Help settle a disagreement

[AV8R4AA]

I bought some tools from the internet site that sounds like Ebroke.
there was only 1 picture posted. Only the sizes were listed In the descriptio.
NOTHING ELSE.
I received the tools and they had Initials branded in to the
plastic handle. NOT VISABLE, NOR MENTIONED in the ad. The included
pictures I took after opening up the shopping box.

i called the seller out and he got very defensive.
Are initials or markings supposed to be descriptive in the ad?
what would you do?

 

[whateg01]

You bought them. They are now yours. Unless the seller offered a warranty or specifically said "there are no initials engraved on the handles" it is what it is.

Can't believe it's already been a week since the last I don't like what I bought thread.

Also, if I was the seller, I would also tell you to pound sand.

 

[Nobody-named-Olli]

Given the overall condition, move on with life & take some scotch-brite over the handles to smoothen eventual edges before they give you “hot spots” during use.

Kind regards,
Olli

 

[PCustoms]

Given the overall condition, move on with life

This.

None of those look pristine, so the initials don't detract any further

 

[mngundog]

100% positive feed-back?
I'm guessing this is them:

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[darkzero]

Been a while but I used to purchase a lot of used tools off ebay. BTW, ebroke sounds nothing like ebay to me. Some people don't like personalized engravings, some people don't care. If I'm looking at something in fairly new condition I prefer not to have engravings. If it's that important to you, you should ask. Sorry to say but this is your fault, it's up to the buyer to do their research.

Pictures are everything. If there's only 1 picture I'll probably move on but if it's something I'm really interested I'll ask questions & for more pictures regarding any concerns. If the seller can't be bothered to provide more info, I'll move on.

 

[neophyte]

I bought some tools from the internet site that sounds like Ebroke.
there was only 1 picture posted. Only the sizes were listed In the descriptio.
NOTHING ELSE.
I received the tools and they had Initials branded in to the
plastic handle. NOT VISABLE, NOR MENTIONED in the ad. The included
pictures I took after opening up the shopping box.

i called the seller out and he got very defensive.
Are initials or markings supposed to be descriptive in the ad?
what would you do?

In my opinion, yes, initials should be mentioned, or at least pictured.

 

[PCustoms]

100% positive feed-back?
I'm guessing this is them:

Pardon Our Interruption...

Seller's a bit of a DB for flipping it to the bottom, but still they overall look well used so it falls under "buyer beware".

 

[neophyte]

You bought them. They are now yours. Unless the seller offered a warranty or specifically said "there are no initials engraved on the handles" it is what it is.

Can't believe it's already been a week since the last I don't like what I bought thread.

Also, if I was the seller, I would also tell you to pound sand.

If it was dome minor scratching or dimply from whacking something with the handles, I might let it go, but inscribed initials are not “general use, snd when the name doesn’t match one’s own, can potentially be problematic.

 

[whateg01]

In my opinion, yes, initials should be mentioned, or at least pictured.

Yes that would have been the right thing to do. And yes, the seller is a jerk. But there's really nothing op can do about it. Caveat emptor.

 

[whateg01]

If it was dome minor scratching or dimply from whacking something with the handles, I might let it go, but inscribed initials are not “general use, snd when the name doesn’t match one’s own, can potentially be problematic.

Lots of things here point to the potential for a less than scrupulous seller. But good luck proving they are stolen or doing anything about it. Same goes for stuff on fbmp or cl. Really any used item nowadays. Or, maybe they belonged to the sellers great grampa. If that's the kind of thing a person loses sleep over, buying used tools today might not be their thing.

 

[mngundog]

If it was dome minor scratching or dimply from whacking something with the handles, I might let it go, but inscribed initials are not “general use, snd when the name doesn’t match one’s own, can potentially be problematic.

Why would the initials not matching one's own be problematic? He has proof he purchased them, and I don't believe Snap-on warranties second hand tools.

 

[whateg01]

Why would the initials not matching one's own be problematic? He has proof he purchased them, and I don't believe Snap-on warranties second hand tools.

That name is my witness protection name.

 

[CoogarXR]

You guys must not be ebay sellers, lol. A buyer can do "not as described" and force a return no matter what. It's happened to me several times. Is it douchebaggery? Sure. But so is taking deceptive pictures. So it's up to you if you want to go ***-for-tat on this. But you can absolutely send them back for a refund.

 

[zendriver]

Hornswoggled, IMO since the seller knew the buyer would not be happy with the branded tools. That's why they were flipped out of sight.

Can you do any thing about it? Not really and the seller knew that as well.

WELCOME TO eBay!

 

[neophyte]

Why would the initials not matching one's own be problematic? He has proof he purchased them, and I don't believe Snap-on warranties second hand tools.

