Help wiring an hour meter and a compressor please

[Xicaque]

Brethren,

I have a QP 7.5 Quincy Compressor that I want to install this hour meter on so I can measure the running hours in order to track better maintenance of this lifetime investment.

In addition to that, I need help with size of wire and breaker. Yes, I've read many posts in here but that was before I got the compressor. Now that I have it, I am posting pictures below of the data plate and such. This will be installed in my attached garage.

The house has a 200 amp service panel. I want to install a switch disconnect so I can turn off the power to it when I am not running it or to prevent the compressor from starting in the middle of the night. No, I do not want to use the breaker as the on/off switch. The compressor will be about 10 feet from the service panel and within line of site.

Search fleebay for REDINGTON-722-0004-Hour-Meter-AC-Quartz/ since the link did not work.

Where exactly from the following pictures do I wire the hour meter to? I am not an electrician as you can tell but can follow directions quite well.

Thanks for the help.

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[Bjm364]

You are right at 30 amps so you need to go to a 60A disconnect fused down to 80 percent of the load "40A fuses" 8 AWG wire. With an emon-dmon meter, you power your meter and then put the supplied current transformers around the feed wires. If you are using that type of meter.

 

[Xicaque]

Do I have to go with a fused disconnect? Did you look at the meter I provided? I already have the meter. I'd like a member to tell me where to wire it in the starter if that is possible.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Xicaque]

http://www.amazon.com/Square-Schneider-Electric-QO200TRNM-7-5-Kilowatt/dp/B002YEN8YK?tag=vglnk-c47-20

This is the disconnect that I'd like to use. Another member is using it for a similar application (7.5 hp, 230v compressor) on this thread http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=216483

 

[jayrush13]

You don't want to use a disconnect to turn a motor on and off. You just use them to disconnect power to service it and since your panel is 10 feet away you can just use it

You need to wire in a hand, off , auto switch on your starter

 

[jayrush13]

And as far as your hour meter goes is it a 240 volt hour meter if so just wire it in down stream of your starter if its just 120 pull a neutral and a hot off one leg to power it

 

[skiingman]

Hour meter. Great idea. When I buy a lifetime compressor like a Quincy I'll do that. My Kobalt is at 12 years or so and still kicking, but I doubt I'll be able to get parts for it down the road when I need them.

 

[Norcal]

And as far as your hour meter goes is it a 240 volt hour meter if so just wire it in down stream of your starter if its just 120 pull a neutral and a hot off one leg to power it

I would not advise using a 120V hour meter without a relay, odd things can happen, or get a auxiliary contact to isolate it from the control wiring, using a 240V meter is simpler, just connect it to the coil terminals of the starter.

 

[sberry]

Put a ball valve on it in case something downstream is leaking, it wont come on, all this adds more problems than it solves. Same with an hour meter. There is a reason it doesn't come with one. I am not a fan of adding devices with little wires to a unit with heavy breaker and not designed for it. You wont need to "do maintenance" on this comp. With modern comp oil the change rate is in "years" for a home user. An 8 wire and 50A breaker.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I am not a fan of adding devices with little wires to a unit with heavy breaker and not designed for it.

This is an issue. The OP gave us the name and model of the hourmeter. It is a multivoltage unit that will run on anything up to 240v AC and the logical thing to do is supply it with current off the bottom of the starter, where the leads supply the motor. But you have the issue of a 50 amp breaker protecting an 18 gauge wire when you do this.

Charles

 

[pattenp]

You are to use the HP rating to size the supply conductors, not the listed amps. Being a 7.5HP that's 40A. So 40A X 1.25 = 50A, the supply conductors need to be #6 NM or #8 THHN in conduit.

 

[sberry]

The rest of the wire in the unit is probably 12 and there may be some more protection built in. Here is my take. The op has a nice new unit and there are enough things to worry about and after a year the hour meter will be long lost importance. Now its new like a new car and you figure you gonna outthink everyone and protect this when in reality single oil change with synth comp oil will last it well beyond your first heart attack.

Come back a year later after you get it set up and working with a hose reel and a couple whips, give it a year and see if you really need to add extra expense and shady design to something so carefully engineered as it is???? Spend the effort plumbing a ball valve and a hose thru the wall so you can drain a shot of condensate on occasion, that is something you would see real return on.

 

[sberry]

You know the amp-s, this thing is designed to run under code and nema connected to an 8 cable. Is there an owners manual for these things? Do they have electric service guide? No matter what that sticker says its not 7 1/2 hp-its about 5 and a half, it draws 32 A,,, a known value X1.25 and its 40 give or take not 50

 

[sberry]

That's a pretty respectable compressor. I would have one if I wasn't on shabby rural power lines. Mines is bought and paid for but use a 3 and a 4 if I need to do the same thing. You have as good a one appliance solution as it can get running from common electric service. Just like welding machines,,, yes you can hook 300 trannys up in the garage but its not for everyone and most would get a super lot of use out of a dc buzz box or small mig without dimming the lights.

