Help requested to wire multiple lights w/source prior to switch

[chevroletfreak]

I have a wiring dilema that I am trying to figure out in my garage lighting project.

The circuit will be as follows:
Source - electrical outlet - light ballast - light ballast - light switch

I have 2 wire Romex on hand. Does this circuit require 3 wire? If so, I can remove the electrical outlet from the circuit.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have a wiring dilema that I am trying to figure out in my garage lighting project.

The circuit will be as follows:
Source - electrical outlet - light ballast - light ballast - light switch

I have 2 wire Romex on hand. Does this circuit require 3 wire? If so, I can remove the electrical outlet from the circuit.

I assume by 2 wire Romex u mean 2-wire plus ground!

Yes you will need 12-3 wire between the 2 fixtures unless u can run the 12-2 from the outlet to the ballast closest to the switch first. Then run a 12-2 between the fixtures and another between the second fixture and the switch. Tape the white wire in switch box black and connect both blacks to the switch creating whats called a switch loop. In the second fixture, the hot black from the source/outlet connects to one of the switch loop wires, the source neutral connects to the second ballast neural and the white neutral in the 12-2 going to the first fixture. Then connect the switched hot in the same manner as the neutral!

Removing the outlet would not negate needing 12-3 because the source is entering the fixture furthest from the switch!

 

[chevroletfreak]

Perfect post! Now I just gotta decipher it. LOL.

Yes, 12-2 plus copper is what I already have purchased.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Assuming you want the outlet hot at all times, and you are using 2 conductor Romex (w/ground), power has to go to the switch BEFORE it goes to the light and AFTER it comes from the outlet.

If the outlet is to be switched also, then wire it after the switch.

If your willing to use 3 conductor (w/ground) between the lights and the switch, then you have can have a different solution.

 

[chevroletfreak]

It looks like there will be a lot of back and forth (read wire waste) wiring in order to incorporate using only 12-2. If I understand 3 wire circuit, I would only need it between each fixture and not to the switch.

Source (2 wire) => OUTLET (not switched) (2 wire) => BALLAST 1 (3 wire) => BALLAST 2 (2 wire) SWITCH

I guess I will just man up and buy some 3 wire. Thanks!

 

[eljefino]

The only wire you'll waste is between the two lights.

An equals sign is 2 plus ground, eg normal romex. Black is unswitched, pink is switched. Pardon the non-standardness of my arbitrary colors.

SOURCE=====OUTLET======LIGHT1[COLOR="Magenta"]======[/COLOR]LIGHT2[COLOR="Magenta"]======[/COLOR]SWITCH
                        ==============

You're going to do some splicing inside the flourescent fixture raceway, but there's tons and tons of room for that. So yeah basically run a double run where you show 3 wire in your diagram.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It looks like there will be a lot of back and forth (read wire waste) wiring in order to incorporate using only 12-2. If I understand 3 wire circuit, I would only need it between each fixture and not to the switch.

Source (2 wire) => OUTLET (not switched) (2 wire) => BALLAST 1 (3 wire) => BALLAST 2 (2 wire) SWITCH

I guess I will just man up and buy some 3 wire. Thanks!

That would be correct!

The only wire you'll waste is between the two lights.

An equals sign is 2 plus ground, eg normal romex. Black is unswitched, pink is switched. Pardon the non-standardness of my arbitrary colors.

SOURCE=====OUTLET======LIGHT1[COLOR="Magenta"]======[/COLOR]LIGHT2[COLOR="Magenta"]======[/COLOR]SWITCH
                        ==============

You're going to do some splicing inside the flourescent fixture raceway, but there's tons and tons of room for that. So yeah basically run a double run where you show 3 wire in your diagram.

Yes, if you wire it this way, one wire will be unused and wasted! I think the OP doesnt want to waste wire....but maybe the OP doesnt care about wasting wire! OP, the basic idea in wiring this setup is that there needs to be 2 hots(one switched, one constant hot) and a neutral between the 2 fixtures equaling 3 wires/conductors. In the above drawing, there's 4 wires/conductors between the fixtures....

 

[MrMark]

I assume by 2 wire Romex u mean 2-wire plus ground!

[snip] u can run the 12-2 from the outlet to the ballast closest to the switch first. Then run a 12-2 between the fixtures and another between the second fixture and the switch. Tape the white wire in switch box black and connect both blacks to the switch creating whats called a switch loop. In the second fixture, the hot black from the source/outlet connects to one of the switch loop wires, the source neutral connects to the second ballast neural and the white neutral in the 12-2 going to the first fixture. Then connect the switched hot in the same manner as the neutral!

Removing the outlet would not negate needing 12-3 because the source is entering the fixture furthest from the switch!

I think you mean the "ballast closest to the switch" or the first fixture here. Actually, in reading it further I'm not sure what you mean. Here's what I would do:

Run the 12/2 from the outlet to a fixture (let's call it 1). Run a 12/2 from fixture 1 to the switch. Connect white pigtail of ballast to neutral from outlet. Create your switch loop now by connecting the line+ from the outlet to the black wire coming from the switch. Tape the white wire coming back from the switch BLACK. Connect BLACK pigtail of ballast to white taped BLACK from switch. At the switch, connect black and white to the switch (tape the white BlACK). Stop and congratulate yourself because you now have a properly switched fixture 1.

