Help Needed - Sloping Driveway to Attached Garage - Flooding

[Mantetvh1]

Hi all - first - I apologize for the long post. For those who are patient enough to read - thank you. My wife, two small daughters and I have a split level, raised ranch with an attached garage on the lower, left front of the home. The driveway leading down is sloped with rock and dirt retaining walls on each side. At the base of the driveway is a circular drain that resembles a manhole cover. That drain is about 4 feet deep with a 6-8 inch diameter PVC pipe a little more than halfway down that leads to somewhere (not sure where). In the 3 years we’ve owned this home, that drain has overflowed 3-4 times and flooded our garage with anywhere between 1-3 inches of water. The PO had a 6’’ wide piece of plywood that ran the length of the door inside the garage that leads into my lower level. That always held back the water from entering our home. Until 8/8 when a storm rolled in and dropped 7 inches of water on us in a 2 hr span. Whole lower level flooded including our carpeted , finished basement. We needed a restoration company to come in and tear everything up and dry it. Then just 10 days later it happened again. Another freak rainstorm. Except this time that plywood (along with the bottom 2 ft of drywall the entire garage wall) was gone and there was NOTHING to hold back the water. The whole lower level was flooded again - except this time there was about 7 inches of water in the lower level. Needless to say I need water drainage help.

I was proposed two ideas - 1) fill in the driveway, level it, grade the yard, wall up the garage, and pave a level driveway over it. Then build a bulkhead entrance onto the side of the house. Cost? $34k

Option 2: Trench drain the base of the driveway (behind the existing drain, then install sump pumps), a 2nd trench drain about halfway down the driveway and then possibly a berm at the top of the drive way to keep the running water on the street and not running down my driveway. The contractor also Insisted I install French drains throughout my entire lower level. Cost? $30k

I feel like a 3rd option should be JUST to do the driveway drains/pumps. I’m not sure I need French drains all inside my lower level. Water ONLY comes in through the garage. I asked the contractor and he said he’d do the outside drainage for $24k and the inside for only $6. Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks. Also we are in MA.

 

[wssix99]

I would hire a plumber to come with a camera and confirm how you are hooked up. I expect that your drain is hooked up to the sewer and you are getting backflow in addition to water coming down your driveway.

If you have a backflow problem, you'll need a backflow preventer. The catch is that in a backflow situation, you'll definitely need a sump and a sump pump to deal with the water (send it into the yard) until your storm sewer can handle the load.

 

[nadogail]

Welcome to the Forum from Southwestern California.

I agree that you need a Drain Inspection and very probably a pump.

 

[Mantetvh1]

I would hire a plumber to come with a camera and confirm how you are hooked up. I expect that your drain is hooked up to the sewer and you are getting backflow in addition to water coming down your driveway.

If you have a backflow problem, you'll need a backflow preventer. The catch is that in a backflow situation, you'll definitely need a sump and a sump pump to deal with the water (send it into the yard) until your storm sewer can handle the load.

Thanks for the reply! The pvc pipe in my drain is leading to the left of my house (if you are looking at the house). The water connection is in the front. So it MAY be draining into a sewer but I get the feeling it’s leading to some kind of dry well. But it was also suggested to me by some one else to have it looked at with a camera to find out where it leads to. So maybe I need to set that up.

 

[Mantetvh1]

Welcome to the Forum from Southwestern California.

I agree that you need a Drain Inspection and very probably a pump.

Thanks!

 

[Jeff Ivers]

Sometimes, when looking at pictures, the perspective is misleading. Is the road and the entire front yard higher than the location of the drain grate? Is the back yard lower than the drain grate? I think you need to confirm where the water that goes into the drain grate is diverted to and determine the flow capacity or holding capacity of that assembly. The increased frequency of "freak" storms is likely to overwhelm the capacity of things put in years ago. I would not enter into a contract with anyone without determining that you have an excess capacity (with the proposed solution) to what you need to handle the worst storm you can envision. If the rain is coming down fast enough, can it overwhelm the street and flow into your driveway?

 

[mikedodge]

We have a similar setup house wise where the garage is part of the basement. We used to get flooding into the garage in the spring from run off when the snow melted but the rest of the year was usually fine. We added a trench drain across the front of the door and that solved it.

 

[Hank11]

The first option, well done, would be the most secure and permanent. If you use a pump, power loss would create a disaster again. That happens in big storms.

