HELP - Need advise on stick framed workshop

[dmh_sr]

This post was something I asked fellow HAMB members about and they recommended I come here to seek advise. Thanks in advance for your help.

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I need design advise for a new workshop. I am considering selling my house and workshop and moving to another area. I curently have a 30’ x 40’ insulated metal building that is just right for my needs. I’d love to build another one just like it, but the subdivision I’m looking at moving to doesn’t allow metal buildings or metal roofs.

I need to build a workshop with brick veener and composite shingle roof. I’d like to build another 30’ x 40’, but to do that without interior posts, I need to use roof trusses. Roof trusses seem like a lot of extra cost (about $4000).

I spoke with a lumber yard salesman / former framer and he said I could save money by building a 26’ x 48’. The thought is I could use two 26’ LamBeams set 16’ apart, across the 26’ span (once you go past 26’ LamBeams get very expensive). I could then use 2” x 12” joints between them and have attic space with the 12 & 12 pitch for a lot cheaper that trusses.

Does this sound like a good plan? After having a 30’ deep work area, it may take some organizing / planning to get used to 26’ depth. Another question, is trying to avoid posts really that important? Is having attic space very valuable for car stuff? If you were building an approximately 1200 square foot stick framed shop, how would you design it?

Thanks,
Dan

 

[rodnok1]

I can't imagine trusses being more expensive, esp when 30+ feet in length. But you want 12/12 pitch...maybe so. Attic space is OK for car stuff, but I usually only put light weight **** upstairs, it gets old/hard to man handle parts up and down, I'd rather have more floor space than attic for car parts. I would avoid posts at all costs unless you can put them into an interior wall. Check the costs for lower angle trusses, they come way down in prices. I think my 40' were 1600 maybe less(4/12 pitch).
As for design hard about what you have now and likes/dislikes. Consider placement at new site when considering doors/size. I would check for more details on what is allowed size wise and door openings allowed(size included).

 

[brownbagg]

I got a 30 x40 house with trusses, place them a 2 ft. mine was $1200

 

[NOMAD]

Attic space sounds fine but again, the weight issue crops up. Even better might be raising the ceiling height to 12 or more feet to give your space more room to have floor to ceiling shelving, some attic storage, and you can put in a lift later on.
Why do you need 12/12 pitch in Texas? I'd think a shallower one would work fine unless you have lots of snow.

 

[Lloydthumper]

I just bought mine a few weeks ago at 84 Lumber and I paid $1500 for 19 main trusses and 2 gable end trusses for my 30X40X12 that puts them 24"oc. I can't imagine them being $4K If that was the case I would not have built a garage at all.

 

[dmh_sr]

I may have the cost wrong. Seems like the salesman said about $200 per truss for 12 & 12 pitch (made with 2 x 6's) with an opening for attic storage.

The house has a 12 & 12 pitch, so I was trying to match that. And since the roof would be so high I was trying to take advantage of it for storage.

I know I have to do at least 8 & 12 pitch roof (even though we have little to no snow here in Texas ) to meet sub-division restrictions . Maybe if I did 8 & 12 with no attic opening it would be more resonable.

Thanks for the responses, I'll call around to check pricing on trusses.

 

[Willy Victor]

Will your sub-division allow you a 30x40?

Willy

 

[NOMAD]

Prefab trusses made with 2x4s don't allow much storage but could be cheap enough to help you build a larger sized garage, high ceiling etc.

 

[Vicious_Cycle]

Does this sound like a good plan?

Moving into a subdivision with a bunch of busybodies telling you what kind of ROOF to have?!??! HELL NO, it doesn't sound like a good plan!!

My 30x48 has Gambrel trusses with 16' wide attic/living space down through the middle and clear span down below. 25 trusses @ $180 each = $4500. That was 2-3 years ago, so your price quote is probably right.

To answer your other question, I don't see why you couldn't do what the lumber rep suggested, but when you start with your truss cost and subract out the cost of the lams and the 16-footers and the rest of the roof structure lumber, you probably aren't saving a great deal considering the amount of additional labor you'll have to put in.
Don't forget when you are comparing the costs, that you are also losing 4 feet of width.

