Help wiring a bathroom

[Todd.Brock]

Hey all, I need help doing the layout for a basement bathroom. I intend to have one recepticle by the sink, one can light over the shower, 2 wall sconces over the sink and one exhaust fan. The bathroom has 2 doors. I would like to use a 3 way set up so the lighting could be controlled at either door. The fan will be switched.. I would like to have the sconces and can switch separately, but I dont have the stud space for a three gang box. I will have to wire the sconces and can together on one switch. This will let me use a two gang(lighting and fan)
The panel is about 15 feet away. I only having two open breakers left. ( House is 2 years old, 200 amp service, Cutler Hammer CH series box and breakers)

First: Do I need 1 or 2 circuits? I have been told to use one 20a circuit wth a 20a GFI breaker so the whole bathroom is protected and others have told me to def. use two circuits. The biggest dilemma (other than a possible code issue) I see with this is if trips, you are in the dark and have to go into the storage closet to reset.

Second : If I use two, what should be on one vs. the other?

I bought a roll of 12ga. so whatever I do it will be in 12 ga. even if it only needs to be in 14. I havent opened anything yet so anything can be returned. I have a small roll of 12-3 for the 3 way setup.

Can some one please help me out with the best course of action. All work will be visible until the remainder of the basement is finished (possibly never) and may even sell before that happens. I would like to stay up to code and if an inspector ever looked at, it would be approved.

 

[Tech Guy]

Where are you located so we know which code applies ?

 

[Todd.Brock]

Sorry. I am in good ole USA. Cincinnati Ohio to be specific.

 

[KCarGuy]

I would run it on just one GFI breaker. You will not be pulling that many Amps from 2 wall Sconces and an exhaust fan. (run some eco-friendly low wattage bulbs).
Then it always depends on what you will be plugging into your outlet for use.
14 wire would probably be fine...although I am a big fan of 10 stranded.
In my Garage I run #10 to the center Outlet or (main box) on each wall, then use #12 from each Outlet to the center box. The #10 can carry a larger load, if I am running many things at once.
And I never run outlets in series. (one to the other to the other). Each Outlet Has 3 wires that all go back to the center box, splice to the #10s, and then go back to the Breaker box.
Each wall has 3 sets of outlets and each wall gets its own breaker.
We have to bend conduit and run individual wires here in the Chicago area, by code...but it makes it alot easier to replace or add wires.
Some say that is overkill...

In short, run #10 from (1) breaker to your bathroom and wire everything off of that with your #12 wire. (#12 should be fine for everything, if you really want)
Good luck...

 

[mrb]

a few thoughts:
I would switch everything separately like you want to. If you only have room for a 2 gang box, use a single switch for the fan, and a double switch for the lights. The standard double switches are ugly, but the decora ones look nice and dont look terribly different from a single switch. I have a triple decora switch for 2 lights and a fan, plus a gfi receptacle in a double gang box in my bathroom

You need to supply the receptacle from a 20a circuit

Dont use a GFI breaker. Just use a gfi receptacle. I dont think you want to have to go to the breaker box to reset it, plus a gfi receptacle is $10 and a gfi breaker is $40 or more

You CAN NOT supply the receptacle and lighting/fan from the same circuit. Code requires a 20a circuit supplying the bathroom, and prohibits it from supplying the lights or fan.

 

[tfi racing]

Two circuits for a small bathroom?#10 wire?GFI Breaker?What are you guys doing in there,taking a leak or running a welding shop!Give me a break...

One 15A circuit is likely way more than adequate,not a requirement in these parts.Make sure your switches are more than 3 feet from the shower,you can use a Decora style double switch for your fan/shower lite with a single in a two gang box if space is that tight,a timer switch on the fan is always a good idea to keep the humidity down.I would just use a gfi receptacle,I'm too cheap to spend the money on the breaker,the other advantage is it is easy to find IF it ever trips.

 

[mrb]

Two circuits for a small bathroom?#10 wire?GFI Breaker?What are you guys doing in there,taking a leak or running a welding shop!Give me a break...

