Help me with this equasion

[Jimi]

I need to get power to my new garage. I am about 400 feet away from the closest transformer. The power company needs a conduit buried from point to point. At least half the run is in my neighbor's yard. Not very nice. But I have also not called yet to request a quote.

My house is also about 400 feet away. I'll need to trench a wire between them for TV and phone anyway. Should I consider trying to feed from my house instead? I have 400A service. (Forgive my ignorance.) I have 4 slots available on one panel, and 5 on the other. Would a 50A panel in a new garage be stupid when I can run 100? I have no real expertise in this field to choose.

What would you do in this situation?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

How large is the garage? what kind of equipment do you have? and how much current does it draw? (air compressor, welder, etc) and what do you reasonably expect to have in the future?

Anything under about 90 amps is probably not a good idea unless it is simply a storage garage and you only need lights and a vacuum.

What amperage service does your house have? and since you have two panels, what size (amp) are these?

Basically, we need a lot more info (and probably a pic of a panel or two) to assess the situation.

Charles

 

[Jimi]

Attached are the two panels.

My garage will be 30x50. I have no idea what I'll be using over time in there. Mainly at this point only several 220 items and a few 110s. It's the future and unknown stuff that haunts me. So I'm leaning towards doing it the right way first.

But if it's much cheaper to go the other route right now, I can survive on 50A the next year or two. I don't have any big items needing powered yet. Would it be a big waste of valuable cash to do a temp. line like that?

 

[Aceman]

I need to get power to my new garage. I am about 400 feet away from the closest transformer. The power company needs a conduit buried from point to point. At least half the run is in my neighbor's yard. Not very nice. But I have also not called yet to request a quote.

My house is also about 400 feet away. I'll need to trench a wire between them for TV and phone anyway. Should I consider trying to feed from my house instead? I have 400A service. (Forgive my ignorance.) I have 4 slots available on one panel, and 5 on the other. Would a 50A panel in a new garage be stupid when I can run 100? I have no real expertise in this field to choose.

What would you do in this situation?

Did you verify it's legal to cross property lines with your conduit?

I've been told in Oregon that it's not allowed. Here the power company would have to set another transformer or pole next to your property.

 

[pattenp]

You will need an easement/right-of-way to cross neighbors property. I personally wouldn't try going that route. Looks like you have the space in your panel to add a 100A breaker. With a 100A breaker you could run #2/0 copper to your shop. IMO that would be enough power for a typical DIY'er. Now if you going to have HVAC, then that's a different thing.

4/0 aluminum is needed for the same 100A at 400'.

 

[madosta]

Do you have two parcels or something? We need a pic.

 

[larry_g]

Attached are the two panels.

My garage will be 30x50. I have no idea what I'll be using over time in there. Mainly at this point only several 220 items and a few 110s. It's the future and unknown stuff that haunts me. So I'm leaning towards doing it the right way first.

But if it's much cheaper to go the other route right now, I can survive on 50A the next year or two. I don't have any big items needing powered yet. Would it be a big waste of valuable cash to do a temp. line like that?

If you know your going to have "several" 220v items you must have some idea what they are? Without some better idea of the power requirements you will be using any answer you get here is perty much a wild *** guess. Its a whole lot of difference between several pottery kilns and some machine tools or woodworking tools.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Zeke]

From the house is what I'd do because it doesn't involve the poco or the neighbor. If it's a one man shop, you can only use so many power tools at once. Obviously heating and A/C are to be treated separately.

My whole house and garage are on 100A service. I get things done including welding. But, I don't have A/C anywhere and don't use electric heat.

 

[Jimi]

I do plan to use electric heat and a/c. I'll also have a wood fired boiler outside to heat the floor.

The 220s will be compressor, welder, lift... things like that. A one man shop/garage.

My lot is square. There is a pic of my building site in this thread here on post #22.

I spoke to the power company yesterday asking them to come do a site survey and give me some numbers. Once I have that, I'm sure I can throw that into the mix and make a way better decision on which will work.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Conduit ?

Never heard of a POCO requiring a conduit !

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I do plan to use electric heat and a/c. I'll also have a wood fired boiler outside to heat the floor.

The 220s will be compressor, welder, lift... things like that. A one man shop/garage.

My lot is square. There is a pic of my building site in this thread here on post #22.

I spoke to the power company yesterday asking them to come do a site survey and give me some numbers. Once I have that, I'm sure I can throw that into the mix and make a way better decision on which will work.

100 amps might not be enough if you will be running a welder, a/c or electric heat, and air compressor all @ the same time depending on how much they draw. Do u happen to know the load ratings of all these machines?

Looking @ your plot map, the only feasible cable route i see is under the driveway which would be a whole lot longer than 400'. Looks to be more like 560'! Thats gonna cost some serious dough in cable. I would definitely see if you can get another service maybe overhead from the PoCo!

 

[Jimi]

Do u happen to know the load ratings of all these machines?

No. I'll be buying those later. The things I have now will be replaced.

My excavator told me about the conduit. He said they're not direct burying the power anymore. At least not in my county. It is a pain, and more expensive, but that seems to be the trend anymore. It sounds like I should plan on 200 just to be safe.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

No. I'll be buying those later. The things I have now will be replaced.

My excavator told me about the conduit. He said they're not direct burying the power anymore. At least not in my county. It is a pain, and more expensive, but that seems to be the trend anymore. It sounds like I should plan on 200 just to be safe.

