HELP needed with Compressor Setup

[Skep18]

Hey everyone. I'm new here. I stumbled on the site when realizing how in over my head I think I got in on this field, at least it wasn't as complicated as I initially expected. I don't side track much, but I am working on building a track car, and have gotten to the point to where I wanto to do my own paint (big surprise to you all, I'm sure, that this turns out to be complicated on many facets.)

Anyways, I have a Craftsman Professional 27 Gallon Oiled Compressor I got on Black Friday last year in 2012. I messed with the tank outlet setup a bit to accomodate what I thought to be my needs at the time. I proceeded to buy a in-line filter/regulator from Northern Tool. I can't find a link to the exact item I bought, but the photo below shows what it looks like:

Up until now, I've just been running from the compressor, through the filter/regulator, through a 50' hose to my tool. I've got some Ingersoll Rand tool oil for my tools, but for the most part, I've just gotten around to using a cutting wheel and dye grinder, both of which were cheap from Harbor Freight. I try to stay away from HF for some things, but these were so cheap, I figured, why not...

So, now for my questions. I know, when running the dye grinder excessively, I eventually have to let it sit for the compressor to catch back up. Its at this time I get a nice spray of water come out of the tool. Other times, it feels like the tool freezes up. I add oil, but I think its too late and doesn't help.

My goal is to get dry air. I've actually read and learned quite a bit on this site (thanks!) but unfortunately, as with many things, I have some specific questions to ask.

1) Is my current setup with the filter straight out of the tank stopping the oil from getting into my current hose?

It rarely builds up with moisture worth draining, most of which is just visible condensation. I now realize that's due to me not allowing sufficient time/pipe length/volume expansion/pressure reduction to allow the water to condense and allow the filter to actually catch the water like the filter is designed to do. BUT, is it likely catching the oil?

2) Is my hose at this point not deemed worthy for using with a paint gun?

I bought some disposable air filters to use just before the gun, but I understand maybe that will create some volume issues? (I'll ask more about that later) But, would the filter have caught enough oil to not "contaminate" my hose?

3) If the filter didn't do squat, can I clean out my hose?

Can I run water/soap mixture through it? Anything able to be done here?

4) Can I even use these disposable filters? Is it good, cheap insurance or just a hinderance that will ruin my paint job?

I've read both. I was thinking maybe if I put a regulator after the disposable filter, but before my gun, leaving a little extra pressure to accomodate it might help? But I could also see this as a place to allow pressure drop and thus create more moisture?

5) I think I'm planning on piping in a (very) little system, and maybe use the $30 Harbor Freight desiccant filter, but I suppose I'll add photos and links for that later. But do I need much pipe length before the desiccant filter for it to work? Can I just use something like 10' or 15' of pipe, then hit the desiccant filter, then an outlet?

Will that be sufficient pipe length to allow enough cooling for condensation? Do I need a lot of cooling for the desiccant filter to work?

6) Should I leave a in-line filter to seperate the oil before the copper piping? or before the desiccant filter? or after the desiccant filter?

_________________________________

I'm sorry, I have a lot of questions. Thanks for anyone who reads this and responds.

 

[Skep18]

Bump.

 

[46 knuck]

i lay out my air hose on the floor put a male fitting on end so i can pour laquer thinner into the hose about a cup full then take my blow gun blow it out youll see the garbage blow out other end dont forget to open the big door or entrance to bloww it outside,your air comp is to small you might get by if you run maybe 20 to 30 ft 1/2 black pipe.in my garage i ran 1/2 up the wall behin ac to the ceiling to a tee then gradual drop horizontal to my drop vertical about 8ft to a tee then my filter regulater quick connect make sure u put a 12inch leg off bottom of tee drain shutoff fitting i never get water ihope u get it figured out nothing worse then water and paint

 

[pipsters]

Didn't bother to read everything but you need the filter to be near the end of the hose run. The air MUST cool and condense the moisture before the filter will ever work. Just oil your tools by placing a couple drops of oil in the inlet before you connect the hose before and after you use them that day. Don't use an inline oiler because they don't really work and it's not needed for one, and for two it will ruin your hose and make it unable to be used in a painting situation.

The disposable filters work great for an HVLP setup but not in normal every day use. Not needed.

 

[JustBob]

1) Is my current setup with the filter straight out of the tank stopping the oil from getting into my current hose?

No, that filter is a coelescing filter and will only seperate aerosols or liquid water and oil. Oil and water vapors will pass through that filter.

2) Is my hose at this point not deemed worthy for using with a paint gun?

Hoses are cheap, DRY air is not. I would purchase another hose for painting. Once you determine what type of painting setup you will use you can look up the cfm rating of the spray gun to determine what disposable filter to use.

3) If the filter didn't do squat, can I clean out my hose?

Yes, you could "wash" out the hose.

4) Can I even use these disposable filters? Is it good, cheap insurance or just a hinderance that will ruin my paint job?

I've read both. I was thinking maybe if I put a regulator after the disposable filter, but before my gun, leaving a little extra pressure to accomodate it might help? But I could also see this as a place to allow pressure drop and thus create more moisture?

You want the pressure drop... Absorbent filters, dessicant paper or other, are better used after the majority of the oil and water has been removed or they will become costly and time consuming to replce. Thing of them as a second stage to water/oil removal. You want to cool the air down to condense the water/oil vapors into an aerosol/liquid. A pressure drop cools the air, so cool the air, then coelescing filter, the absorbent/dessicant and fo good measure add a motorguard filter.