But as mentioned above, figuring out where the water is supposed to go with your current set up and why its not, is the place to start.

 

[Youngandfree]

I was in a rental for a few months with a similar layout and grade. Near the garage was a single 4" pvc drain with cage style debris cover. It rained hard a couple times and would come into the garage. My buddy across the street would look after the house for the homeowner before we started renting, and he said he'd have to go try and keep water out during storms. One day I started looking for drain openings and found it on the side of the garage in the slope. 20 minutes with a shovel and I opened up the drain exit that had been closed off for years. Next big rain storm and it all drained like intended. This house had a speed bump just in front of the garage door to try and keep runoff put as well.

 

[Mantetvh1]

Sometimes, when looking at pictures, the perspective is misleading. Is the road and the entire front yard higher than the location of the drain grate? Is the back yard lower than the drain grate? I think you need to confirm where the water that goes into the drain grate is diverted to and determine the flow capacity or holding capacity of that assembly. The increased frequency of "freak" storms is likely to overwhelm the capacity of things put in years ago. I would not enter into a contract with anyone without determining that you have an excess capacity (with the proposed solution) to what you need to handle the worst storm you can envision. If the rain is coming down fast enough, can it overwhelm the street and flow into your driveway?

Road is higher than the garage. The driveway slopes down from the road to the garage. Both sides of the front yard slopes into the driveway too - more so on the left side. Backyard is higher than the drain grate.

 

[Mantetvh1]

The first option, well done, would be the most secure and permanent. If you use a pump, power loss would create a disaster again. That happens in big storms.

But as mentioned above, figuring out where the water is supposed to go with your current set up and why it’s not, is the place to start.

Good stuff. Thanks! My fear is it IS traveling where it’s supposed to go but either that dry well is old/not working or it’s simply not big enough.

 

[Mantetvh1]

Also none of this was covered under our homeowners insurance so my wife and I were trying to keep the solution under $20k. That said - we also don’t want a repeat. So is the only solution is more than that we will have to get creative with our finances.

 

[Tbender78]

If you go the sump pump route, look into a back up pump that is also hooked to a 12 volt battery. That way if you loose power you still have a way to pump out.

 

[Mantetvh1]

If you go the sump pump route, look into a back up pump that is also hooked to a 12 volt battery. That way if you loose power you still have a way to pump out.

I was told there would be multiple pumps in my scenario and that if one was failing or about to - it would alert us. He didn’t say how but that’s a question I asked - what happens when we lose power. I really like the idea of one being connected to a 12 volt.

 

[jives]

What is not discussed is the utility of the garage. Do you really use it a lot for car parking? If parking a single car outside is not a big deal, I would wall and backfill (still may need a French drain), and then mod the space either as a cool workshop or additional living space. You could add a garage on top of the fill. Yes, above your $20k limit.

or. . .
Dig out the sloping driveway and add a basement foundation, and put a garage on top of the foundation.

 

[P0234]

I agree with everyone saying figure out where the drain goes to and see if there is blockage. If it's a fat pipe that goes to a storm sewer, I'd just upgrade the drain and dump to the same spot. Any sort of pumps would be a last option.

 

[bakmopar]

At my previous house my driveway/garage was very similar except the driveway was steeper and longer. The township repaved the road in front of my house, making it higher than my driveway and sloped into my driveway. Any above average rainfall I had issues with water going into my garage. I asked the townships to add an asphalt "bump" across the top of my driveway and part of my yard. This greatly reduced the issue.

 

[Mantetvh1]

What is not discussed is the utility of the garage. Do you really use it a lot for car parking? If parking a single car outside is not a big deal, I would wall and backfill (still may need a French drain), and then mod the space either as a cool workshop or additional living space. You could add a garage on top of the fill. Yes, above your $20k limit.

or. . .
Dig out the sloping driveway and add a basement foundation, and put a garage on top of the foundation.

While both nice ideas - both are just out of budget and I still have to repair all the drywall and flooring damage. But you bring up a good point. I DO NOT use the garage for parking. It’s generally for storage of tools, lawn equipment and my snowblower/leaf blowers. I also use it as an entryway for working from home (my office is right inside). Backfilling would not be an issue from the perspective of losing parking. It’s purely a cost thing. Also my realtor did mention it would drop the property value by about $23k. Of course flood also impacts the value I understand

 

[bakmopar]

Could you post a pic from the street that shows your garage door view straight on and what the yard to the left of your house looks like?

