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Help Reading 12 Volt Wiring Schematic

apittmanii

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Dec 28, 2015
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Hello, I am using the module show in this wiring diagram. It’s basically a 12 volt relay that uses a sensor to shut off a fuel pump when the gasoline is empty.

I can’t get this to run properly. Can anyone tell me if the wires going to terminals 10 and 5 need to be grounded? I assumed the ground symbol was only applicable if I set up the optional status lights (“pump down has finished” and “no fuel”).

Thank you in advance
 

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grounded-b

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No, you should never connect terminals 5 & 10 to ground. They are +12VDC outputs which light up a lamp under certain conditions.

Grounding either of those terminals would result in a dead short. ( and might fry the circuit board)

Steve
 
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apittmanii

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Thank you Steve, that’s good to know. And likely the reason I think it’s not working. I probably fried it. I thought that completed the ground part of a status light, so I wired an LED... the positive of the LED was hooked to my battery circuit, and I ran the black / negative to terminal 5.

Terry, what it’s not doing is putting out power to the fuel pump. It’s like the internal relay is not switching over despite the fact I have it wired exactly like the diagram (with terminals 5 and 10 open). However I have reached out the designer / manufacturer and he is going to help me trouble shoot today. I think it’s fried.

For what it’s worth, here is how I have it wired with no output to the fuel pump:

1 - ground and blue wire of optical sensor.
2 - green wire of optical sensor
3 - empty
4 - empty
5 - empty
6 - 12 volt positive power from switch (6, 9, and 12 soldered together)
7 - positive power out to 12 volt 4 amp fuel pump
8 - empty
9 - 12 volt positive power from switch (6, 9, and 12 soldered together)
10 - empty
11 - red wire from optical sensor
12 - 12 volt positive power from switch (6, 9, and 12 soldered together).
 

510ebl

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I hate to ask the obvious, but is there enough fuel to cover the sensor?

Do you have voltage now between (5) and (1)?

How long are you waiting? "Sensor is debounced" means to me there may be a delay in switching state.

Are you using this in an aircraft, or some other application? What kind of fuel? Gasoline? On road diesel? Off road diesel? Is the sensor rated for fluids other than aviation fuel?
 

grounded-b

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If you have terminals 3 & 4 not connected to anything, it will function as a "pump down" device. The pump will only run when the sensor is covered by fuel.

Steve
 

dogdog

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Test the optical sensor seperately ?

It says 1( black, gnd) 2(sensor output Green 0-5V) and 11 ( Red +5V) and the sensor will output the 5V when tank is empty... or Lookup the datasheet and see if you have a linear graph of that. Put your hand in front of the sensor output should drop...keep in mind it says 5V. NOT 12V. and test 1 , 11 make sure you do have 5V. ?
 
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wyliesdiesels

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my WAG is you fried it when you shorted 5 and 10 to neg/ground. Does 7 have 12v potential between it and neg when the sensor is covered with fuel?

does the board have a fuse anywhere else besides the fuel pump output?
 

Solarphil

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And likely the reason I think it’s not working. I probably fried it. I thought that completed the ground part of a status light, so I wired an LED... the positive of the LED was hooked to my battery circuit, and I ran the black / negative to terminal 5.

If I understand you right, you might not be in as bad a shape as you think. When you say you connected the positive of the LED to the battery circuit, do you mean you connected it to the *positive* lead from the battery? If so, then really 5 and 6 were sitting at the same potential. Not right, but not necessarily fatal.

I'd recommend troubleshooting in a logical sequence. First, jumper 6 to 7 and see if the pump runs. If it doesn't, then the problem isn't in the relay or controls.

Next, as dogdog states, you should have 5v at 11. If you jumper that to 2, does the pump run? There is some delay/hysteresis, what this sheet calls debounce. That means it might take a minute or so before the relay engages and the pump turns on. No worries, just take note of the amount of time. All subsequent tests have to hold that condition for at least that long.

Next, with the sensor connected do you see 5v at 2 when the sensor is submerged in fuel? Voltage should drop when pulled out of the fuel - might not go to zero, but it should certainly be less than 2v. Depends on the sensor.

Good luck, let us know what you find!
 
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apittmanii

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I hate to ask the obvious, but is there enough fuel to cover the sensor?

Do you have voltage now between (5) and (1)?

How long are you waiting? "Sensor is debounced" means to me there may be a delay in switching state.

Are you using this in an aircraft, or some other application? What kind of fuel? Gasoline? On road diesel? Off road diesel? Is the sensor rated for fluids other than aviation fuel?

With just common (1) hooked up and 6, 9, 12 hooked up to 12 bolts, yes I have voltage between 5 and 1 when on. When off I have no voltage.