For 200a @ 400' or 600', u will need some serious wire! If you would like, i can calculate the wire gauge needed when i get home(dont have my uglys book in front of me!) I'm sure another sparky on here like pattenp could also do it for u too!

 

[6768rogues]

If I were the neighbor, I would probably say no and would expect some money to change that to a yes. Burying a conduit on my property would render that part of my property unavailable for use for a building, well, septic, etc. and I would always have to work around your conduit if I wanted to erect anything, even a flagpole or fence. That has a value associated with it.

 

[Jimi]

For 200a @ 400' or 600', u will need some serious wire! If you would like, i can calculate the wire gauge needed when i get home(dont have my uglys book in front of me!) I'm sure another sparky on here like pattenp could also do it for u too!

Please. That would be quite helpful. Is this something along the lines of thousands of dollars? Or you're meaning just a thick *** gauge?

If I were the neighbor, I would probably say no

Utility easements are along each property line. I don't think they'd have any say in it. Of course that doesn't mean I couldn't help with a bag of grass seed or a lending hand or two getting things back in line. I have not met that neighbor yet anyway. What better to introduce myself than by ripping a hole through their peaceful sanctuary to **** some juice.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Please. That would be quite helpful. Is this something along the lines of thousands of dollars? Or you're meaning just a thick *** gauge?

Yes, i mean big *** gauge wire AND expensive!

For 100a:

@400'- 3/0 CU or 250kcmils AL
@570'(your map dimensions + a little extra)- 4/0 CU or 350kcmils AL

For 200a:

@400'- 300kcmils CU or 500kcmils AL
@570'- 500kcmils CU or 700kcmils AL

Now i don't have price sheets in front of me but I know the gauges for 100a aren't cheap considering #2al MHF is just under $3/foot and u need many gauges larger than that!

And keep in mind u need 3 wires @ those lengths so times the distance by 3 plus u need a smaller gauger wire for the egc/ground wire! Im guessing your in for at least $5k just in wire! U also need conduit unless using direct burial, panels, breakers, ditch witch AND not to mention labor! Good luck to your wallet!

 

[ishiboo]

So, if there is already a utility easement this is probably along a road... that's completely different than going through the guys yard. If the power company will not run high voltage underground and put a transformer next to your shop, I'd do whichever is cheaper/easier to do. Either way, it's going to take some big wire unless they run you high voltage.

 

[Jimi]

Thanks for the work wyliesdiesels. I know it's going to be high priced either way now. (Higher than I had hoped.) I hoped for about $2K at the most for a panel inside. I may have to wait a few months or more to power it.

ishiboo, the utility easements run around each lot here. Specifically, 10' along the front, and 8' on the sides and back. I hope they can get something figured out that can save me some money.

I had a guy out from the power company today. (Of course he came while I was gone. No call.) He left me a message and said he may be able to place a new transformer for me. I can only assume on my dime. I plan to talk to him directly tomorrow and get some numbers. Looks like this may be my best route. I'll let you all know what he says.

Thank you again.

 

[ddawg16]

I'm still trying to figure out what an "equasion" is...............

 

[Jimi]

I'm still trying to figure out what an "equasion" is...............

A: Something an idiot puts in place of an actual word. Rarely often confused with equation.

 

[rburke65]

Let's be nice here guys.

 

[rlmartinson]

I am pretty sure you, as a property owner, can NOT use a PUE on somebody else's property. That is for utilties that are approved by the city. The same goes for the ROW along a road.
You would also be responsible for locating the conductors whenever somebody digs in the vicinity, or all conductor repairs are done by you.

Your neighbor could give you an easement on top of an existing PUE.

If the power company can set a single phase transformer close for a decent price, go for that!

"ishiboo, the utility easements run around each lot here. Specifically, 10' along the front, and 8' on the sides and back. I hope they can get something figured out that can save me some money."

Good luck,
Ryan

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Let's be nice here guys.

The OP was capping on himself so dont worry!

 

[Bill T]

I had a similar problem. I had the power company install a meter on my shop.The utility looked at my needs and determined that the best option was to install a dedicated pad mounted transformer for my house and shop. In my area, the utility will supply the first 150' of wire from the transformer. After that, the customer has to pay (per foot). I installed a 200amp service on my shop. If the transformer is mounted on a pole, the trip down the pole is deducted from the 150' allowed. The only downsides are: 1) you have to pay a minimum bill on the shop of $35/month (I use more than that) and 2) you have to fool with paying two utility bills. Benefits are plenty of juice when I need it and the lights in the house do not dim when I use power in the shop.

 

[Jimi]

I've finally been contacted back from the power company. Kind of good news surprisingly. He said he'd need to place a transformer up near my garage, but I'll need to run a 3" conduit 38" underground from the one in my yard. Crazy enough, he said that he sees no charges from them to do so. We're talking about 650'-700' of wire running along my new driveway. Not trying to be dumb here, but I'm shocked. I will however of course need to pay for whatever cable I use between the transformer and the meter. That conduit needs to be 28" underground. So placement will be crucial. A mix between cost and visibility.

Since I'll be going this route versus the home fed option, I'd like to thank the folks who gave their opinions and effort. I'll still update some pricing once I get it. I may have to delete my outside pad to compensate the cash. But at least I'll have power in my new shop.