I have sump pumps inside my current house. An emergency battery backup pump is highly recommended. One of the best $300 to $600 you can spend.

 

[billconner]

Just to be sure, the garage floor is lower than anyplace on your property? Thus no drain to daylight options, correct? I'm not clear where you pump to that it doesn't return.

If you said I apologize but guessing there is a municipal sewer system. Separate sanitary and storm? The elevation and efficacy of that is key.

It does seem some sort of bump or berm is necessary to redirect surface water.

 

[Mantetvh1]

Could you post a pic from the street that shows your garage door view straight on and what the yard to the left of your house looks like?

I have sump pumps inside my current house. An emergency battery backup pump is highly recommended. One of the best $300 to $600 you can spend.

 

[P0234]

Another thing I would do is call the PO and demand an explanation and a history. That history is going to be valuable so you don't repeat it. Could be that system was put there by the builder, if so great, it probably just needs to be cleaned up/tuned up. Or if it was added later due to things changing, that's something else. Like they say, unless you understand history, you are doomed to repeat it.

 

[cgrutt]

Sorry to hear this my MIL has very similar house with very similar problem except hers comes in from rear and flows out to driveway that is sloped away from house. In her case the entire neighborhood is in a low spot and water will literally flood over street, part of her front lawn and her neighbors front lawns so not much can be done about that. She has a trench in backnof house that diverts water away from house and leads out to drainage on front street, but when it backs up everything backs up and not much you can do.

Does your rear yard slope away from house? Maybe a trench in front of garage diverted off to side and back yard (if lower grade) will help and not be too expensive? Or run it into a tank below grade and have it pumped out to street as capacity clears up? Anyway good luck I hope you sort it out quickly and affordably.

 

[Mantetvh1]

Just to be sure, the garage floor is lower than anyplace on your property? Thus no drain to daylight options, correct? I'm not clear where you pump to that it doesn't return.

If you said I apologize but guessing there is a municipal sewer system. Separate sanitary and storm? The elevation and efficacy of that is key.

It does seem some sort of bump or berm is necessary to redirect surface water.

Yes we were thinking a berm along the top of the driveway. And yes - the garage/lower level of the house is the lowest point. I think we need to control the flow of the water. The circular manhole type storm drain is not doing that.

 

[Mantetvh1]

Sorry to hear this my MIL has very similar house with very similar problem except hers comes in from rear and flows out to driveway that is sloped away from house. In her case the entire neighborhood is in a low spot and water will literally flood over street, part of her front lawn and her neighbors front lawns so not much can be done about that. She has a trench in backnof house that diverts water away from house and leads out to drainage on front street, but when it backs up everything backs up and not much you can do.

Does your rear yard slope away from house? Maybe a trench in front of garage diverted off to side and back yard (if lower grade) will help and not be too expensive? Or run it into a tank below grade and have it pumped out to street as capacity clears up? Anyway good luck I hope you sort it out quickly and affordably.

Sorry to hear about your MIL home. My moms is similar. They have a culvert in their backyard that is owned and maintained by the town. That over flowed the same day I flooded and they flooded too. As for my house - the backyard is level and is higher than the garage. So I’d be pumping up hill if I wanted to send the water there.

 

[cgrutt]

Sorry to hear about your MIL home. My moms is similar. They have a culvert in their backyard that is owned and maintained by the town. That over flowed the same day I flooded and they flooded too. As for my house - the backyard is level and is higher than the garage. So I’d be pumping up hill if I wanted to send the water there.

Got ya couldn't tell by pics. Good luck figuring it out.

 

[bakmopar]

Does anyone else on your street have a similar driveway/garage setup? Is anyone else on your street having similar issues?

 

[Crashlandy]

Another thing I would do is call the PO and demand an explanation and a history. That history is going to be valuable so you don't repeat it. Could be that system was put there by the builder, if so great, it probably just needs to be cleaned up/tuned up. Or if it was added later due to things changing, that's something else. Like they say, unless you understand history, you are doomed to repeat it.

Unless you owe the PO money, you probably should ask nicely.

 

[jives]

As much as filling in the slope would be my first choice, you should do nothing until you find out why the current system is not working. Okay, a 7" deluge may overwhelm anything, but did this happen in the past? Was there any hint of prior flooding when you bought the house?

