Help selecting a table saw

[hemiallen]

I have always used an old Craftsman steel tablesaw dad bought back in the mid 70's when we build his house, and with my own shop coming in a few months I can't wait to get a mid priced table saw , initially to cut plywood, up to 2x8's for the building and later to start making cabinets, shadow boxes, picture frames and other hobby type use. Making a moving workbench that could support full plywood sheets is an option, and I could probably make an adapter to mount the router, I am not opposed to making such an addition if suggested.

I don't think it needs to be a big industrial unit, more hobby rated, but I want your suggestions on what to start looking for. I'll have a 25' x 50' bay for working in, so lots of room. Is a table saw, or a radial arm saw with extensions better for my above use?

I will also be looking for a table to mount a 3/4 hp old sears router, and maybe there is a combo table/ extension for mounting this also?

I haven't done much woodworking besides using a 7 1/4" old saw to cut plywood and fir boards, usually on a couple of 2x4's to space the boards off the cement floor. Hoping to step up to cutting wood standing up, lol.

Please aim me in what direction to look for, HP size, etc. A combo table saw/ router would be nice, if one exists.

I should say I'm usually the guy that chooses purchases by price, but am trying to start choosing equipment more for lasting long enough to actually hand it down, vs when it's done toss it in the junk pile.

I have been absorbing posts here for the last month or so, great group and idea's that I am incorporating on my new shop.I'll start a thread once we get plans approved and start groundbreaking. I is 50' x 90', 20' walls and a 28' peak height. Shop- farming equipment, hotrod storage.

Thank you

Allen

 

[Kaizen]

Your price point will guide advice.
I got a hybrid saw from woodtek 15 years ago. Still perfect. It’s a ten inch blade, cast iron table, and a cabinet. About 1100 now I think. Runs on 110. Not sure size of motor. Plenty for going through anything I’ve asked it to eat


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[WWheeler]

[...] A combo table saw/ router would be nice, if one exists.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-3-HP-240V-Cabinet-Left-Tilting-Table-Saw/G1023RLW
http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-5-HP-240V-Cabinet-Left-Tilting-Table-Saw/G1023RLWX



Anywho, I just linked those because I had seen them recently in the showroom. I've been shopping lately for a new saw and have basically settled on the Grizzly G0690, which is a better all around saw than either of those I linked above, and I plan to build a router table wing on it.

 

[Showkey]

Radial arms are obsolete with power compound sliding miter saws totally taken over that market.
Radial arms are also terrible for ripping.......
Even a non sliding compound saw does what a radial arm use to do......faster cheaper safer and portable.


The answer is a table saw with large extensions on the sides and run off table for support. Done right 4-8 panels can be handled by one man.
The extension on the side can be the router table.
The saw needs a decent fence.........usually aftermarket. That depending on the price point of the saw to start with.

The saw choice itself based on your budget........but a $3000 saw does not make a cabinet maker.......that old craftsmen saw in the right hands can do the job.......maybe slower with more set up time but shops are full of expensive tools that never get used.

 

[ghnl]

A mid-grade table saw plus a high quality blade and rip fence will likely meet your needs. If you have the room, build some large outfeed tables - that makes handling sheets of plywood a lot easier.

A radial arm saw is tricky to set up, can easily be bumped out of alignment and is scary for ripping.

 

[Kaizen]

The norm now is break down sheet goods before putting on the table saw. I rough cut it on the bed of my truck and then rip on tablesaw to final square


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[hemiallen]

Thanks for the suggestions. I might see if dad will let me borrow his, last time it was used was by me, and I will have a larger area to use it and he could come over and use it at my place. The fence on it is pretty terrible, but I can align it in a few minutes time, and time is free, lol.

But I do want to upgrade to a 240V unit like the Grizzleys, they look pretty nice, but they are more than I was hoping to spend. And the one has the router extension.

Yes, the support bench would be a good idea, I also need to make it a layout bench. It looks like getting the shell up will keep me busy for a winter or 2 laying out the space once I move stuff from my wife's garage to my new playground.

Thank you for the suggestions

Allen

 

[quattro_sinko]

Owning and using mid-priced 10" portable table saws in the field, and having a 10" Unisaw in the shop, here is my advice:

Keep an eye on CL and buy a used Unisaw. They can be found regularly (in my area) for between $500-$750. The ones priced over $1k generally sit on there. The ones priced $500-$750 rarely last a day or two, if not a few hours.


The Unisaw is that much better. As far as the router table, looks like you will have room to have a separate unit.

 

[ddawg16]

I have an old Ryobi table saw that also has a router attachment.

I've used the dog **** out of it. I also have the outfeed table (fold down) and it makes a great work surface.

As noted above....a good compound sliding miter will out perform a radial arm saw.

Good blades make the world of difference. I don't blink spending $50+ for a good blade.