One 15A circuit is likely way more than adequate,not a requirement in these parts.Make sure your switches are more than 3 feet from the shower,you can use a Decora style double switch for your fan/shower lite with a single in a two gang box if space is that tight,a timer switch on the fan is always a good idea to keep the humidity down.I would just use a gfi receptacle,I'm too cheap to spend the money on the breaker,the other advantage is it is easy to find IF it ever trips.

Dont need two circuits, BUT the lighting/fan can not be supplied from the required 20a circuit supplying the receptacle. in the US, NEC requires the bathroom receptacles be fed from a 20a circuit. So put in a 20a cir for the receptacles, and supply the lighting/fan from somewhere else.

 

[Gary S]

If I was in your situation, I'd go to Menards and pick up one of their $50 Cutler Hammer 100amp panels for $50. Mount it beside the full panel. Also pick up a Cutler Hammer type CH 100amp breaker to fill the last two slots in your existing panel and subfeed the new panel. Mount the new panel near the old one and connect them with #2 wire. This way you would have about 20 new slots for your bathroom and any other future expansion, and still spend very little money.
The $50 panel comes with 5 or 6 breakers so you don't have to buy any other new breakers at this time.

 

[LoneGunman]

MRB has it right.

 

[Aceman]

Dont need two circuits, BUT the lighting/fan can not be supplied from the required 20a circuit supplying the receptacle. in the US, NEC requires the bathroom receptacles be fed from a 20a circuit. So put in a 20a cir for the receptacles, and supply the lighting/fan from somewhere else.

MRB has it right.

I disagree.

210.11(C)3 Exception clearly allows one 20 amp branch circuit to feed all outlets(receps, lights, fan, etc) in a bathroom as long as the circuit does not have any other outlets.

 

[mrb]

I disagree.

210.11(C)3 Exception clearly allows one 20 amp branch circuit to feed all outlets(receps, lights, fan, etc) in a bathroom as long as the circuit does not have any other outlets.

good catch, I would have to agree. Def want to use a GFI receptcale and not a GFI breaker in that case.

 

[Todd.Brock]

Thanks for all the help and advise. I am trying to keep this as simple as possible. I will run one circuit, 20a, 12 ga wire, use the gfi recepticle, and power lights and fan as well, per code 210.11(C)3 Exception. Thanks again!

 

[Scotto]

I'd use one of these if you don't have room for a 3 gang box

 

[sberry]

Yup. good catch by Ace, I was going to comment but no need other than the stuff besides the recept can go ahead of the gfci. Personally in places with adequate breaker space I run a single dedicated circuit for the bath recepts, you can tie into an existing light circuit for the rest? I like 14 wire if I can get that stuff on a 15, just so much easier to wire all those fixture connections.
Everyone has their own methods to some extent and with remodels there are some limitations but when I do a new house or complete re-wire I like to put all the lights on 15A and all the recepts on 20. When I look in the panel it eliminates a lot of confusion. With modern lamps you got to work to turn on 200 watts of light in most cases.

 

[Todd.Brock]

Hey all. Thanks for the advise. I googled that exception to the code and there are exceptions to the exception if you keep reading. I found a building inspector forum that couldnt even decipher the two.. Since I was only 15 feet away from the panel which is in the basement, I just ran a dedicated 20amp circuit to a GFI recepticle. It took 15 extra minutes and eliminates any confusion. PLUS this is how the other bathrooms were done so I just followed suite.

Scotto, Thanks for the heads up.. I actually found one of those horizontal switches that have a 3 way on top and regular single pole on the bottom.. Its perfect for what I needed. The only drawback is that it was rated at 15amps. The gentleman at Home Depot said I could put a 15amp switch on a 20amp circuit. I wasnt sure about that so I put in a 15amp breaker since I only had a 15amp switch to be safe. Its on 12 ga wire since that what I had. I figured better to have it all consistent rather than have a weak link on a 20amp. Im sure there is more room discussion on that, but thats how it turned out.. To.. Time for drywall. Thanks again!

 

[sberry]

The gentleman at Home Depot said I could put a 15amp switch on a 20amp circuit. I wasnt sure about that so I put in a 15amp breaker since I only had a 15amp switch to be safe. Its on 12 ga wire since that what I had.

Yes, you can put 15A rated devices on 20A circuits. A 15A breaker wont hurt for sure.