Help me visualize garage spacing

[dover21]

My wife and I are planning our barndominium build to be completed within the next two years or so. I'm concerned about the square footage of the garage area. We had initially compromised on 2000sq ft of living space and 2000sq ft of garage space. The problem I'm having is trying to conceptualize what can actually fit into that space. For a 2000 sq ft space I'd be looking at 40' wide and 50' deep. What I want in that space is two dedicated parking spots for an SUV and a full sized pickup. I need a dedicated area for a wash bay in order to do detailing, a dedicated area with a two post lift for working on vehicles, and approx 15' x 15' for a dedicated workout area. I know if it's within our budget, I'll go larger, but I'm wanting to be cost conscious because she'd like a pool in the backyard too.

So, I guess my question is are there tools out there to help me visualize that sort of layout or does anyone here have pics of that type of sq footage with similar areas within? Thanks in advance.

 

[nvrenufrm]

I'm not a computer program type guy, so I would go with simple craft paper (cereal box-whatever), and scale it say 1" equals one foot, I know that would be 50" x 40". In your case (maybe cut it down in half, say 1/2" equals 1 foot), now 25" x 20".
Then cut out individual pieces to mimic your vehicles, and your 15 x 15 work out area..you'll be able to place them in various places to see how best they will fit in that large area.

 

[John McA]

Ooh Ooh! Craft time:

Get some paper, suggest this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MNQFMNF/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Using the squares: Draw a 40x50 rectangle. This is a 1/4"=1'-0" scale drawing of your intended space.

Cut some rectangles out of another sheet of paper, label them. Size according to use conservatively.

Place these on, within the 40x50 rectangle in different locations without overlapping. Leave space for circulation.

Take a photo of each.
Choose from this selection.

Post pic on GJ.
Let fun begin.

Good luck,
John McA

 

[rpcraft]

Just use a free online resource like tinkercad where you can draw in 2d. It is very easy to make rectangles, squares, circles, ovals, and other shapes in 2d. You just make a big box using your given ft dimensions and change the grids to be ft or inches, whichever works best for you.

 

[vrinner]

I built a scale clay model of my layout...more for the backyard layout but still helped me visualize the space.

Ford garage - 40X60X20

Just signed contract with building installer! 40 X 60 X 20 Building Manufacture - Metallic Building Company Location of build, Placentia, CA Second level mezzanine will be 40 X 20 that will be a music room/office and stained glass studio. Eventually will put a large deck connecting the...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[John McA]

Moving forward,

Next, do the same for your 2000 sq ft living space on the floor above. You will need to cut out two rectangles to represent 'stairs' at each floor. Or, you can address this by locating the vertical circulation outside the building envelope.

Determine your required floor to floor height and overall height. Absolute minimum clearance for a lift is 12ft. The thickness of the structure may be determined by converting the span in feet to inches in depth. You will likely want columns to save $. Determine your 2nd floor clg height. Add 3-8ft for roof. This the overall height in your building envelope.

Visit your Building Dept./Planning Dept. Show them your building envelope. Ask what areas in their jurisdiction allow for this construction type. Suggest doing this prior to property purchase.

Finding a sloping site with a 30% grade with good access might be useful as you can achieve ground floor access on both floors.

This is a start.
Good luck,
John McA

 

[dover21]

Moving forward,

Next, do the same for your 2000 sq ft living space on the floor above. You will need to cut out two rectangles to represent 'stairs' at each floor. Or, you can address this by locating the vertical circulation outside the building envelope.

Determine your required floor to floor height and overall height. Absolute minimum clearance for a lift is 12ft. The thickness of the structure may be determined by converting the span in feet to inches in depth. You will likely want columns to save $. Determine your 2nd floor clg height. Add 3-8ft for roof. This the overall height in your building envelope.

Visit your Building Dept./Planning Dept. Show them your building envelope. Ask what areas in their jurisdiction allow for this construction type. Suggest doing this prior to property purchase.