If $$ is an issue....keep an eye on Craig's List. Some of the old stuff is really solid. Getting something from an estate sale can save the day.

Otherwise....
Delta...or Grissley

Unless you have a LOT of space, don't get hung up on a large table top. Rollers and an extra hand will help with ripping 4x8 sheets. Quite often I rough-cut 4x8 sheets to a manageable size before I take them to the table saw.

 

[Roberts210]

Good, used Unisaws are still readily available, and don't lose their value.

edit: I just sent you a PM. Check your inbox.

 

[ez-duzit]

Watch for a clean, well cared for Unisaw or Powermatic 66. Avoid machines that have not been well cared for or that have seen heavy use.

 

[6PTsocket]

I have been watching for a clean 66 for some time. $1400 to 1700 seems to be what a clean one is listed for on CL. I recently saw one listed as "well used" for $1000. I always thought I wanted a 52" table but as was just mentioned, sheet goods can be broken down elsewhere and a smaller table might be enough. I would not pass on a well priced PM2000, either. They just came out with a PM2000B.

Watch for a clean, well cared for Unisaw or Powermatic 66. Avoid machines that have not been well cared for or that have seen heavy use.

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[gnpenning]

If your just wanting to cut plywood of the ground, get a couple saw horses and a track saw. Now that you want to start making projects with wood I'm in the Unisaw or Powermatic crowd with a quality fence. Unisaws can be found on CL very reasonable here. With the space that you have you can add an outfeed table with storage of your choice underneither. You can even make a wider side table either permanent or portable. I would go with portable. You can either buy or make a router table in the wing or have it as a stand alone unit. Depending on what you are doing you can do both with your space.

Beware of horse power ratings of new equipment versus old. They are not rated the same. Also keep a eye out on the ease of buying accessories. If you don't make your own insert plates, can you easily buy them and how expensive are they. Can you buy a upgraded fence that will bolt right up or will you have to customize it. Unisaws and Powermatic will not cause you any problems. Not positive on Powermatic, but Unisaws can be bought with a left or right tilting arbor, I'm pretty sure the Powermatic can be as well, if that matters to you.

As you set up your shop try and keep all your table heights the same. That way if you make a portable side table you could use it for a extension on a chopsaw or planer if needed. Even your router table if separate from the saw could be used that way. The height you pick should be a good working height for you. I went with 36".

 

[R_einan]

Owning and using mid-priced 10" portable table saws in the field, and having a 10" Unisaw in the shop, here is my advice:

Keep an eye on CL and buy a used Unisaw. They can be found regularly (in my area) for between $500-$750. The ones priced over $1k generally sit on there. The ones priced $500-$750 rarely last a day or two, if not a few hours.


The Unisaw is that much better. As far as the router table, looks like you will have room to have a separate unit.

Absolutely, this ^!!! I had an 8” makita jobsite unit for years, pretty much learned on it. Crappy fence, small table, lightweight to the point of being unstable, low power... I wanted an upgrade to a 10” hybrid thinking of the best of both worlds, figuring on spending $800-1000, until I found a ‘93 3hp right tilt Unisaw on CL w/ 52” unifence and folding outfeed. For $500, I couldn’t pass it up even though it was way more saw than I needed or thought I wanted. Now I couldn’t see not having it. I’ve used hybrid saws, dad and father in law both have 10” Craftsman saws (different models) and they are better than the makita, but can’t touch Unisaw as far as ease of use or versatility. Unless portability is necessary, my vote goes towards a used cabinet saw.

 

[quattro_sinko]

Absolutely, this ^!!! I had an 8” makita jobsite unit for years, pretty much learned on it. Crappy fence, small table, lightweight to the point of being unstable, low power... I wanted an upgrade to a 10” hybrid thinking of the best of both worlds, figuring on spending $800-1000, until I found a ‘93 3hp right tilt Unisaw on CL w/ 52” unifence and folding outfeed. For $500, I couldn’t pass it up

I was going to purchase a hollow chisel mortiser off CL, and the people selling it offered me a nearly showroom condition Platinum Unisaw with the 52" Biesmeyer fence and a ton of accessories for a reasonable price. We settled on $650. Hard to say no in situations like that.

 

[bullnerd]

50' x 90', 20' !!! Dang! thats a hangar!

I use a 50s craftsman and have made a bunch of firniture over 25yrs with it. The trick is the fence, like you mentioned. I bought a Beismeyer from Sears back in the olden days.

Id go Uni saw or powermatic if I was buying now. I like left tilt saws, not easy to find unis used left tilt, so id go powermatic and be done.

 

[hemiallen]

Thanks again for the additional information. The delta Unisaw has a 3 and 5 horse motor, I suspect the 3 is big enough for my use.

I see Delta has a "new and improved" statement, are the older ones better quality? I'll start looking for used, their new price is pretty steep for me, and agree used can save a bundle, at times.