 

[chaingang]

My trusses have a 25 wide clear span with an 8/12 pitch and a room upstairs that's 17ft plus wide with a 9 ft ceiling. It is classed as a livible space and built to code for weight requirements. They are 2x6's except for the bottom chords which are 2x10's. Needed 15 plus 2 gables and my cost was only around $2500. That was this year and in GA so I don't know how price would compare.
Check out my build to see the truss pics.

 

[dmh_sr]

Yes I can build a 30'x40' and that's the current plan. I called and priced 30' roof trusses for a 8/12 pitch (which is the lowest I can do in that subdivision) and got rid of the attic storage (that allowed for trusses made from 2x4's rather than 2x6's) and got a price of about $1900 with tax.

Thanks to all for the help.

 

[StingRay]

If you are putting up 8/12 or higher pitch I think you'd be nuts not to get them with a storage space in them. Non storage trusses aren't rated for any load on the bottom chord beyond sheetrock and insulation. when I bought my place it had a 28 x 44 building with something like a 8/12 pitch. Bottom chord to top of truss is like 9 feet and it looks like a heluva space when you are standing up there. I managed to engineer a way to add a bit of storage up there but my building is split to 24 x 28 and 20 x 28. I span the 20 ft end with I-joists above the bottom chord and perpendicular to. I've got 24 x 8 of storage up there and it was worth every penny it took to do it. I probably have a third of the storage you'd have if you went with the storage or attic room trusses and if I was to build a building from the start I wouldn't hesitate to spend the extra on the trusses. I can't imagine being able to stick frame with rafter and joists for less than trusses.

 

[Vicious_Cycle]

You're giving up a TON of valuable usable space to save a few bucks.

 

[dmh_sr]

StingRay / Vicious_Cycle - You guys seem to have strong feelings about the attic storage.

My thought was, sure I could have a space in the attic about 10 or 12 ft wide and 40 ft long, but what am I going to be able to put up there?

No engines, transmissions or rear ends. If I put cylinder heads, crankshafts, diff pumkins and other parts up there, I'd be worried the combined weight would be too much. And I'd need to take up valuable floor space with a staircase (not gonna do the ladder thing if I have a real attic).

I think I'd rather take the extra it would cost to buy attic trusses & stairs and use it to build a 30' x 50' shop without the attic.

It would only cost me the price of the middle extra 10' of shop (cheaper). Five more common trusses, some extra OSB sheathing, a little more concrete, yada, yada, yada.

It seems like the 30x50 would be better than 30x40 with attic. You guys are shop smart, what do you think?

 

[StingRay]

Well now 30 x 50 is bigger than 30 x 40 and that may be a good option. As a long time car guy I have learned that no matter how big the building is there is always more **** than there is a place to put it. I can easily get light sheet metal like bumpers and front fenders up my attic ladder and alot of other light easy to handle stuff that is really in the way downstairs. I already have all kinds of **** up there even though I haven't given it all of the finishing touches.
Over the years I can't count the times I have had a project vehicle and couldn't find enough safe space to store an interior. Door panels and headliners take up valuable space and can't necessarily be stacked. Grilles and trim are awkward and easy to damage too. Often these delicate parts will deform when leaned up against other things. In the work zone they are subject to welding and autobody hazzards. Up stairs I can spread them out, lay them flat and keep them realatively clean and safe. In my younger days I once had an entire bedroom full with one car interior. It was before I was married. I'd never get away with it now! I also put seldom used tools and supplies up there to keep valuable ground space at a maximum. Right now more sq footage seems reasonable but later you will regret not putting storage up there. Somethig to consider is that it's cheaper to build up than out. More sq footage means more concrete, more roof, etc. Personally I'd build it bigger and still put attic trusses up there. Even if you don't finish up there now you always can later. I can tell you first hand that after the fact trying to put any real storage up there is a significant challenge. Don't get me wrong I'm not rich by any standard and $ are a limitation for me. I borrow now to not regret later. Everything I'm adding to my building I'm doing once and doing as right as I know how.

 

[Vicious_Cycle]

dmh_sr
Obviously it's your choice; not mine.

But in the process of building a garage, there are hundreds of forks in the road where you make a decision on how you will proceed. This means there are hundreds of opportunities to later regret the decision you made.

