Help Understanding Main Electrical Service with two Panels

[mousebob]

Hello all,

I was hoping you could help me understand my current electrical service. This is underground service. On the first picture here you can see the meter on the left and then a large locked metal box on the right. What is this metal box? It has barrel locks and cannot be opened by me.


Inside the basement are what I believe to be two main panels. They do not feed off each other. Photos:



The reason I ask is because I would like to hire an electrician to replace the Zinsco panel. I like to know everything I can before I hire someone. Are these considered subpanels because of that metal box outside? The reason I ask this is because on the electrical panels the ground and neutral wires are on the same busbar. Is that a problem?

 

[Terry D]

This looks like a current transformer cabinet and a CT meter. Only accessible by the POCO. Is this a house. This is probably a 400 amp service. I cant make out the size of the panels, are they both 200 amp. At least here in my area, 400 amp services are line voltage meters. The panels are main panels, not sub panels

 

[mousebob]

yes it is a house. there is a 200 amp and 225 amp panel

 

[Terry D]

I guess it could be a 600 amp, this would explain the CT enclosure. Not real common in my area for a residential service, but I have seen it. But that is defiantly a CT meter and cabinet

 

[mousebob]

Terry, thanks for your help.

With this configuration is it acceptable to have ground and neutral wires on the same busbar?

Thanks

 

[Terry D]

As long as there are no main circuit breakers outside or inside, other than the main in the panels, then these are main panels, not subs. So neutrals and grounds can be on the same buss bar which is the neutral buss, this bar also needs to be bonded to the panel enclosure

 

[mousebob]

Thanks again. I guess my concern is that there could have been a disconnect in that box. That would not be the case if it is a CT cabinet, correct?

 

[Terry D]

Thanks again. I guess my concern is that there could have been a disconnect in that box. That would not be the case if it is a CT cabinet, correct?

Correct. It just houses the Current transformers which takes a higher current and transforms it down so it can be safely monitored

 

[mousebob]

Thank you!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yeah i agree with Terry- its a PoCo CT cabinet.

Kinda odd for 400a service. Around here 400a service gets self contained meter. But every PoCo is different.

Pics are super blurry.

What is the brand on the other panel?

 

[Terry D]

They both appear to be Sylvania. Both could probably stand to be replaced

 

[mousebob]

They are both Sylvania panels - one takes Zinsco style breakers and I was considering replacing this one.

 

[Terry D]

They are both Sylvania panels - one takes Zinsco style breakers and I was considering replacing this one.

Defiantly the Zinsco style one. It might not be a bad idea to do both. I know for a fact there is issues with the Zinsco style, Not real sure about the other one

 

[mousebob]

Yes, I haven't heard problems about the other one but it seems like a reasonable idea to at least have it inspected when I have the other one replaced

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Sylvania was junk too!

 

[mousebob]

Are the non-Zinsco style Sylvania panels known to be problematic too?

 

[Shiftless]

Pardon my ignorance, but what kind of normal residential situation needs a 400 amp service?

Mega Mansion with resistance heating?

His and Hers fast rate electric car chargers?

 

[mousebob]

This is a home built in the late '70s or early '80s. It has electric fan forced heaters throughout. Perhaps that is why?

 

[mousebob]

It's about 2800 sf.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It all depends on the calculated load

 

[Shiftless]

It all depends on the calculated load

True
A poorly insulated 2800 sq. ft. Home with resistance heating is gonna use a lot of power.

mousebob:
I see you’re in Washington where electric rates are generally pretty low. What’s your cost per Kw/hr. ?

I pay 20 cents but rates climb past 50 for big users.

 

[Terry D]

Are the non-Zinsco style Sylvania panels known to be problematic too?

I have had to remove/replace a lot of the Zinsco style panels from homes being sold due to the arcing issue between the breaker and the buss. The times that I have replaced the other style was not for safety reasons, just someone wanting to upgrade their service. I know they are compared, with the Eaton BR panels, which are not top of the line

 

[Norcal]

Are the non-Zinsco style Sylvania panels known to be problematic too?

There was Zinsco American Switch and the infamous Zinsco, the AS breakers were the common one inch breakers like other manufacturers sold, they both were later branded as Sylvania & the Zinsco style was discontinued, the whole mess became Challenger and yes it’s ****. The successor is Eaton BR which I call “Zinsco II”. American Switch made panels for Monkey (Montgomery)Ward.

 

[Terry D]

Pardon my ignorance, but what kind of normal residential situation needs a 400 amp service?

Mega Mansion with resistance heating?

His and Hers fast rate electric car chargers?

This is probably an all electric home, electric heat draws a lot of power

 

[mousebob]

10.4 cents per kw/h

 

[Shiftless]

10.4 cents per kw/h

My baseline rate is about 20 cents, then for 101-400% of baseline it’s 40 cents and past that it’s a little over 50 cents per Kw/hr

Baseline isn’t a lot...depends on season
I’m always over and that’s with natural gas heat and NO A/C

 

[wyliesdiesels]

My baseline rate is about 20 cents, then for 101-400% of baseline it’s 40 cents and past that it’s a little over 50 cents per Kw/hr

Baseline isn’t a lot...depends on season
I’m always over and that’s with natural gas heat and NO A/C

Yeah you have Profit Gouge & Execute

Their current baseine rate is actually closer to 23 cents

Im only about an hour east of you and have MID instead of Profits Gone Elsewhere. Our baseline rate for the winter is 12.5cents... and we get more KwHrs than Pacific Graft and Extortion gives on baseline....

 

[Shiftless]

Yeah you have Profit Gouge & Execute

Their current baseine rate is actually closer to 23 cents

Im only about an hour east of you and have MID instead of Profits Gone Elsewhere. Our baseline rate for the winter is 12.5cents... and we get more KwHrs than Pacific Graft and Extortion gives on baseline....

Thanks for sharing that info. Many of my neighbors are putting photo voltaic panels on their roofs. I’ve asked some of them for data about Kw/hr. outputs from their panels and none of them can answer. It’s hard to make decisions without hard data. I’m afraid most of them are doing it for the “feel good” green lifestyle.
At least one of them has a few of their panels on a north facing portion of their roof. Many neighbors have panels partially shaded by large trees.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If you PM me your email i can send you a PDF chart i made that compares the rates for most of the bigger power companies in norcal