Finding a sloping site with a 30% grade with good access might be useful as you can achieve ground floor access on both floors.

This is a start.
Good luck,
John McA

The house and garage are attached to one another. There's not going to be a second floor to the garage area. We'll be looking at a slab of over 4000sq ft including porch areas.

 

[dover21]

Ooh Ooh! Craft time:

Get some paper, suggest this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MNQFMNF/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Using the squares: Draw a 40x50 rectangle. This is a 1/4"=1'-0" scale drawing of your intended space.

Cut some rectangles out of another sheet of paper, label them. Size according to use conservatively.

Place these on, within the 40x50 rectangle in different locations without overlapping. Leave space for circulation.

Take a photo of each.
Choose from this selection.

Post pic on GJ.
Let fun begin.

Good luck,
John McA

I'll swipe some graph paper from my son. He's not using it anyway. You guys are chock full of ideas I hadn't thought of. That's what I like about this forum.

 

[John McA]

I'll swipe some graph paper from my son. He's not using it anyway. You guys are chock full of ideas I hadn't thought of. That's what I like about this forum.

You might need this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00006IF5G/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Tape the back side of two pieces of letter sized paper on the long side to achieve the size you need for 1/4 scale.
Or, save some time and draw the whole thing at 1/8th scale.
Good luck,
John McA

 

[John McA]

The house and garage are attached to one another. There's not going to be a second floor to the garage area. We'll be looking at a slab of over 4000sq ft including porch areas.

That's nice. Then you only need a wall and not a floor for the occupancy separation. If you put a 10ft wide porch between, then you don't even need that. Is your area subject to low impact development or LID? Where are you planning to construct this extravagance?
Vr
John McA

 

[65ranchero]

A student architects scale can be your friend.

 

[dover21]

That's nice. Then you only need a wall and not a floor for the occupancy separation. If you put a 10ft wide porch between, then you don't even need that. Is your area subject to low impact development or LID? Where are you planning to construct this extravagance?
Vr
John McA

We just purchased a 6 acre lot that is currently a peanut field. Within the next couple of weeks the peanuts should be harvested as well as the ancient chicken houses that still occupy a portion getting removed. This is in Coffee County in Alabama.

 

[larry_g]

Home Design Software for PC and Mac | Interior Design and Landscape Design | Punch! Software

Plan and design your dream home inside and out with our intuitive design tools and visualize your projects in 3D before you start.

www.punchsoftware.com

Years ago we used a product from the above company. It worked well for us. However what I used is no longer available and it seems that they broke it up into outside, inside, and landscaping. It was nice to be able to see things in 3D. It was well worth it for my wife and I to see OUR ideas come together.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[dover21]

We were with my mother-in-law looking at the neighboring lot she's interested in and I had my wife describe the red iron workshop on the adjacent property. It's owned by the people selling the lots by the way. She says it looks like 2000 sq ft. I told her that it was 50 x 80. She nearly flipped because she has no spatial sense for an exterior. I had to convince her that there was no way I could do anything that I wanted comfortably in less than 2000 sq ft. I think she gets it a little better now.

 

[John McA]

We just purchased a 6 acre lot that is currently a peanut field. Within the next couple of weeks the peanuts should be harvested as well as the ancient chicken houses that still occupy a portion getting removed. This is in Coffee County in Alabama.

I am not from that area so, I would recommend a professional or yourself to check if you will need to change from agricultural use to residential etc., to reduce surprises. Due diligence and verify is key.
Good luck,
John McA

 

[zc15]

There's a free app called magicplan that is super intuitive to use. I didn't want to spend the time to learn sketchup, so this has been helpful to visualize floorplanning

 

[dover21]

I am not from that area so, I would recommend a professional or yourself to check if you will need to change from agricultural use to residential etc., to reduce surprises. Due diligence and verify is key.
Good luck,
John McA

It's already been zoned as residential. There were 8 lots of 5 to 6 acres apiece that the farmers sold off for custom homes. Very few building restrictions exist other than no home smaller than 1900sq ft and no chicken houses or cattle.

