Help me with my garage electrical question..

[xSoFx]

Hi there everyone, first post. I'm not sure if I can post pictures yet, as most forums require x amount of posts beforehand.

A couple questions:

I'm trying to figure out the amperage of the panel in my attached garage (shares a wall with a small back porch). I personally don't see an indicator on the panel that is legible, anyway.

It's an older one, 3 20 amp cartridge fuses. I'm not sure how these boxes work, but the "feeder" wire appears to connect to the furthest to the right fuse, then "jumpers" connect power to the additional fuses.

I would assume it's a 60 amp service, but I prefer to not assume anything, ever. Any help with this?

Secondly,

I flipped off all breakers in my main panel, two at a time(too cold to turn the main off completely.) And I still have power to the garage. It "appears" I have 2 service meters. One with the meter face itself which ties into the feed from the transformer, then one directly beneath it which is faceless, which feeds downward into the basement, and some smaller conduit feeds off into the garage from that meter.

Is my garage on it's own circuit? The feed wire to the garage appears to be rather small, in my opinion.

 

[soapii]

Just because you have three 20amp breakers does not mean you have 60 amp service.

Further, if the wire is "small" then it is very unlikely.

--Joe

 

[xSoFx]

Just because you have three 20amp breakers does not mean you have 60 amp service.

Further, if the wire is "small" then it is very unlikely.

--Joe

Like I said, I did not assume that. The central air in my home is fed straight off the 100 amp main breaker into a 30 amp panel with two 20 amp plug fuses, and the central air only requires a 15 amp circuit. With that being said, the previous home owner was an avid DIY'er and it appears he may have done his own electrical. I'm trying to sort it all out.

 

[StayThirsty]

Where is this subpanel fed from? Can you find the breaker that feeds it? Also can you see any markings on the incoming feeder for sizing? That will tell you what you can safely draw.

Pics would help too

 

[xSoFx]

I will take pics tomorrow morning and post them. The conduit which feeds the garage comes straight off the "meter" which has a blank face. Sorry for not using proper terminology. There is absolutely no panel in the basement which feeds the garage.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Meter socket with glass blanking plate. Does it have fuses plugged into the contacts in the blanked off meter socket? or just metal straps from one set of contacts to the other.

It looks sorta like this inside, but probably with old cloth wrapped wire. Wire may look small because its probably copper, probably not more than #6.

It may have cartridge-blade fuses installed from the top to bottom lugs in the place of a meter. It will certainly have flat copper straps plugged into the contacts if not fuses.

If your meter were removed, and I'm NOT suggesting you do this, you would probably find the meter socket is double tapped, with wires going to your fuse panel, and to the meter socket below it with the blanking plate.

At one time, a second meter might have been installed for separate billing at a special rate, for powering certain items that the POCO gave a discount on (they still do this for electric car connections and a few other things). This second meter socket may have originally been installed for the second meter for discount billing, and then repurposed for the garage feed.

Charles

 

[xSoFx]

Charles, this house was built in the 30-40's. Garage was built in the 90's. The plate you describe isn't see through so I wont know unless I open it. The part im worried about is this feed wire into the sub panel. If it was 6 gauge I'd be happy. It appears to be the same size as the rest of the wiring, which is 12/2.

Im looking to update to a breaker panel and hook up a 30 amp 220v heater. Which is my reason for this question. Ill be back tomorrow with pics

 

[madosta]

Pictures are worth a thousand words!

Wise of you to ask before just plugging it in!

 

[xSoFx]

Well, apparently I can't upload pictures. It just continuously fails.

Oh man, I know why. My S4 apparently takes very high quality pictures of ridiculous sizes. Selecting "actual size" on the editor blows up the picture so large it doesn't even fit on my monitor. Give me a minute..

 

[xSoFx]

If this works, this is the meter(s).


Inside the second meter base.


Garage panel

 

[CNGsaves]

I'd guess you have 100 amp service at the house meter.

