help me with my heating options

[hoffman912]

Hey guys,

I wanted to get some opinions on some garage heating units. I have narrowed down to 3, but I cannot make a decision. cant pipe in gas heat, and my garage only has 30 amp. So these are it! I dont want to do a torpedo unit so please dont recommend it instead.


Option 1: Kerosene unit

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...0-btu-convection-kerosene-heater?cm_vc=-10005

23.5K BTU
portable
99% efficient (indoor safe)
2 gal = 12 hours
Efficiently heats up to 1,000 sq. ft. (not sure how when its less BTU than the propane options.. but it heats 360* around it, rather than just outward in one direction)

Pros:
cheaper cost for the unit @ $129
No additional equipment needed - fill and fire right up
Portable (can move anywhere in the garage i would want to work
indoor safe so i wont kill myself
Cheaper to run - $4/gallon = $8 for a 12 hour run.
easier to have spare fuel on me
-can have a gas can full and refill if i run out,
-gas station with kerosene is open longer/later than store to fill up propane tanks
Can use in the house for emergency heat (though we have a generator to power the boiler so not a big deal)


Cons:
Storing out of the way is kind of a PITA
larger footprint
would only use kerosene for this, so would have to have a jerry can somewhere full of it (and whats the shelf life for kerosene if i have it laying around 8 mos of the year?)



Option 2 or 3: Mr. Heater 30,000 BTU Vent-Free Radiant Propane Heater OR Mr. Heater 30,000 BTU Blue Flame Liquid Propane Vent Free Wall Heater

first any one know the difference between the blue flame vs radiant? pros cons there? I cant identify the difference or pros or cons between the two...

a) Radiant
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...vent-free-radiant-propane-heater?cm_vc=-10005

b)Blue flame

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...id-propane-vent-free-wall-heater?cm_vc=-10005

both have the same specs
more expensive $200
30,000 BTU
Heats up to 750 sq. ft
Thermostat for automatic temperature control
Automatic low oxygen shut-off system (ODS)
20 lb tank of propane = 14 hours

both have pros
can mount to a wall (ie, no storage concerns, but takes up wall space)
or can sit on feet (somewhat portable - but skinnier and easier to store)
20lb bottle of propane can be used for the grill in summer (ie no worries about extra cans of fuel sitting around - will get used year round!)
Propane doesnt go bad as quickly as kerosene (actually never heard of propane going bad) - again shouldnt be a problem considering we have a propane grill

Both have same cons
not portable if wall mounted
More expensive for the heater by about $70
would ALSO have to buy a 2 stage regulator ($40)
would Also have to buy the tank lines for it ($26)
propane is $3.19/gallon. Would be more expensive per unit. 5 gal = 20# tank full = aprx $16 per 14 hours.
going to the store to fill up propane tank = bigger PITA than filling up a jug of kerosene
could have extra (or larger tank of propane), but that takes up more space
stores that refill propane not open as long as




In Ohio it gets pretty cold. My garage is NOT insulated. I would probably work in the garage when its as cold as 20* out if i had heat in it, unless it was an emergency repair and i had no choice (shouldnt be in that position really since i work from home and we have 2 daily drivers)

my goals are to get it up to a reasonable comfortable working temp. 50s/60s.

I do have two separate rooms. a 2 car garage (specs in my signature) and a smaller side room that is more storage and wouldnt be used for working in during winter (at least right now)

of the two options. what would you do?

 

[Milton Shaw]

One problem with un-vented heaters is that they will burn any solvents/vapors in the air in the garage. For instance brake clean, carb clean etc. Some of those the fumes are deadly and damage done to lungs is a lifetime problem. If you are using them don't use solvents at all. Even paint fumes or sanding dust can be a problem, not just from fire hazard but from vapor hazard. Sometimes you are better off working cold than working deadly. Almost 30 years ago now I release some R12 in a room with a Kerosene heater and we had to evacuate the house.(This was before R 12 recovery was required). I was changing 4 or 5 compressors every day and releasing R12 all the time but that house with the heater made me start checking for them before doing any work. This is just for your safety and information.

 

[Jackfre]

The infra-red unit is the best. You burn at a higher temp down in the meniscus of the plaque, therefore you burn everything, including CO. To add to Milton's correct information, whatever is airborne in a Vent Free heated area will go through that burner and it will come to smelling worse than when it went in. You might look at a Rinnai 824.

 

[Skiff Builder]

Hoffman,
I have all 3 type heaters you've shown-used in different places. Only in use when spaces are occupied. In your case I'd choose the infrared. If you can get it line of sight to where you do most of your work, you will feel the heat on yourself right away as it heats objects first.
Is it possible to get propane co to set an upright tank on side of garage?
I use the blue flame ng unit in a decently insulated 1000' shop. It heats it up pretty well.

Jackfre,
On the Rinnai unit. looks like it's pilot free and quite a bit more expensive. Do you use one? Just wondering how much better it might be than the one Hoffman shows.
Thanks
skiffbuilder

 

[hoffman912]

Thanks Skiff. It's pretty much going to be a day by day project by project use. For example I need to R&R my engine and gear box, reseal the gear box, fix a few engine items, and back in. I plan on just using it project by project rather than planning on being out there every day of the winter. Primarily weekends as needed kind of thing, using just the 20# bbq tank (or two)

Top of my budget would be the two propane units.