 

[dover21]

There's a free app called magicplan that is super intuitive to use. I didn't want to spend the time to learn sketchup, so this has been helpful to visualize floorplanning

Will definitely check that out.

 

[mrodgers]

I use Excel to play around with floor plans. Make the cells square by adjusting the width to match the height (not the same number, play and get them square.) Then I draw out my plans on it rather than on graph paper by hand. I have a ton of drawings of different things and designs like cabinets and my floor plans.

Or, as I am not actually building something but I like playing with it, learning Sketchup isn't too difficult and a lot of fun.

 

[John McA]

It's already been zoned as residential. There were 8 lots of 5 to 6 acres apiece that the farmers sold off for custom homes. Very few building restrictions exist other than no home smaller than 1900sq ft and no chicken houses or cattle.

Just curious: What was the ball park price for 5-6 acres?

 

[dover21]

Just curious: What was the ball park price for 5-6 acres?

All of the lots were listed at 65K. We got it for 63. In the neighborhood I'm in now 2 acres goes for 65K. The new lot is only 1.5mi away from my current house.

 

[cvairwerks]

Best way to visualize it, if you don't do sizes in your head well, is get some survey stakes, and a couple rolls of 2" barrier tape....like crime scene tape, and stake out the building, doors and interior walls. Use cardboard flats for tools and tape for the bigger stuff.

 

[John McA]

I use Excel to play around with floor plans. Make the cells square by adjusting the width to match the height (not the same number, play and get them square.) Then I draw out my plans on it rather than on graph paper by hand. I have a ton of drawings of different things and designs like cabinets and my floor plans.

Or, as I am not actually building something but I like playing with it, learning Sketchup isn't too difficult and a lot of fun.

Does excel still have that Easter egg hidden flight simulator with the credits?
I remember that from my Windows NT days.
Our Architectural Studio uses Vector-works and paper, of course. Shameless plug:

McAnulty + von Sydow Architecture

Architecture - Interiors - Landscape Live by Design. View Our Work

www.mvsarchitecture.com

 

[Homebody]

Screw "scale size".
If you already have the property, get yourself some tree marking tape and stakes and lay it out to actual size and start driving vehicles in it and mark with spray paint other items like the lift, tool boxes, etc. Only then will you get a truly accurate visualization of how much space things take up.
Most people don't take into consideration a persons size, odd things you forget, or room needed to move something throughout a shop when doing scale drawings. A 4' aisle looks great on paper until you forget about the 60" mower deck you're trying to get through the shop.

 

[John McA]

With this amount of acreage you may have/need a few pieces of equipment that need space or a structure for storage as well. Or use the porches?

 

[dover21]

Screw "scale size".
If you already have the property, get yourself some tree marking tape and stakes and lay it out to actual size and start driving vehicles in it and mark with spray paint other items like the lift, tool boxes, etc. Only then will you get a truly accurate visualization of how much space things take up.
Most people don't take into consideration a persons size, odd things you forget, or room needed to move something throughout a shop when doing scale drawings. A 4' aisle looks great on paper until you forget about the 60" mower deck you're trying to get through the shop.

I had thought about going to an empty parking lot and marking off the dimensions to get a feel for the footprint. I can't go out to the land yet because the peanuts are still in the ground. Should be harvested within the next couple of weeks.

 

[dover21]

With this amount of acreage you may have/need a few pieces of equipment that need space or a structure for storage as well. Or use the porches?