I've got older house built in 50's and my meter housing is round, and it is only 60 amp service !!!

All electricians that I've had out to give me quotes for upgrades say the square meter housing indicates 100 amp.

OP, need to tell us your LOCATION as electrical codes vary by Country, State & City.

 

[StayThirsty]

It looks like 12awg or 14awg (faded insulation) coming into the bottom of that disconnect. Which would be 15-20 amp. It's 120v only FYI

Service to the house I'm guessing 100a if copper conductors or 60a if aluminum ( most likely)

 

[xSoFx]

I'd guess you have 100 amp service at the house meter.

I've got older house built in 50's and my meter housing is round, and it is only 60 amp service !!!

All electricians that I've had out to give me quotes for upgrades say the square meter housing indicates 100 amp.

OP, need to tell us your LOCATION as electrical codes vary by Country, State & City.

Emmet county, Iowa. Ive called an electrician several times for a quote but unless there is a guarentee you want work done they won't come out.

Yes the main feed is copper. 100 amp breaker panel in the basement. My main question is the feed associated with the garage. Its coming from the open housing in the picture. But what exactly is it feeding from? And, can I upgrade the service from there? Or must I feed it from the panel in the basement. Which in turn, would require freeing up breakers.

Much easier to call an electrician for a quote, but I refuse to pay $100/hour to someone that won't be bothered without an absolute promise of work.

 

[Norcal]

It looks like the safety switch has been reverse fed, not code compliant & VERY dangerous, the fuses are live even when the switch is off.

 

[xSoFx]

It looks like the safety switch has been reverse fed, not code compliant & VERY dangerous, the fuses are live even when the switch is off.

Makes sense as to why I was jolted when I attempted to pull a fuse with the power off.

With that said, am I going to be able to remove this 12/2 cable without the power company shutting off my power?

 

[Norcal]

Makes sense as to why I was jolted when I attempted to pull a fuse with the power off.

With that said, am I going to be able to remove this 12/2 cable without the power company shutting off my power?

PoCo's are not real fond of people messing with their cash register (meter), but it does need to go. We can only hope that they are not connected to the line side (power theft).

Was helping a friend w/ a compressor change at a mini mart minus the gas pumps, needed to change rotation of the compressor (208 volt 3 phase) & decided it would be easier to do it at the disconnect shut it off & start to disconnect a couple of wires before I got too far did a conduit trace & realized the damn thing was reverse fed, quickly tightened every thing & flipped phases at the compressor, suspect that the disco is still that way but was not being paid to fix it & CUSStomer would not have paid to fix it.

Couple of lessons, 1) Never trust previous work. 2) Always test, I did not get bit but sure could have.

 

[JoeFin]

I agree in essence with Norcal - Best to go with the nuclear option

Set a new 200 amp meter main where the meter is now, add the appropriate ground rod and pipe bond, feed 100 amps to the existing house subpanel in the basement and then feed 70 amps to a new garage panel.

Looks like you have 3/4" PVC conduit running inside the garage - not sure they would allow you in your jurisdiction to use PVC in the garage - they certainly don't allow it in the walls. You'll want to replace that with 1" EMT minimum. You can get 3ea #4awgs and #8awg gnd in that. Hopefully you can follow the same path to make it a little bit easier

Its winter - almost Christmas - do you have any idea how many newly licensed electricians are out there wishing they had a few extra bucks to buy Christmas for their kids ???

Run some thing on CL - ask for licensed only to help you out and assist you in doing the work yourself and pay cash. With 2 new panels, mast with weatherhead, conduit run to subpanel and labor assistance your looking at less then $2000

That's a cheap price for a electrical system that will give you "Peace of Mind", room to grow, and add value to your home

Good Luck

 

[christopizza]

Looks like the DPO ran romex through the PVC conduit as well....

 

[xSoFx]

Thanks everyone, I'll see if I can find a proper electrician to help me out. A free farenheat 5000w heater is going to end up costing me alot of money