Sensor rated for gasoline which is my application. Auxiliary fuel tank for my Toyota Tundra so it shuts off before over filling.
 
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apittmanii

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Grounded B, yes That is the mode I want to use. Pump down then stop when fuel is empty.
 
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grounded-b

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Sensor rated for gasoline which is my application. Auxiliary fuel tank for my Toyota Tundra so it shuts off before over filling.

This contradicts what you said in a previous post.

Other post, you said that you want the pump to run and empty until the tank level gets below the sensor. Now you say that you want the pump to run and fill until it hits the sensor.

I'm confused

Steve
 
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apittmanii

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Steve, This sensor is installed on an auxiliary fuel tank the fills my main fuel tank. When I hit a button in the cab, the auxiliary fuel tank discharges directly into my main fuel tank until it reaches the sensor (installed on the bottom of the aux fuel tank).

Edit: sorry, I think I’m not being clear; Dave captured it correctly below (9:25am)
 
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apittmanii

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Test the optical sensor seperately ?

It says 1( black, gnd) 2(sensor output Green 0-5V) and 11 ( Red +5V) and the sensor will output the 5V when tank is empty... or Lookup the datasheet and see if you have a linear graph of that. Put your hand in front of the sensor output should drop...keep in mind it says 5V. NOT 12V. and test 1 , 11 make sure you do have 5V. ?

Would do so but have fuel in the aux tank. Will test when I can run down the current level of gas. Luckily the pump and everything runs just fine without this relay/sensor.
 

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dave*99

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This sensor is installed on an auxiliary fuel tank the fills my main fuel tank. When I hit a button in the cab, the auxiliary fuel tank discharges directly into my main fuel tank until it reaches the sensor (installed on the bottom of the aux fuel tank).


I think you mean you want the pump to run until the sensor in the bottom of the aux tank no longer detects fuel.
Yes?
 
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apittmanii

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If I understand you right, you might not be in as bad a shape as you think. When you say you connected the positive of the LED to the battery circuit, do you mean you connected it to the *positive* lead from the battery? If so, then really 5 and 6 were sitting at the same potential. Not right, but not necessarily fatal.

——-That’s a good point. That’s exactly what I mean. Positive was hooked up to positive so I guess they were sitting at the same battery voltage. ——-


I'd recommend troubleshooting in a logical sequence. First, jumper 6 to 7 and see if the pump runs. If it doesn't, then the problem isn't in the relay or controls.

——Pump runs good without this module. When removed from the set up, it turns on and off with the switch perfectly and runs strong. ——

Next, as dogdog states, you should have 5v at 11. If you jumper that to 2, does the pump run? There is some delay/hysteresis, what this sheet calls debounce. That means it might take a minute or so before the relay engages and the pump turns on. No worries, just take note of the amount of time. All subsequent tests have to hold that condition for at least that long.

—I am getting 5 v at 11. When I jumper 11 to 2, I still get no power on 7. Held for several minutes.



Next, with the sensor connected do you see 5v at 2 when the sensor is submerged in fuel? Voltage should drop when pulled out of the fuel - might not go to zero, but it should certainly be less than 2v. Depends on the sensor.

Submerged in fuel with sensor hooked up = 3.75 volts.



Good luck, let us know what you find!

Thanks to everyone for their help.
 

510ebl

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With just common (1) hooked up and 6, 9, 12 hooked up to 12 bolts, yes I have voltage between 5 and 1 when on. When off I have no voltage.

Sensor rated for gasoline which is my application. Auxiliary fuel tank for my Toyota Tundra so it shuts off before over filling.

IMO, if you have fuel covering the sensor and 12V between 5 and 1, you have either a bad sensor or a non working device. The 5-6-7 relay is not changing state.

What happens if you disconnect the sensor and turn on the power switch?

Just for kicks, what are your readings from 1 to 7 and 1 to 8 and 1 to 10?
 

dogdog

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Thank you, yes. That’s what I want.

Then you should ask your manufacture guy on how to bypass the sensor... I am suspecting grounding it with a resistor pair or something.

Your first post the Note on the sensors says : "Sensor output is high when in air"

They must have design it that way for a reason like preventing pump damages or sucking debris from bottom of the tank?

and assuming your setup is method #1.... remove the jumper between #3 and #4 terminal.
 

Solarphil

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I should ask, when you jumped 11 to 2 did you still have the optical sensor in the loop? Try with that disconnected, and if still no joy then I’d say ask the manufacturer for a replacement.
 
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apittmanii

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Thanks everyone for your help. I know this was a while ago, but wanted to follow up that I indeed burned out the optical sensor and the relay. I sent it in for returns, got it back and bench tested before installing. If you’re interested, here is a video of the device. It’s too long, the last few minutes show it working.
 
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