Someone steals your nutdrivers and claims the screwdriver’s aren’t yours because they have someone else’s initials on name on them.
Literally, stamping your initials on tools used to be a literal requirement from trade guilds when you bought tools, because the tools were insured in many cases by the trade guild.
Removing initials or ownership markings is literally illegal in some states, as is removing serial numbers, since it can be considered proof of theft or receivership of stolen property.
Purchasing from eBay, if you retain printed out proof of the transaction, may help alleviate the likelihood of theft claims, but it can still be an issue, and eBay isn’t a legal way to “clean” old property of former ownership, like something like a bankruptcy auction can be.

 

[whateg01]

...
Removing initials or ownership markings is literally illegal in some states, as is removing serial numbers, since it can be considered proof of theft or receivership of stolen property.

Oh, somebody has got to show me that law!

 

[f121]

I would expect any engraving to be mentioned in the advert when buying used tools.

 

[mngundog]

Someone steals your nutdrivers and claims the screwdriver’s aren’t yours because they have someone else’s initials on name on them.
Literally, stamping your initials on tools used to be a literal requirement from trade guilds when you bought tools, because the tools were insured in many cases by the trade guild.
Removing initials or ownership markings is literally illegal in some states, as is removing serial numbers, since it can be considered proof of theft or receivership of stolen property.
Purchasing from eBay, if you retain printed out proof of the transaction, may help alleviate the likelihood of theft claims, but it can still be an issue, and eBay isn’t a legal way to “clean” old property of former ownership, like something like a bankruptcy auction can be.

Well he has proof he purchased these, so no worries there. He doesn't need to remove the marks, so no problem there. What states make it illegal to remove initials like that?

 

[a6hux]

Oh, somebody has got to show me that law!

It's illegal in many states, like Michigan (MCL 750.230 for firearms, MCL 750.415 for vehicles), and under federal law (18 U.S.C. § 511) to remove identification numbers or ownership marks from items like firearms and vehicles, often classifying it as a felony with potential jail time and fines, because it hinders tracking and aids theft or fraud, though laws vary and usually require intent to mislead for misdemeanor offenses

Other Property: Laws exist for other items, such as destroying official signs or property identification (Michigan's MCL 750.383 for guide boards/signs

This may apply! Who knows now days.

 

[DAustin]

If they had been listed as like new or NOS, I wouldn't be happy. But on well-worn tools it would be no big thing. I'd keep them and use them, and maybe never buy something from the guy again.

 

[whateg01]

It's illegal in many states, like Michigan (MCL 750.230 for firearms, MCL 750.415 for vehicles), and under federal law (18 U.S.C. § 511) to remove identification numbers or ownership marks from items like firearms and vehicles, often classifying it as a felony with potential jail time and fines, because it hinders tracking and aids theft or fraud, though laws vary and usually require intent to mislead for misdemeanor offenses

Other Property: Laws exist for other items, such as destroying official signs or property identification (Michigan's MCL 750.383 for guide boards/signs

This may apply! Who knows now days.

None of that is a screwdriver

 

[mngundog]

It's illegal in many states, like Michigan (MCL 750.230 for firearms, MCL 750.415 for vehicles), and under federal law (18 U.S.C. § 511) to remove identification numbers or ownership marks from items like firearms and vehicles, often classifying it as a felony with potential jail time and fines, because it hinders tracking and aids theft or fraud, though laws vary and usually require intent to mislead for misdemeanor offenses

Other Property: Laws exist for other items, such as destroying official signs or property identification (Michigan's MCL 750.383 for guide boards/signs

This may apply! Who knows now days.

LOL, so if I have decorative grips with my initials on it on a 1911, or bottom metal on a Model 70, I can't remove them?
With all the wacko laws out there, perhaps one State has something on the books, can't wait to hear about one that would apply here.

 

[neophyte]

Oh, somebody has got to show me that law!

Here, have a quick google search on the subject.
The specific laws will vary by state, and the likelihood will vary depending on the individual municipality, and whether a law enforcement officer might or does want to arrest you, for “whatever”, or a District Attorney wants to charge you for something.
Remember, Walmart has had people arrested for theft for failing to scan items at a self checkout, and then failed to turn over security video for months, and people have still gotten charged with theft.
It’s not necessarily likely you would get arrested and charged, but items could be seized simply for suspicion, say if your coworker is a thief and then the legal cost or time might not be worth trying to reclaim property you likely legally purchased.
In some states, “multitools” like Leatherman tools, are considered “burglars tools”.

 

[NHtoolguy]

I've learned to always confirm with the seller that no owner's marks are on a tool before I bid. I, too, have been sold items with grind marks or engravings that were not visible in the photographs. Whether the the seller did that intentionally or not, I didn't know. But, I learned to check before buying.

 

[finn]

The OP bought used tools.

Get over it and use them as intended. I have a bunch of tools, mostly old Craftsman, and some SnapOn, with numbers or initials that have no meaning to me.

They function just fine.

I doubt if one person in a thousand would GAF if my tools have engraving on them, or not.