Yes, a hanger. It will house a work bay ( 20 x 14 doors) and 2 more 20x14's for an RV, Boat, Kabota vineyard tractor, 5 muscle cars, and a work room also. Tall enough for a second story. I wanted a Barn style to match the old 1930's barn we need to take down vs remodeling it, the second story in it is 18' x 24' and will be re-assembled in the new shop. floors are 12" wide x 2 1/2" thick lumber, support ceiling joists are 12" x 3" wood, and the siding is 10" x 2" wall boards. Bottom of floor has X braces, very cool looking design. My great Grandpa and his brothers built it, hate to loose it but we are in a flood plane, it has problems with past water seepage, asa the neighbors vineyard was leveled putting it in the low, downslope zone. And the county was becoming a pain on remodel restrictions so we changed plans midstream.

Due to all the vehicles, there isn't much free floorspace, even if we get a 2 wide lift, so the tall height allows storage and possibly floorspace and a hang-out area.

Allen

 

[Firebrick43]

I have a 3hp unisaw and would recommend it as well. I was about ready to pull the trigger on a 1023 grizzly but a friend that has a cabinet shop and has both saws recommended waiting on a unisaw. I paid 1500 but it was nearly new, had a mobile base, folding out feed table, and an overarm guard so I don't feel to bad about the deal. It's a phenomenal saw.

I have a tracksaw (dewalt) as well and recommend it or making a homemade guide and knocking down plywood before it goes on the table saw

I may be wrong but I believe all the 5hp unisaws were 3phase. Mine was originally but the PO got it cheap in a school auction (saw was only used one semester before shop program was shut down) and hung a single phase 3hp motor on it.

 

[cvairwerks]

This should give you some food for thought on setting things up for woodworking in the shop......http://www.paulkhomes.com/order-plans.html

 

[ez-duzit]

...The delta Unisaw has a 3 and 5 horse motor...

They had: 1.5, 3 and 5hp motors. I own a 1.5 and a 3, which are both adequate.

 

[woody 73]

Allen if you had just listed your city or better yet the closest craigslist in your area I could have found you a nice used table saw in your area for you to look at...

 

[ez-duzit]

73--he can and must do that himself. It is a process necessary to finding the right deal.

 

[hemiallen]

Thanks for the offer Woody.
My son is a wizard at Craigslist, but he costs me money. He just found an 8' schmeizer ring roller we need to go get for our new, wider spacing Vineyard. Changed from 10' x 7' to 11 x 5' spacing, 792 vines an acre is the benefit.

Allen

 

[R_einan]

I heard the new ones are not anywhere close to the older models, don’t have first hand on that, but that’s the consensus I’ve gotten. I think the older (80s-late 90s) greenish gray ones like this were US manufactured and of better quality. I wouldn’t pass up a deal on a powermatic or jet saw if you see one of those.

 

[quattro_sinko]

My understanding was that the "Platinum" edition was one of the last "all metal" Unisaws. I think mfg. and materials changed in the early 2000's or thereabouts

 

[6PTsocket]

Thanks again for the additional information. The delta Unisaw has a 3 and 5 horse motor, I suspect the 3 is big enough for my use.

I see Delta has a "new and improved" statement, are the older ones better quality? I'll start looking for used, their new price is pretty steep for me, and agree used can save a bundle, at times.

Yes, a hanger. It will house a work bay ( 20 x 14 doors) and 2 more 20x14's for an RV, Boat, Kabota vineyard tractor, 5 muscle cars, and a work room also. Tall enough for a second story. I wanted a Barn style to match the old 1930's barn we need to take down vs remodeling it, the second story in it is 18' x 24' and will be re-assembled in the new shop. floors are 12" wide x 2 1/2" thick lumber, support ceiling joists are 12" x 3" wood, and the siding is 10" x 2" wall boards. Bottom of floor has X braces, very cool looking design. My great Grandpa and his brothers built it, hate to loose it but we are in a flood plane, it has problems with past water seepage, asa the neighbors vineyard was leveled putting it in the low, downslope zone. And the county was becoming a pain on remodel restrictions so we changed plans midstream.

Due to all the vehicles, there isn't much free floorspace, even if we get a 2 wide lift, so the tall height allows storage and possibly floorspace and a hang-out area.

Allen

The Delta Unisaw that evolved from the original 1939 design is gone. A number of years ago Delta came out with a totally redesigned Unisaw that looks nothing like the old one. The old one is the one you are likely to see. That made millions of them over all those years. Since then Delta was sold by SB&D to a Taiwanese company called Chang Type, International. They are building them in SC, but there have been quality and parts issues.

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[pfaustus]

If this is for a hobby and you don't have extensive experience, I think the Saw Stop saws have excellent reviews and are worth the piece of mind. That kills the used option though.