Connect fixture 2 to fixture 1 as normal with 12/2.

I don't see the wasted wire, it actually saves wire and that is pretty much the point of back feeding, although it is not to latest code which requires a neutral in the switchbox for nonsafety reasons. I don't like back feeding for aesthetic reasons but it is pretty common especially on cheap wiring (read not thought out) and retrofit.

 

[MrMark]

Assuming you want the outlet hot at all times, and you are using 2 conductor Romex (w/ground), power has to go to the switch BEFORE it goes to the light and AFTER it comes from the outlet.

If the outlet is to be switched also, then wire it after the switch.

If your willing to use 3 conductor (w/ground) between the lights and the switch, then you have can have a different solution.

Not really. See above. This is a common back fed switch loop.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I think you mean the "ballast closest to the switch" or the first fixture here. Actually, in reading it further I'm not sure what you mean. Here's what I would do:

Run the 12/2 from the outlet to a fixture (let's call it 1). Run a 12/2 from fixture 1 to the switch. Connect white pigtail of ballast to neutral from outlet. Create your switch loop now by connecting the line+ from the outlet to the black wire coming from the switch. Tape the white wire coming back from the switch BLACK. Connect BLACK pigtail of ballast to white taped BLACK from switch. At the switch, connect black and white to the switch (tape the white BlACK). Stop and congratulate yourself because you now have a properly switched fixture 1.

Connect fixture 2 to fixture 1 as normal with 12/2.

I don't see the wasted wire, it actually saves wire and that is pretty much the point of back feeding, although it is not to latest code which requires a neutral in the switchbox for nonsafety reasons. I don't like back feeding for aesthetic reasons but it is pretty common especially on cheap wiring (read not thought out) and retrofit.

Yes, i said second fixture, meaning fixture closest to switch, following the order of devices in the OPs post.

You basically said the SAME thing i did, but u used a different fixture to tie the switch loop into!

 

[eljefino]

That would be correct!



Yes, if you wire it this way, one wire will be unused and wasted! I think the OP doesnt want to waste wire....but maybe the OP doesnt care about wasting wire! OP, the basic idea in wiring this setup is that there needs to be 2 hots(one switched, one constant hot) and a neutral between the 2 fixtures equaling 3 wires/conductors. In the above drawing, there's 4 wires/conductors between the fixtures....

Right. If he's buying 25 feet of 12/3 he's going to pay a lot more and be inconvenienced compared to if he just has a coil of 250 feet of 12/2.

Also if the wire is visible it might be considered unsightly... though naked romex laid parallel and stapled with care is an art form to me.

Though I understand the engineering mentality of there being an unused, spare conductor in there doing nothing, and how that might drive someone crazy.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Right. If he's buying 25 feet of 12/3 he's going to pay a lot more and be inconvenienced compared to if he just has a coil of 250 feet of 12/2.

Also if the wire is visible it might be considered unsightly... though naked romex laid parallel and stapled with care is an art form to me.

Though I understand the engineering mentality of there being an unused, spare conductor in there doing nothing, and how that might drive someone crazy.

Many hardware stores like OSH(CA store) sell 12-2 and 12-3 Romex by the foot so u dont have to buy a whole box of wire that u may only need half of!

 

[chevroletfreak]

I did go and purchase the 12/3, wired it all up w/ the 3-wire between the ballasts....good to go.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[chevroletfreak]

Though I understand the engineering mentality of there being an unused, spare conductor in there doing nothing, and how that might drive someone crazy.

Not how I wired it, but why would you want the unused white in the switch box?

 

[MrMark]

I did go and purchase the 12/3, wired it all up w/ the 3-wire between the ballasts....good to go.

Thanks for all the help!

You should have just used the 12/2. It's done the way I posted all day long.

 

[walleye catcher]

Dont use the light fixture raceways for joints not allowed by the NEC... if in doubt get an electrician.

 

[chevroletfreak]

I installed ceiling boxes so there are no connections in the raceways. Just flipped all the lights on. It looks amazing in comparison to the previous 60 watt open bulbs. Here is a pic. Sorry the garage is dis-organized. I had to move a lot around to get the lights up.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Not how I wired it, but why would you want the unused white in the switch box?

Current NEC code requires a neutral conductor in switch boxes because devices like timers and light controllers need a neutral to function!

Dont use the light fixture raceways for joints not allowed by the NEC... if in doubt get an electrician.

Really? Happen to have a code cite? FYI It's done all the time. I just changed a bunch of ballasts at a local Guitar Center that had splices done IN the fixture. 12/3 BX was run between banks of fixtures to allow multiswitching of sets of fixtures thus allowing there to be half or all of the fixtures on at once! The traveling hot conductor in each fixture was wirenutted/spliced to the travelling conductor going to the next fixture.

I installed ceiling boxes so there are no connections in the raceways. Just flipped all the lights on. It looks amazing in comparison to the previous 60 watt open bulbs. Here is a pic. Sorry the garage is dis-organized. I had to move a lot around to get the lights up.

Good job! Looks great!

 

[chevroletfreak]

Good job! Looks great!

Thanks. I'm happy....for now