My mother-in-law and I have contemplated getting a tractor for taking care of the enormity of grass that'll need to be cut. I could store it, but I think I might need an additional 400sq ft for that

 

[John McA]

After watching 'vise grip garage' who had his new garage flooded in Tennessee I would suggest any new structure be carefully sited to ensure proper drainage wrt torrential rain. Especially near hurricane prone areas.
Good luck with your build.
John McA

 

[dover21]

After watching 'vise grip garage' who had his new garage flooded in Tennessee I would suggest any new structure be carefully sited to ensure proper drainage wrt torrential rain. Especially near hurricane prone areas.
Good luck with your build.
John McA

That’s definitely in my mind as the lot is relatively flat for this area. When my site gets cleared I’m definitely going to make sure that our pad is not low lying relative to the surrounding land.

 

[John McA]

That’s definitely in my mind as the lot is relatively flat for this area. When my site gets cleared I’m definitely going to make sure that our pad is not low lying relative to the surrounding land.

Did you have a survey done? With flatter land the drainage can be tricky to visualize. Your land is outside flood plains, correct? If you build on a built up pad then you might wind up with a moat around your castle. Kidding.

 

[racecougar]

This one is 1800 sq ft (30x60).

 

[kbs2244]

I like the empty parking lot marking for getting a feel for the size

 

[dover21]

I did a layout on grid paper last night and was surprised to see how spacious 2000sq ft is. I believe I can easily fit our two daily drivers, a single vehicle in the wash bay area, a vehicle on the two post lift, and our power rack with deadlift area and rower plus bike easily. There’s still ample room along the walls for a sink, cabinets, shelves, and an air compressor. I’m still going to mark it all out in a parking lot to get a better physical feel for it though. I appreciate all the feedback.

 

[Zeke]

From an economical POV, 4000 sq ft under one roof is not the best bang for your bucks. Plus, that's a enormous size from an elevation view. I think you should start your planning thinking about the roof and roof line. Builders build 2 story houses for a reason. Optimally, speaking of just a house, you get twice as much floor space under one roof and on one slab as opposed to twice as much roof and concrete.

Building from a clean sheet of paper can be a rough experience, especially if you are new to the game. If you've seen an example of what you like, that's a start you can make changes on and still know something about what it will be when it's built.

I suggest adding some interesting features. Split level, for instance with a partial basement if the water table isn't going to be a problem. Areas partially buried tend to be easier to heat and cool. Great place for the work out room and maybe a small home theater if that was part of your living space plans.

I have nothing to add about the garage part. As they say, go big and have enough doors.

So, going with 40 x 50 let's say you are thinking of a 40' wide gable roof, say 4:12 pitch. At the ridge there will be quite a bit of attic space. With a couple of architectural features such as dormer windows, you could have a pretty nice space up there. Hell, you could almost have a bowling lane. Independently heated and cooled, you don't have to use it all the time.

I also suggest having a mechanical room. Your house and garage will need HVAC and hot water (even if just for the house) and it's a great place to have the air compressor. You're thinking about a pool? You can plan your electrical for the pool pump in advance and get it inside along with the filter. You just need an outside and inside access door plus vents. If it works out with the utilities, you can put your main electrical panel there too.

I lived in AL for one year. It's hot, it's humid, it's cold and it rains a lot. But being outdoors is nice much of the time. Screened porches, decks and patios are great for getting out and cooking etc. Notching out an entire corner under the roof would make a great spot. Put in a chimney for a grill, smoker, oven, even a fireplace.

 

[dover21]

From an economical POV, 4000 sq ft under one roof is not the best bang for your bucks. Plus, that's a enormous size from an elevation view. I think you should start your planning thinking about the roof and roof line. Builders build 2 story houses for a reason. Optimally, speaking of just a house, you get twice as much floor space under one roof and on one slab as opposed to twice as much roof and concrete.

Building from a clean sheet of paper can be a rough experience, especially if you are new to the game. If you've seen an example of what you like, that's a start you can make changes on and still know something about what it will be when it's built.

I suggest adding some interesting features. Split level, for instance with a partial basement if the water table isn't going to be a problem. Areas partially buried tend to be easier to heat and cool. Great place for the work out room and maybe a small home theater if that was part of your living space plans.