5) I think I'm planning on piping in a (very) little system, and maybe use the $30 Harbor Freight desiccant filter, but I suppose I'll add photos and links for that later. But do I need much pipe length before the desiccant filter for it to work? Can I just use something like 10' or 15' of pipe, then hit the desiccant filter, then an outlet?

Will that be sufficient pipe length to allow enough cooling for condensation? Do I need a lot of cooling for the desiccant filter to work?

Its not as much temperature as it is the volume of moisture it recieves, to much and it will not all be absorbed and some will pass through.

6) Should I leave a in-line filter to seperate the oil before the copper piping? or before the desiccant filter? or after the desiccant filter?

You could place a coelescing filter before the tubing, but you still would want one after the tubing.

Although my setup is not ideal, I have 20 feet of copper tubing.. regulator - coelescing filter - 10 feet of hose - large dessicant filter - first drop - motorguard 26 filter - drop for plasma.

I use the first drop for everything but the plasma, I use the drop after the motorguard for the plasma cutter since it like really dry air.

 

[Skep18]

i lay out my air hose on the floor put a male fitting on end so i can pour laquer thinner into the hose about a cup full then take my blow gun blow it out youll see the garbage blow out other end dont forget to open the big door or entrance to bloww it outside,your air comp is to small you might get by if you run maybe 20 to 30 ft 1/2 black pipe.in my garage i ran 1/2 up the wall behin ac to the ceiling to a tee then gradual drop horizontal to my drop vertical about 8ft to a tee then my filter regulater quick connect make sure u put a 12inch leg off bottom of tee drain shutoff fitting i never get water ihope u get it figured out nothing worse then water and paint

Didn't bother to read everything but you need the filter to be near the end of the hose run. The air MUST cool and condense the moisture before the filter will ever work. Just oil your tools by placing a couple drops of oil in the inlet before you connect the hose before and after you use them that day. Don't use an inline oiler because they don't really work and it's not needed for one, and for two it will ruin your hose and make it unable to be used in a painting situation.

The disposable filters work great for an HVLP setup but not in normal every day use. Not needed.

1) Is my current setup with the filter straight out of the tank stopping the oil from getting into my current hose?

No, that filter is a coelescing filter and will only seperate aerosols or liquid water and oil. Oil and water vapors will pass through that filter.

2) Is my hose at this point not deemed worthy for using with a paint gun?

Hoses are cheap, DRY air is not. I would purchase another hose for painting. Once you determine what type of painting setup you will use you can look up the cfm rating of the spray gun to determine what disposable filter to use.

3) If the filter didn't do squat, can I clean out my hose?

Yes, you could "wash" out the hose.

4) Can I even use these disposable filters? Is it good, cheap insurance or just a hinderance that will ruin my paint job?

I've read both. I was thinking maybe if I put a regulator after the disposable filter, but before my gun, leaving a little extra pressure to accomodate it might help? But I could also see this as a place to allow pressure drop and thus create more moisture?

You want the pressure drop... Absorbent filters, dessicant paper or other, are better used after the majority of the oil and water has been removed or they will become costly and time consuming to replce. Thing of them as a second stage to water/oil removal. You want to cool the air down to condense the water/oil vapors into an aerosol/liquid. A pressure drop cools the air, so cool the air, then coelescing filter, the absorbent/dessicant and fo good measure add a motorguard filter.

5) I think I'm planning on piping in a (very) little system, and maybe use the $30 Harbor Freight desiccant filter, but I suppose I'll add photos and links for that later. But do I need much pipe length before the desiccant filter for it to work? Can I just use something like 10' or 15' of pipe, then hit the desiccant filter, then an outlet?

Will that be sufficient pipe length to allow enough cooling for condensation? Do I need a lot of cooling for the desiccant filter to work?

Its not as much temperature as it is the volume of moisture it recieves, to much and it will not all be absorbed and some will pass through.

6) Should I leave a in-line filter to seperate the oil before the copper piping? or before the desiccant filter? or after the desiccant filter?

You could place a coelescing filter before the tubing, but you still would want one after the tubing.

Although my setup is not ideal, I have 20 feet of copper tubing.. regulator - coelescing filter - 10 feet of hose - large dessicant filter - first drop - motorguard 26 filter - drop for plasma.

I use the first drop for everything but the plasma, I use the drop after the motorguard for the plasma cutter since it like really dry air.

Thank you so much everyone for the input. I have decided to return my 27 gallon air compressor in exchange for a 60 gallon one. Only reason I didn't get 60 in the first place was due to me not having a 220V drop. However, since the 27 gallon was tripping my garage breaker on 110V, i went ahead and converted the motor to 220V and ran a dedicated circuit. Having done that, the 60 gallon wasn't much more expensive, so this should ease my mind for painting, DA sanders, and dye grinder use. Also about what pipster said, i have some peace of mind about having enough cfm, etc.

Thanks also JustBob for going through each question. Once I get the compressor in and installed, I'll try and draw up a schematic and see what you guys think. The whole placement of the filters just kinda confuses me. I understand the concept of pressure drop cooling, condensing and all, but I guess just some second opinions from experienced people will make me feel better.

Thanks again!