If new is that important, flag down the SnapOn truck or order online.

Used is Used, as long as they function.

 

[AV8R4AA]

Guys, my question is more of the
"Do the right thing " genre than a legal
standpoint. I'm not concerned if these are stolen. My concern is that none of the
Branding marks were disclosed.

Who ever posted the EBay picture. Yes, that is the exact set in question. Had a picture shown the branding, automatically pass.
I do not feel I should have to ask every specific question about a product.
Either disclose condition, or photograph it. I got neither.

BTW, I don't go to the Dr. and have to ask him every possible defect I might or might not have. I have faith that the provider is up front and not evasive. No sane person would ask 50 million questions, just to cover Every-Possible-Situation.

That's my take, yours may vary

 

[The Metric System]

IMO it was cheezy for the seller to not provide a photo/mention of the initials but if I were the buyer here I'd chalk it up to "bought at risk" and move on with my life.

As a buyer, if sort of thing is important to me I'd make sure to only bid on items with a full set of photos or ask for additional photos before bidding.

As a seller, I would return the buyer's money just to save me the hassle but I'd also make fun of him a bit for making a thing of it.

This stuff about it being possibly "illegal" to remove those markings is one of the most deeply insane things I've ever seen on the internet, which is a high bar to clear.

 

[mngundog]

Guys, my question is more of the
"Do the right thing " genre than a legal
standpoint. I'm not concerned if these are stolen. My concern is that none of the
Branding marks were disclosed.

Who ever posted the EBay picture. Yes, that is the exact set in question. Had a picture shown the branding, automatically pass.
I do not feel I should have to ask every specific question about a product.
Either disclose condition, or photograph it. I got neither.

BTW, I don't go to the Dr. and have to ask him every possible defect I might or might not have. I have faith that the provider is up front and not evasive. No sane person would ask 50 million questions, just to cover Every-Possible-Situation.

That's my take, yours may vary

No doubt it was deceptive, and I don't no how the guy could maintain 100% positive feedback doing stuff like that. I wonder if ebay has a avenue to remove/contest negative reviews??? I've been on there for 20 years, but really haven't purchased much in the last 15.

 

[whateg01]

...
BTW, I don't go to the Dr. and have to ask him every possible defect I might or might not have. I have faith that the provider is up front and not evasive. No sane person would ask 50 million questions, just to cover Every-Possible-Situation.

There are regularly posts about a repair shop letting somebody know that their brakes are worn, complaining that the shop should never have even looked at the brakes.

 

[Steve_P]

I would send them back if you're not happy, and you're obviously not, especially at $120+ paid. Statistically, there's a zero chance that every single one of them "accidentally" had the initials not shown in the picture, so the seller was purposely being deceptive IMO.

 

[zendriver]

I doubt if one person in a thousand would GAF if my tools have engraving on them, or not.

They'd care if they paid good money for them and did not know in advance, they were engraved.

This has come up here more than once and good eBay sellers will disclose them up front.

Stupid Question: Engravings and Value

I've noted on fleabay and elsewhere, tool ads that declare "no engravings". How much and why does it reduce value so much, and is engraving in the minority due to the lower resale? Are engraved tools that much of a gamble?

www.garagejournal.com

 

[Bert_]

Does the engraving keep it from fitting in the screw?

It's a screwdriver not a centerpiece.

 

[PCustoms]

Does the engraving keep it from fitting in the screw?

It's a screwdriver not a centerpiece.

It's actually a nut driver, but whose paying attention to details anyway

 

[whateg01]

It's actually a nut driver, but whose paying attention to details anyway

Sometimes I use a nut driver to drive a screw!

And sometimes I open a paint can with a screwdriver!

 

[Wrench97]

It's a tool, will it do the job it's suppose to do? I yes use the the tool and get over it.

 

[mm08822]

Go buy a buffer and polishing compound and then spend 6 hours cleaning up your used tools. Used is used!

Dings, dents, scratches expected. Handles could have easily been ground down, melted, etc. Next time ask for a pic....or just buy new.

 

[PCustoms]

Sometimes I use a nut driver to drive a screw!

And sometimes I open a paint can with a screwdriver!

But have you ever driven a screw with a lid opener?

 

[rust in the eye]

An honest seller will disclose potential issues to potential buyers. An honest and smart seller will undersell his goods in an effort to manage too high expectations.
If the single photo didn't include these flaws then I say he was deceptive. An overly defensive reply and seemingly sketchy description confirms this in my mind.
For me tools are tools, not collectibles or jewelry so owners marks ain't the end of the world but they are a deal breaker for some so in general make a personalized tool less desireable/valuable.
Only you can decide if what you got remains good value. If not ask for a return and refund. E-bay will back you up if your concerns are legit.
Good luck
Feet in the picture is a deal breaker

 

[PCustoms]

Also, $110 for used nut drivers?

Wow.