I have nothing to add about the garage part. As they say, go big and have enough doors.

So, going with 40 x 50 let's say you are thinking of a 40' wide gable roof, say 4:12 pitch. At the ridge there will be quite a bit of attic space. With a couple of architectural features such as dormer windows, you could have a pretty nice space up there. Hell, you could almost have a bowling lane. Independently heated and cooled, you don't have to use it all the time.

I also suggest having a mechanical room. Your house and garage will need HVAC and hot water (even if just for the house) and it's a great place to have the air compressor. You're thinking about a pool? You can plan your electrical for the pool pump in advance and get it inside along with the filter. You just need an outside and inside access door plus vents. If it works out with the utilities, you can put your main electrical panel there too.

I lived in AL for one year. It's hot, it's humid, it's cold and it rains a lot. But being outdoors is nice much of the time. Screened porches, decks and patios are great for getting out and cooking etc. Notching out an entire corner under the roof would make a great spot. Put in a chimney for a grill, smoker, oven, even a fireplace.

The plan is for a 2 story barndominium. The roof line will probably be straigh, so no weird angles or height deviations. Our current house is 2600sq ft and we want just a little less, 3bed, 2.5ba, and a dedicated office/library. I sure as hell don’t want to become house poor so I’m looking at ways to supplement our incomes with things we enjoy. I’m opening a home based detailing operation for Saturday appointments only and I don’t know what she has planned yet. She and I both are full time professional. She owns her own practice and the building and I’m just a government weenie.

 

[dover21]

I’m also becoming educated on wiring and other skills that will rack up money fast if left to subs.

 

[Zeke]

Lessee, you're going with a 4000 sq ft slab with a 2000 sq ft garage, yet the house is 2000 sq ft of 2 story.
I guess my addition skills are fucked up.

But you don't want to be 'house poor'. Concrete must be cheap there. Here that would be approaching $40,000 with no footings. Houses can be built on the cheap for $350/ sq ft, no decoration. $700,000. What does a 200 sq ft garage building cost? IDK, never built one. Here, a 20 x 20 is $40,000 with nothing inside.

An entry level bare bones 4000 sq ft 'barndominium' would be a cool million. About $75,000 for the permit. No architect. No utilities.

 

[nolimits76]

@Zeke just looking at your location under your logo you are in Long Beach, CA. I've not lived or worked in AL but pretty sure those prices are going to be considerably less than your location. Looks like Enterprise, AL is the major town in Coffee County, AL and I quickly pulled these for reference.

Example 1 = Existing structure, 3,919sf @ $424,000 = $108/sf

2627 Highway 51, Enterprise, AL 36330 | Zillow

2627 Highway 51, Enterprise AL, is a Single Family home that contains 3895 sq ft and was built in 1962.It contains 2 bathrooms.This home last sold for $410,000 in November 2022. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $482,000, which has increased by $2,232 in the last 30 days.The Rent...

www.zillow.com

Example 2 = New construction, 2,250sf @ $375,000 = $167/sf

203 Cypress Ln, Enterprise, AL 36330 | Zillow

203 Cypress Ln, Enterprise AL, is a Single Family home that contains 2220 sq ft.It contains 4 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $340,100, which has increased by $1,048 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is $2,310/mo, which has...

www.zillow.com

Doubtful either example nails their situation perfectly, especially considering the whole 5 minutes of research I put into the effort. Also, the numbers above include land costs. Their numbers to build would exclude that since they already own/financed their land separately. Hard to say for sure as finish levels determine so much, but I'm guessing they will be $110-125/sf finished out for both the house & shop combined.

I do agree that if OP can put the garage portion underground, and build out the living space above, that will help decrease construction costs. Also, thermal effects will be amazing. Had a family relative do this and his garage feels like he has a/c during the summer and a heater during the winter.