Edit: That should be "peace of mind" by preserving pieces of you.

 

[hemiallen]

Thanks
I found a local unisaw, 240v single phase 5hp the guy says his dad bought new 20 years ago. It has the router table and extension ( 52"), its a 10" tilting arbor saw on the sticker. Looks good in the image, he wants $1500 and is 45 miles from me. A little more $ than it seems you-all suggest it should cost, maybe the son placing the add thinks its worth more but several other 3 phase units are under $1000. He says it needs to be gone due to him moving mid August.

Thanks
Allen

 

[pfaustus]

You may want to google for more info. Memory suggests that the titling arbor saw was not a unisaw, but a lesser model. Don't pay full unisaw money if that isn't what you are getting.

 

[quattro_sinko]

Thanks
I found a local unisaw, 240v single phase 5hp the guy says his dad bought new 20 years ago. It has the router table and extension ( 52"), its a 10" tilting arbor saw on the sticker. Looks good in the image, he wants $1500 and is 45 miles from me. A little more $ than it seems you-all suggest it should cost, maybe the son placing the add thinks its worth more but several other 3 phase units are under $1000. He says it needs to be gone due to him moving mid August.

Thanks
Allen

In the whole scheme of things, that price is closer to what they probably paid for the unit brand new. I think how far afield you are willing to go will dictate what is available, and at what cost. Personally, I'd pass on that price. Although he didn't mention it in this thread, I know another GJ member has a used Unisaw in the classifieds for nearly half of the price of the one you're looking at on CL. Might be worth looking at.

 

[R_einan]

Id say no more that 1k, while it is a 5hp unit, with some nice add ones, it seems a little steep at 1500, at least for my area. Depending on location that might be reasonable.

 

[ez-duzit]

...the titling arbor saw was not a unisaw, but a lesser model...

Correct. I'd pass on that one and the one in our classified.

 

[quattro_sinko]

You may want to google for more info. Memory suggests that the titling arbor saw was not a unisaw, but a lesser model. Don't pay full unisaw money if that isn't what you are getting.

Correct. I'd pass on that one and the one in our classified.

Am I missing something (serious question)? How are Unisaws not tilting arbor saws? I thought that they all tilted either left or right? Mine tilts right (beggars cant be choosers) and is a Unisaw.

 

[ez-duzit]

Am I missing something (serious question)? How are Unisaws not tilting arbor saws?...

What part of "tilting arbor saws are not Unisaws" don't you understand?

 

[Roberts210]

The older Unisaws are definitely better. The ones from the '50's and '60's seem to have the best cast iron in them.

I was in "Tool Time" tool store in Burbank a month ago. I saw this sitting there--the new Unisaw....

I asked if they were selling Unisaws now and the owner said, "No. That one was brought in for repair. It was broken when the worker tried to crank up the sawblade. Something stopped it from going up and the worker kept cranking on it. The new part costs $600."

I can't imagine anyone being able to break one of the older Unisaws by cranking on the blade raising wheel.

 

[quattro_sinko]

What part of "tilting arbor saws are not Unisaws" don't you understand?

I don't understand how that is a valid statement. Let me know if I'm missing anything.

Edit: Here's a link to a PDF from Delta. It's the Instruction Manual for a UNISAW 10" Right Tilting Arbor Saw. Their words, not mine:

http://www.deltamachineryparts.com/documents/instruction_manuals/En422-04-651-0069.pdf

 

[hemiallen]

Sorry,
the arbor was just from the sticker on the fence. I didn't know , and why I posted it, to verify if that sticker indicates it is NOT a unisaw, or if that sticker does indicate if it is a unisaw..

Allen

 

[quattro_sinko]

Sorry,
the arbor was just from the sticker on the fence. I didn't know , and why I posted it, to verify if that sticker indicates it is NOT a unisaw, or if that sticker does indicate if it is a unisaw..

Allen

No sweat, my confusion was not over your comment, but that of others. As far as I know, all Unisaws tilt either left or right. The notion that a tilting arbor saw is not a Unisaw is incorrect, I believe. I'd be open to looking at any information that indicates otherwise. Good luck in your search!

Edit: the Unisaw is typically referred to as a "cabinet" saw. I think (could be wrong here, too) because it has a semi-enclosed base, as compared to a "Contractor saw" (which Delta also sells) which has an open base with legs. Pretty much every modern table saw on the market features a tilting arbor, one way or the other.

 

[ez-duzit]

OP--the saw will say "Unisaw" if it is one. The fence could be anything at all.

qs--you have to be intentionally obtuse.

 

[quattro_sinko]

OP--the saw will say "Unisaw" if it is one. The fence could be anything at all.

qs--you have to be intentionally obtuse.

Intentionally obtuse? Just want to make sure that OP doesn't receive bad info.