I believe the dilemma you face right now is one of those deals where you are most certainly destined to regret your decision, if you go the "save a few bucks" route now.

Let's face it: with a high pitched roof you are creating ALOT of space above your garage. The question really is whether or not to make it usable space. I'm saying the cost to make that space usable is MINIMAL, when weighed against the cost of the project as a whole.

 

[dmh_sr]

I checked the difference between 8/12 with attic space vs. without attic space and you guys are right. The cost is not that much, about $600 extra for the trusses and whatever for the plywood.

I still will be limited somewhat on what I store up there because of the Texas summer heat. Plastic, vynal, rubber and other materials can get trashed after spending some time in the attic.

Still, for probably less than $1000 total, I could have extra footage for lightweight, heat resistant stuff.

What are the opinions on pull down attic stairs? I know they're not as good as regular stairs, but they don't take up any floor space.

And, I could put it in front of a workbench (parallel to the bench) so the space would always be open for use.

 

[Gummi Bear]

How high of a gable height are you planning on?

Pull down stairs are pretty well maxed out at 9' or so ceilings.

What are your height restrictions for the building? No taller than the house? (*what I've seen in several instances)

 

[Vicious_Cycle]

Now we're talkin'!

I'd rather see pull down stairs than none at all, but I much prefer permanent stairs, which is what I went with.

You might be able to get creative with the space that permanent stairs would 'cost' you. In my shop, for instance, I put the whole radiant hydronic heat set-up underneath the low end of the steps, and my workbench (as yet not installed) will reside underneath the higher part of the steps. The compressor sits in front of the wall-mounted radiant heat set-up, and will eventually be boxed-in to quiet the compressor noise. By building it this way, in my mind I really haven't lost much floor space due to the permanent stairs.

And there are other options as well, i.e. shelves, cupboards, or perhaps certain pieces of portable equipment that will be taking up floor space somewhere anyway.

You will use the storage space more frequently if you build a good set of stairs.

 

[chaingang]

Put the steps outside at the back. Yes I know the stairs will be out in the elements, but it does not sound like you will be using your space much anyway. I did not want to lose floor space inside either and with a 12 ft ceiling the stairs would be about 20 ft long built to code. I think you can get extended length and heavy duty pull down stairs. As for mine I will eventually finish it for storage and my train set. With an open ridge vent, galvalume(very reflective) metal roof and soffit vents my space does not get as hot as one would think. So far with the windows open it has not gotten much over ambient. Georgia summers can be brutle also.

 

[thefairlaneman]

When I built my garage I underestimated the number of trusses I needed and built 2 from 2/4s and was surprised how easy it was using one I bought as a model. I would consider it and compare the cost first. If it takes a couple of days to make them yourself and you save several hundred bucks it might be a good idea if you.have time. In fact the ones I made looked better than the bought ones. My garage is 21feet wide and 35 feet deep. Perfect for parking 2 cars and room left to work at the back.

 

[dmh_sr]

Gummi - I should be OK as the house is 12/12 pitch so the roof is quite high.

VC - I'd rather have real stairs than a pull down also. I'm gonna lay it out on the computer and see how I can make it fit & minimize impact.

Chain - Thanks for the info about extended length and heavy duty pull down stairs. Did you do outside stairs and if so are they steel or wood?

Fairlane - Not a bad idea to make my own trusses if I had the time, but it would take me forever at the rate some of my projects move.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Vicious_Cycle]

VC - I'd rather have real stairs than a pull down also. I'm gonna lay it out on the computer and see how I can make it fit & minimize impact.

Mine go across the back of the shop. I couldn't stand the thought of losing any width, so it was my first and only choice. Good luck.

 

[chaingang]

Gummi - I should be OK as the house is 12/12 pitch so the roof is quite high.


Chain - Thanks for the info about extended length and heavy duty pull down stairs. Did you do outside stairs and if so are they steel or wood?


Thanks again for the help.

dmh_sr
Not finished yet but will be pressure treated wood with one side attached to the back wall then a couple of posts and a small landing at the top. I left my back overhang at 20 inches to hopefully have a little dry area if I need to go up stairs on a rainy day.