I might add that I have done a custom built home. Well, I designed and then interviewed & hired a builder for the day-to-day operations. For about 2 years I did lots of research and walked through a plethora of homes gaining ideas and learning what I liked and wanted. In this interim I used AutoCAD to create, revise, revise & revise some more the floorplans, LOL. I can visualize things pretty well, but one of the things that continued to amaze me was the house shrunk and grew throughout the building process. Laying out the position of the house on the land, it seemed way too small. During framing it began to feel large enough. Then came sheetrock and it shrunk again.

All visual effects mind you. Just my point is that going on-site and using flags or string line may or may not be beneficial. I'm lucky that I have AutoCAD at my disposal and have for most my career. There aren't too many projects I embark on where I don't draw up something to help get my head clear. Here is a recent sampling where I laid out my workbenches and was considering some different lighting options -- won't bore with those details.

 

[mogandave]

I am another fan of "paper-dolling" with scale cut-outs and grid-paper, which is much easier to visualize layouts than looking at a monitor.

We had CAD layouts of the plant floors with multiple layers. Do a big print out with the equipment, do a second without the equipment, cut the equipment out, tape the bare plant floor to the table and start moving stuff around.

If you already have the space, cardboard cut-outs on the floor work great as well.

 

[dover21]

@Zeke just looking at your location under your logo you are in Long Beach, CA. I've not lived or worked in AL but pretty sure those prices are going to be considerably less than your location. Looks like Enterprise, AL is the major town in Coffee County, AL and I quickly pulled these for reference.

Example 1 = Existing structure, 3,919sf @ $424,000 = $108/sf

2627 Highway 51, Enterprise, AL 36330 | Zillow

2627 Highway 51, Enterprise AL, is a Single Family home that contains 3895 sq ft and was built in 1962.It contains 2 bathrooms.This home last sold for $410,000 in November 2022. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $482,000, which has increased by $2,232 in the last 30 days.The Rent...

www.zillow.com

Example 2 = New construction, 2,250sf @ $375,000 = $167/sf

203 Cypress Ln, Enterprise, AL 36330 | Zillow

203 Cypress Ln, Enterprise AL, is a Single Family home that contains 2220 sq ft.It contains 4 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $340,100, which has increased by $1,048 in the last 30 days.The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is $2,310/mo, which has...

www.zillow.com

Doubtful either example nails their situation perfectly, especially considering the whole 5 minutes of research I put into the effort. Also, the numbers above include land costs. Their numbers to build would exclude that since they already own/financed their land separately. Hard to say for sure as finish levels determine so much, but I'm guessing they will be $110-125/sf finished out for both the house & shop combined.

I do agree that if OP can put the garage portion underground, and build out the living space above, that will help decrease construction costs. Also, thermal effects will be amazing. Had a family relative do this and his garage feels like he has a/c during the summer and a heater during the winter.

I might add that I have done a custom built home. Well, I designed and then interviewed & hired a builder for the day-to-day operations. For about 2 years I did lots of research and walked through a plethora of homes gaining ideas and learning what I liked and wanted. In this interim I used AutoCAD to create, revise, revise & revise some more the floorplans, LOL. I can visualize things pretty well, but one of the things that continued to amaze me was the house shrunk and grew throughout the building process. Laying out the position of the house on the land, it seemed way too small. During framing it began to feel large enough. Then came sheetrock and it shrunk again.

All visual effects mind you. Just my point is that going on-site and using flags or string line may or may not be beneficial. I'm lucky that I have AutoCAD at my disposal and have for most my career. There aren't too many projects I embark on where I don't draw up something to help get my head clear. Here is a recent sampling where I laid out my workbenches and was considering some different lighting options -- won't bore with those details.

What I’ve seen in our local market is $150/sq ft for most builds. There seems to be threshold where that amount drops. Over 3500sq ft it typically drops to 135/sq ft give or take. Those figures go mainly for new builds including the lots.