non-impact cordless drill/driver:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A8QN378/?tag=atomicindus08-20

And I use this type with my cordless impact:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005HFN2YE/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I do have other Bits from various companies like Snap-On (a lot of them are actually made by Wera, especially the Diamond series), Wiha, Proxxon Industrial, Festool and a few I forgot about. In the end I keep going back to Wera every time.

All that being said, bits are consumables no matter how good and pricey they are.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Oliver, thank you for the great reply. A very informative post and it is always good to have hands on experience shared about products. And links to go along with it!

Well I think you've already said it, it's got to be PB Swiss!

I've worked in the defence industry doing a lot of repetitive assembly work with various bits, and the PB are by far the best!

Wiha are O.K, in fact quite good, but they are not as accurately made or finished as the PB, and show wear more easily. Compare them under a loupe and you will see. Compare again after a couple of hundred screws and you will see the wear. Remember, price doesn't always equate to performance, especially when you compare an imported bit to a domestic. Wiha are mid priced in Europe.

Wera are o.k. But I've broken a lot of these using powered assembly tools. Not so the PB, or even the Wiha!

I wouldn't trust ANY of those bits from the likes of Milwaukee or DeWalt etc. most of 'em struggle to make a power tool (their core business) without outsourcing so you havn't got much hope with the bits! As a PB user I can't help laughing when I see folks buying boxes of 50 bits. I've occasionally bought the 10 packs of PB bits, but in most cases still have 9 of 'em in the packet!

I'm assuming you are in the U.S, in which case I wouldn't disregard your domestic manufacturers. Zephyr are also top end in my opinion, and are pretty much standard in the British aviation industry, despite being an expensive import!

For your intended use, I would probably lean slightly toward the PB. They are really aimed at this sort of work rather than Automotive repair so I doubt you will have regret's!

In my 'go bag' I have plastic box containing regular 1/4 inch bits in 5 slotted sizes, 3 Pozi, 3Phillips, Imperial and Metric hex, and 6 Torx. I use these with the two sizes of magnetic bit driver I also carry. I can handle an lot of different fasteners with a small package, and really appreciate the subtle colour coding of the different types when I'm swapping them around!

I have another box with a similar selection of power bits in two lengths which I use mostly with air tools!

Dave, great information and opinion. Yes, I am in the States. Zephyr is a name I have not heard in a long time. I recognise it but have no experience with their products. Another nice rabbit trail to follow.

PB Swiss is one of the few brands I have rarely if ever seen a poor review concerning their products. You lot over in Blighty have an easier time of it sourcing the products than us Yanks but it is getting better here.

As you mentioned when importing prices start to escalate pretty quickly. One of their bit kits with the longer ratchet handle and I think about twenty bits is over $160 U.S. including carriage. So yeah, they come at a stiff premium.

Still, I am all about quality and these would last me a good while with my use. The main issue is sourcing kits with Imperial hex drivers and sockets. Most of the sets, which are the only reasonably priced way to buy any of these brands, are typically sourced with metric hex drivers and 1/4 inch drive sockets. Just so, since their main market is Europe. So you have to find a way to pick and choose the pieces of kit you need or want.

I do note that after taking a quick look at the PB Swiss U.S. site they now have more direct buying available and the prices are moderating somewhat with the exchange rate going our way a bit. They also have a link for Amazon Prime listed on their website main page I don't remember seeing before. It would be great to get them in the U.S. Amazon ecosystem. They used to list them then they disappeared for awhile and are evidently back. Amazon is usually the priciest option here though for European tools. There is also the Tool Lady web site. Their selection is not as broad though. Thanks again and feel free to add to the thread. Good stuff so far.

 

[Phog Allen]

I wanted to add some links to PB Swiss USA site for those interested. The first is a link to the set I referenced above and the image from their site. All ownership of said photo goes to PB Swiss. And a following link to the Tool Lady. If we can get decent options through Amazon it will be a big help.

PB Swiss Driver Kit

Tool Lady

 

[Jmonnty]

I forgot about Zephyr and Apex, I have master set at my bench a combo of both. They're great for hand driving on precise work but I haven't bought them in bulk in my most common sizes to carry around and toss out.

-Montgomery

 

[MaineGuide]

The Vega Impactech bits and holders I ordered arrived in the last few days. Initial impression of them is that they are high quality. The tips seem to be well machined, the two Torx sizes fit nicely in the respective GRK's that they will drive. The square drive bits fit well in the screws I intend to use them on. I drove a few screws with each and they performed well but time will tell.

 

[zcbauer89]

Hi!

Actually you simply need different kind of bits for different tasks, that will minimize wear and pretty much safeguard you from stripped fasteners.

For soft screw-joints (like in wood, were torque rises continuously) you should use a bit that is hard to very hard, like Wera "H" or Wiha "HOT" bits.

For hard screw-joints (like in metal, were torque rises abruptly close to the end) you should use a bit that is rather tough than just hard, like Wera "Z" or Wiha "ZOT" bits.

For use in your impact driver, you should use impact bits like Wera "Impaktor" or Wiha "MaxxTor", best results of course when also using the appropriate bit-holder.

Personally I use Wera bits almost exclusively as they have proven their reliability over time, especially in combination with a cordless drill/driver or impact.

What I can recommend is:

I use this set for everything I do by hand/ with ratcheting screwdriver:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003GDISZW/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I use this type for soft screw-joints with non-impact cordless drill/driver:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A8QETDU/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I use this type for hard screw-joints with non-impact cordless drill/driver:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A8QN378/?tag=atomicindus08-20

And I use this type with my cordless impact:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005HFN2YE/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I do have other Bits from various companies like Snap-On (a lot of them are actually made by Wera, especially the Diamond series), Wiha, Proxxon Industrial, Festool and a few I forgot about. In the end I keep going back to Wera every time.

All that being said, bits are consumables no matter how good and pricey they are.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Oliver, that was an EXCELLENT reply. I appreciate that very much, although it wasn't directed at me. Personally, I really like Wiha bits.

 

[tarbellb]

I personally havent found the "impact" rated bits to be much better, but I have only used the store brands.

I do however find buying well made USA bits from Cripe to be a very good compromise. They have tons of Bosch branded USA made bits, from phillips to square and everything in between.

Usually I buy 2-3" long hex drive bits, perhaps the added shaft length adds to the impact abuse?

Let us know what you end up finding, I just bought a ton of the HF clear organizer bins and sorted all my bits. Im now finding all the missing sizes/types that I would like to fill in.

 

[Jmonnty]

I had a bad batch of the Milwaukee bits last week so I pulled the trigger on some Apex acr bits, they might be the best bits I've ever used. I was already a fan of their torx bits. Price is the only drawback but I'm using them professionally.

 

[bonneyman]

I'd give the Makita Gold line a look see.

I finally snagged a little set. Last week used one on removing a sheet rock screw out of wood. Fit really nice.

http://makitatools.com/en-us/Modules/Accessories/ImpactGOLD/Default.aspx