I do plan on insulating eventually - im just not there yet and want to get these projects done before spring.

How does the kerosene unit do? Or would you not even consider it?

 

[p_mori7]

I would invest a few hundred bucks in insulation first.

Then a propane direct vent unit (easy to install) with an exterior tank (100lb minimum,100 gallons better; with home delivery for refill).

 

[hoffman912]

Yes.. but these are things that are not going to happen until another year or two.

 

[Skiff Builder]

Thanks Skiff. It's pretty much going to be a day by day project by project use. For example I need to R&R my engine and gear box, reseal the gear box, fix a few engine items, and back in. I plan on just using it project by project rather than planning on being out there every day of the winter. Primarily weekends as needed kind of thing, using just the 20# bbq tank (or two)

Top of my budget would be the two propane units.


I do plan on insulating eventually - im just not there yet and want to get these projects done before spring.

How does the kerosene unit do? Or would you not even consider it?

LAst time I used the kero was re building a gutted house, pre insulation. It did not do well in that scenario.

 

[Showkey]

KERO stinks ( smells) no getting around it. Had that exact heater 40 years ago in garage it even had the catalyst screen option.

Sorry but if it’s just temporary occasional heat a propane torpedo beats all those other choices hands down...........but............Not a fan of any unvented heater in shop where is actual work happening on regular basis for the same reason others have already mentioned.

If limited to your three choices......blue Flame with the fan kit gets the vote, with caution.

 

[theoldwizard1]

A lot has to do with how much you are going to use it. If it is for a few hours any of them will work. Unvented heater not only emit CO but also a lot of moisture. Neither should matter if you are using it for a limited amount of time in an uninsulated garage.

I use a Mr. Heater tank that mounts on a 20 lb BBQ tank in my uninsulated garage. It works fine, except when it gets down into the teens. I bought a second one because I have 2 tanks.

That should heat up at least 1/2 of the garage enough to work even when it is down in the single digits. I have not had to use it yet this year as I have been able to wait out the coldest days.

 

[MrSurly]

"Garage has only 30amps". Is that 240volt/30A?
If so, there are several 5000w 240 heaters out there (I just put in two of them) that would. Cheap to buy and you could run one to get the room u.p to temp (17000 btu, pulling 20A @240V) and shut it off to use your compressor or whatever then turn it back on. Possibly cheaper, certainly way more convenient and also much safer.


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[hoffman912]

"Garage has only 30amps". Is that 240volt/30A?
If so, there are several 5000w 240 heaters out there (I just put in two of them) that would. Cheap to buy and you could run one to get the room u.p to temp (17000 btu, pulling 20A @240V) and shut it off to use your compressor or whatever then turn it back on. Possibly cheaper, certainly way more convenient and also much safer.


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Nope. plain old wiring in a 100 year old garage with 120 volt. OK, let me rephrase that - the wiring isnt 100 years old, only the building is. Maybe 30 or 40 years old. it's not dangerous, it's just not enough power and i am frustrated.

Anyways, I need to upgrade my home from 100 to 200 and dig a trench and upgrade the detached garage to 100. Thats also why i havent insulated yet (figuring its probably better to wire first).

The last 5 years have been spent repairing structural damage, replacing the roof, tearing out and pouring a new pad. Next is electric (in the next 2 years) followed shortly after by insulation. to upgrade the garage, as mentioned, requires an upgrade of the house. anyways, it requires money to do so. Having had back surgery last year sucked my electric funds back to 0 so its going to be a few more years until i can do it.

back to the topic at hand:

what i am looking for is a temporary solution to allow me to pull my engine and gear box so i can fix a few things before summer (hopefully before spring) in relative comfort. I need to replace some leaking seals on the gear box and i need to do some engine stuff while its out.

I am not going to be playing with tons of chemicals, maybe the occasional can of carb cleaner, but I am not going to get crazy. I am also not going to be in there every evening or anything. Just a 3-4 weekends to do my projects (probably not all in a row). I will worry about a permanent solution that allows me to work in there all the time after the garage is fully powered.

 

[Rewind97]

A lot has to do with how much you are going to use it. If it is for a few hours any of them will work. Unvented heater not only emit CO but also a lot of moisture. Neither should matter if you are using it for a limited amount of time in an uninsulated garage.

I use a Mr. Heater tank that mounts on a 20 lb BBQ tank in my uninsulated garage. It works fine, except when it gets down into the teens. I bought a second one because I have 2 tanks.

That should heat up at least 1/2 of the garage enough to work even when it is down in the single digits. I have not had to use it yet this year as I have been able to wait out the coldest days.

I have a 1200sq ft. (30' x 40' with 11' side walls) insulated shop and use one of these (double) and and a single head unit and they keep it acceptable in the shop, not toasty warm but enough that I can work when it's in the 20's to 30's. I would like to get another dual head unit as my single is old and well used.