Help me with my fuse panel "OLD SPARKY"

[bczygan]

The service panel in my circa 1941 house is a 60Amp fuse panel with round buss type fuses. 2 30Amp main fuses and a bunch of 15 or 20 amp round fuses. One of the main 30Amp fuses has been replaced with 2 15 Amp fuses in loose holders wired in and stuffed in the panel. The round fuses have all been replaced with the resettable kind. After a while they corrode on the contacts until they don't work. I extend their life by sanding the contact point. Water sometimes gets into the panel. Some circuits work intermittently. For example, right now the kitchen and back hall don't work. I know the panel needs replacing and the whole house wiring needs renovation as it is not grounded. I even think the service entrance cable needs replacing as the insulation is gone to the point where you can see the braid of wires on the exterior. And the meter box is the old style where the meter is entirely in the box. For now I need to know what to do to make the system safe and functional. Then I need a step by step plan to upgrade the system. Photos soon. Some things I will want to ask:

How to install a new panel into the existing system.
What size and make of panel to use.
Running new circuits. How to fish and fasten.
How to install new service entrance cable.
Checking size and capacity of existing OH service drop.
GFCI, Arc fault and latest protection methods and equipment.
Outside lighting and power.
Supply for shop and garage.
Communications, security system, computer, TV and home control and automation.

 

[BigJohn20]

First and foremost, your service and panel needs replacing immediately. I'd look at getting that done ASAP, because it sounds like your fuse panel is a fire hazard. Short of ripping it out completely, there is no making it "safe." Corrosion is prevalent, and sanding down contacts is creating a gap that could lead to arcing and is a fire hazard. It's the same reason why you don't sand down corroded buses on newer panels with water damage. The breakers may seat loosely, which creates a potential for arcing.

The problem with doing a service upgrade is that every jurisdiction is different. Some just require the grounding be brought up to code, while others may require 2 SABC, smoke detectors, AFCIs, the works.

 

[bczygan]

Sounds like I need to install a new panel and start connecting existing circuits to it even before running new circuits or ground wires.
If the existing circuit wires won't reach the new panel, is there a way to junction them and extend them?

 

[Adrien]

Eaton makes a load center specifically designed for renovations and the "short wire" problem that goes along with them. It has bus bars built into it for splicing so you don't have to use wire nuts or any other splicing means inside of your panel.

http://www.eaton.com/Electrical/USA...cuitBreakers/BRRenovationLoadcenter/index.htm

The service entrance conductors are the responsibility of your Utility. I would call them if there is concern.

Adrien

 

[bczygan]

Eaton makes a load center specifically designed for renovations and the "short wire" problem that goes along with them. It has bus bars built into it for splicing so you don't have to use wire nuts or any other splicing means inside of your panel.

http://www.eaton.com/Electrical/USA...cuitBreakers/BRRenovationLoadcenter/index.htm

The service entrance conductors are the responsibility of your Utility. I would call them if there is concern.

Adrien

When you say service entrance conductors are you talking about the wires from the pole to the weather head? I know those are the utility company's. My only concern there is that they are adequate for the panel size I want to have. I call that the overhead service or service drop.
I was talking about the cable from there down the wall to the meter box and from the meter box inside to the main panel. I think those are all the owners responsibility.

 

[Adrien]

Anything before the meter (the line side) is the Utility, because the Utility owns the meter as well. Beyond the meter (the load side) is your responsibility.

Adrien

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Every situation is different. I helped a lady down the road, in a 100 YO farm house install a new meter socket/disconnect and panel in her house. It had been wired in the '50's and actually had decent wiring in it. It is a shotgun house, hallway down the middle, front to back, rooms on either side. Four 120v circuits, two overhead in the attic for lighting, one for each side of the house, and two more circuits underneath for receptacles, one for each side of the house. This was fed from a 60 amp fuse panel with a main and range pullouts and four screw in fuses. The panel was mounted originally on the outside of the house opposite side from the meter, toward the back (house was deeper on one side than the other. This was built over with additions and the panel ended up indoors after the additions covered the area.

We installed a new GE meter socket, disconnect, additional breaker panel combo unit on the side of the house near the rear, further to the rear than the original meter. The room on the inside was an unfinished laundry and pantry room. Just inside We installed a GE 30 circuit panel and connected the two with a short run of jacketed 4 wire service entrance cable.

I then installed four breakers each feeding a romex that ran up into the attic and across to the old panel. Two wires for lighting ended in 4x4 boxes in the attic, and the two for receptacles were left long to reach the old panel location in the wall several feet down from the attic. New circuits were installed in the pantry for 120v receptacles, dedicated washer and dryer receptacles and a stove receptacle for the adjoining kitchen.

When the day came for the new service, they simply removed the overhead, and ran a new one down the pole, and under the gravel drive to the new meter socket.

After that, I removed the old fuse panel, pulled the two lighting feeds up into the attic and joined them in their junction boxes and installed the covers. Then I went down to the old panel opening in the wall, and installed two 4x4 boxes and dropped the remaining two receptacle circuits down the wall to the boxes, and made junctions with the existing receptacle circuits that then went down under the house.

Dedicated kitchen counter circuits were added also. All of this possible by the open attic area, and walls that had studs and headers that extended about 6" above the ceiling joists, so the walls were open into the attic.

The stove works better now (it was a new electric stove) and things that didn't work correctly or erratically before (mostly electronics sensitive to power problems) now work OK. The old panel was failing.

Charles

 

[Norcal]

Anything before (the line side) the meter is the Utility, because the Utility owns the meter as well. Beyond the meter (the load side) is your responsibility.

Adrien

In most cases the customer owns wiring from the weatherhead down to the meter can & ahead of the service disconnect, underground SE conductors are usually the PoCo's property. This is the case in PG&E territory, but will vary from PoCo to PoCo.

 

[bczygan]

Sounds like there is a couple of ways to go at this. But first priority is getting the bad old panel out of service, or at least the parts of it that are sparking.
First I would check the drop from the pole to see it it was adequate for the panel I wanted.
I could install a new panel, connected to the existing service entrance wires coming in from the meter. I could temporarily feed from this to the old panel.
Then as I ran new grounded circuits I could disconnect circuits from the old panel and finally remove it when all the old circuits were replaced. At this point I could get the power company to disconnect the service for a day and replace the meter box and wiring from the weather head to the meter and from the meter to the main panel inside.
Then I could run any new circuits I desired.
Would this work?

 

[sberry]

Yes, a lot of ways to do it, sometimes the new service can be installed next to the old, I have relocated them too. Here there is some incentive to replace old equipment, don't usually give anyone much problem about upgrades. I usually have the service inspected, leave all the old snot in and operating until then and as soon as he walks out the door rig up to change over, new feeds to some jboxes to splice to old wiring for time being or have used old service box as j box as a temp till I rewire rest of house to new panel. One a while back I wanted to relocate service so I put it in and turn the old panel into a sub, it was in good shape but the meter and incoming was old and ragged. Hooked main loads, water heater, range to new service. Another I did for a mechanic bud most of the old wires actually reached where I mount new service, had to extend about 2 wires.
Since I am in charge of most of my own work or jobs I do I can rig it as I like, have the poco do it in one stop, disconnect the old and hook to the new. Last one I did I had the power off in the house about 15 minutes, had connectors, breakers all in the box, when they pulled in I started moving circuits.
When the insp come there were 2 breakers in the panel, one to outlet and one to a switched light in the work area. 50$ inspection fee.