I'm guessing a lot of water is coming from the yard, both run-off and seepage through the stone walls. Yards on both sides of the photo are all draining to the driveway. Perhaps your neighbor's as well. The downspout location looks like it would exacerbate the problem. Normally, removing the soil behind the wall, installing a perforated drain, and backfilling with gravel would be a solution. But you have no place for the water to run when in the drain. I would consider digging behind the stone walls, placing gravel and waterproof fabric against the wall, and building up the soil to run water back into the yard or toward the street. Make a berm just outside the garage door with asphalt cold patch. Figure out a better way to pump from the existing hole or create a grated drain system at the bottom of the driveway. Either way, figure out how to pump the water from the drain to the street, without it coming back into the driveway.

 

[Old Moparz]

Hi all - first - I apologize for the long post. For those who are patient enough to read - thank you. My wife, two small daughters and I have a split level, raised ranch with an attached garage on the lower, left front of the home. The driveway leading down is sloped with rock and dirt retaining walls on each side. At the base of the driveway is a circular drain that resembles a manhole cover. That drain is about 4 feet deep with a 6-8 inch diameter PVC pipe a little more than halfway down that leads to somewhere (not sure where). In the 3 years we’ve owned this home, that drain has overflowed 3-4 times and flooded our garage with anywhere between 1-3 inches of water. The PO had a 6’’ wide piece of plywood that ran the length of the door inside the garage that leads into my lower level. That always held back the water from entering our home. Until 8/8 when a storm rolled in and dropped 7 inches of water on us in a 2 hr span. Whole lower level flooded including our carpeted , finished basement. We needed a restoration company to come in and tear everything up and dry it. Then just 10 days later it happened again. Another freak rainstorm. Except this time that plywood (along with the bottom 2 ft of drywall the entire garage wall) was gone and there was NOTHING to hold back the water. The whole lower level was flooded again - except this time there was about 7 inches of water in the lower level. Needless to say I need water drainage help.

I was proposed two ideas - 1) fill in the driveway, level it, grade the yard, wall up the garage, and pave a level driveway over it. Then build a bulkhead entrance onto the side of the house. Cost? $34k

Option 2: Trench drain the base of the driveway (behind the existing drain, then install sump pumps), a 2nd trench drain about halfway down the driveway and then possibly a berm at the top of the drive way to keep the running water on the street and not running down my driveway. The contractor also Insisted I install French drains throughout my entire lower level. Cost? $30k

I feel like a 3rd option should be JUST to do the driveway drains/pumps. I’m not sure I need French drains all inside my lower level. Water ONLY comes in through the garage. I asked the contractor and he said he’d do the outside drainage for $24k and the inside for only $6. Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks. Also we are in MA.

Like a few others have said, try to locate where the pipe goes. If the pipe does go to a drywell, either the pipe or the drywell could be damaged or clogged. This may be the less expensive option that you could do yourself. Tree roots are a huge culprit & I see larger, old trees on your property.

The drywell, depending on the age, could be a rusted metal tank that has collapsed & needs to be replaced. Some people used to put holes in 55 gallon drums or washing machine casings & bury them. Newer ones are concrete or even HDPE & it might simply be filled in with silt.

You definitely need to divert the water no matter what the results are regarding the drain, the pipe, drywell, etc. My gravel driveway would get washed down into my yard every time we had heavy rains. The only way it finally stopped was when my town highway department did some drainage improvements by installing a trench drain & a paved berm at the top of my hill.

 

[billconner]

Consider a "roto rooter" job on the drain pipe, or some other means to determine if blocked, and as others have said, where it goes. It really seems like figuring out what you've got is first task.

Tough situation with no place to put storm water. My condolences. It may be pumping to storm sewer - IF the storms sewer works and doesn't contribute to the problem - is only good option. Battery or generator back up of course.

Have you tried to speak with municipality to verify storm sewer?

 

[Mantetvh1]

Does anyone else on your street have a similar driveway/garage setup? Is anyone else on your street having similar issues?

Funny but I did locate someone much farther up the street with a similar driveway. I noticed they only had a trench drain that ran the width of their driveway - at the base - just in front to the garage door. I felt it would be weird to go knocking on their door but at this point I’m desperate lol.

 

[Mantetvh1]

Like a few others have said, try to locate where the pipe goes. If the pipe does go to a drywell, either the pipe or the drywell could be damaged or clogged. This may be the less expensive option that you could do yourself. Tree roots are a huge culprit & I see larger, old trees on your property.

The drywell, depending on the age, could be a rusted metal tank that has collapsed & needs to be replaced. Some people used to put holes in 55 gallon drums or washing machine casings & bury them. Newer ones are concrete or even HDPE & it might simply be filled in with silt.

You definitely need to divert the water no matter what the results are regarding the drain, the pipe, drywell, etc. My gravel driveway would get washed down into my yard every time we had heavy rains. The only way it finally stopped was when my town highway department did some drainage improvements by installing a trench drain & a paved berm at the top of my hill.

Assuming you had to cover the cost of that berm? I don’t foresee the town paying for that. And apparently one of my neighbors did mention that the previous owner had flooding before. I still like the idea of checking into the existing system however, something tells me I need more. And one key thing that everybody here has essentially agreed on is that I need to find a way to Control the flow of the water coming down. One idea was a trench drain about halfway down the driveway that spans the entire width with the runoff going onto the street. Then another trench drain installed at the base of the driveway between the existing drain and the garage door. Although it sounds like a lot of folks here like the idea of a berm at the base of the garage in front of the door between the garage door and the existing drain.

 

[Mantetvh1]

Consider a "roto rooter" job on the drain pipe, or some other means to determine if blocked, and as others have said, where it goes. It really seems like figuring out what you've got is first task.

Tough situation with no place to put storm water. My condolences. It may be pumping to storm sewer - IF the storms sewer works and doesn't contribute to the problem - is only good option. Battery or generator back up of course.

Have you tried to speak with municipality to verify storm sewer?

I have not. I wanted to make sure everything was legal first lol

 

[P0234]

Assuming you had to cover the cost of that berm? I don’t foresee the town paying for that. And apparently one of my neighbors did mention that the previous owner had flooding before. I still like the idea of checking into the existing system however, something tells me I need more. And one key thing that everybody here has essentially agreed on is that I need to find a way to Control the flow of the water coming down. One idea was a trench drain about halfway down the driveway that spans the entire width with the runoff going onto the street. Then another trench drain installed at the base of the driveway between the existing drain and the garage door. Although it sounds like a lot of folks here like the idea of a berm at the base of the garage in front of the door between the garage door and the existing drain.

I know its easier to throw solutions at the problem, but you have to understand, at some point in time this system worked. You need to understand why it stopped working before you add more solutions.

 

[hilld]

Right now everything is speculation as far as what the issues and potential solutions are including potential costs.

The first step has been already suggested several times, it is trying to find out where the "drain" goes, what condition it is in, etc. Once you have those facts, then you can create a plan to address the other issues. Preventing the water running down your driveway to your house is also a good step as already suggested, anything you can do to move the water away from the house should be part of the plan.

While contacting the previous owner might seem like a good idea, disclosure laws and liability might prevent him/her from saying anything. They were supposed to disclose the issues when selling the house, not sure if they did, or if they did, not sure the extent of the problem.

So for now, I think you are on your own, talk to your realtor to see if they recommend a person for sewer / drain scoping and start there.

EDIT: Start this process now, the fall/rainy season will be here sooner than you think.

 

[Spud McGee]

From the pictures, it looks like the left side of the property is lower than the driveway. If that's the case, I'd dig a little trench right through that little hump to the left of the driveway.

 

[CarBikeGuy70]

As others have said you need to run a camera into the drain pipe. Check for termination as well as obstructions. Look into source of the water and do as much as possible to control it before it gets to your garage door. A berm at the road is number one item to address. If the town will not help you , find an asphalt contractor to do the work. A few hundred will do a lot - saw cut back from road, remove old material and build a good solid berm at least 3 inches higher than the road elevation 4 feet away from the curb line. The berm needs to be at least 3 feet in depth from the road towards your garage. Install a trench drain in the drive 2/3 of the way down your drive from the road. Do not tie this drain into the drain in front of your garage, this needs to have a different termination point. By doing the this work you are controlling the runoff before it gets to your house, and not trying to deal with it at your door. Pumps are only the last solution. A pump to control the amount of water you are dealing with is not your typical sump pump. I totally understand your situation as we just had a 3 1/2 inch rainfall in a little over an hour a few weeks ago. Water ran down the road down our drive (with some damage) and began to erode road as well as trying to run thru a fieldstone wall. Control water flow as well as keeping drains clear will make things much better.

 

[bakmopar]

What climate are you in? Do you have to deal with any/much ice or snow?

 

[Mantetvh1]

What climate are you in? Do you have to deal with any/much ice or snow?

Yes to both. In MA.