You can work 2 or 3 or more men from this till they drop, I personally might shut it off if I went on vacation, shut the valve and turn the breaker off but there is no point in going thru all this not to have air on demand.

This forum got me to shut off my secondary/backup. It comes on twice a year, I shut the breaker off. I got 200 gallons of tank on, a 3hp keeps it full.

 

[sberry]

Since internet opinions are easy I really think any self respecting handy type would likely pride himself on finding a range cord and outlet. There is a lot of old range wire for a 10 ft run.

I know a couple master electricians got all this old stuff cobbled up at home. My neighbor has a 60A fuse entrance panel,,, it is fed 4 wire, he did drill out the bond and add ground bar.

Last week I turned down a handyman deal for an install where the plumber sold an electric and got the wire and a couple connectors,,, all you got to do is,,,, etc. The place had fuses, the old service was gas. It was low wattage but they had 10 wire, the taps on the panel were not used but I didn't have any disconnecting means. The first plumber was rightfully concerned about wiring this up. Had it been a breaker panel job with 2 slots free no problem but it needed a 1 armed bandit in it. I really should carry a small disconnect behind the seat.

 

[sberry]

The service was in great condition as was the panel. It would have took the added load. They had all gas appliances and no water ever got in it. As I recall it must have had 8 branch fuses.

I also replaced the first electric install I ever did last week. ha

 

[Xicaque]

this report was inside the manual

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[Xicaque]

You don't want to use a disconnect to turn a motor on and off. You just use them to disconnect power to service it and since your panel is 10 feet away you can just use it

You need to wire in a hand, off , auto switch on your starter

I am not using the disconnect as an on/off. It will be used as a service disconnect.

as for the hand, off, auto switch; a unit this expensive comes with it. I just did not take a picture of the whole compressor as you can see.

As I already said above, this unit is top $$$$$$. It comes with enough ball valves. no need to add more to it except to plumbing branches if I was going that route. What I need ideas besides electrical, is what air filter, coalescent filters the board members recommend...but that is another topic...right now, I am seeking help on wiring it along with the hour meter.


Charles, thanks for chiming in. I will pm you shortly my friend.

Pattenp, thanks for the input. Truly appreciated! Check your inbox pls.

 

[oilslick]

Sberry made some good points early but then he lost me! I too like the hour meter idea but wouldn't be comfortable with any hard wired meter hooked to that big of wire. I would like pics of it sitting in its new home! I have an old Quincy 325 and it is heaven o be around it at startup .

 

[jayrush13]

I am not using the disconnect as an on/off. It will be used as a service disconnect.

as for the hand, off, auto switch; a unit this expensive comes with it. I just did not take a picture of the whole compressor as you can see.

As I already said above, this unit is top $$$$$$. It comes with enough ball valves. no need to add more to it except to plumbing branches if I was going that route. What I need ideas besides electrical, is what air filter, coalescent filters the board members recommend...but that is another topic...right now, I am seeking help on wiring it along with the hour meter.


Charles, thanks for chiming in. I will pm you shortly my friend.




Pattenp, thanks for the input. Truly appreciated! Check your inbox pls.

If it has a HOA switch and is only 10' away from the panel there is no need to waste money on a disconnect just hit the off button when you leave the garage

 

[Xicaque]

Sberry made some good points early but then he lost me! I too like the hour meter idea but wouldn't be comfortable with any hard wired meter hooked to that big of wire. I would like pics of it sitting in its new home! I have an old Quincy 325 and it is heaven o be around it at startup .

You are not the only one!

 

[Xicaque]

If it has a HOA switch and is only 10' away from the panel there is no need to waste money on a disconnect just hit the off button when you leave the garage

I think we have the terminology messed up.

The service disconnect will be the HOA.

 

[jayrush13]

I think we have the terminology messed up.

The service disconnect will be the HOA.

I don't have any terminology messed up I'm a licenced journeyman electrician in 2 states I deal with this stuff every day

A service disconnect kills power to the equipment a Hand-Off-Auto switch controls the starter to stay off turn on all the time or run on auto from a control point

 

[Xicaque]

Ok, got it. There are members here using service disconnects to cut off power to the unit. That is what I want to use.

I was not implying that YOU had the terminology messed up. That was not my intent. I am also licensed nationally but not in the electrical field. That is why I posted here for help as I am a super handy DIY type and can follow instructions from experts in their field.

I got the wire, circuit breaker and the disconnect box covered. What do think about the hour meter? The one I have posted, multi voltage, how can I wire it? Size of wire?

Instructions came with it and this is where I need the help as I am not proficient in reading schematics. So take a look at the pic below and grab one of the pics I've posted of the starter and tell where to hook each wire from there to the hour meter.

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[jayrush13]

Well it looks like you would need to pull a neutral with your 2 hots and ground and just pull off one leg on the bottom of your starter. If you use #12 you should be fine that's all that is being used for the control circuit in there so it will be fine that size

 

[Charles (in GA)]

You know the amp-s, this thing is designed to run under code and nema connected to an 8 cable. Is there an owners manual for these things? Do they have electric service guide? No matter what that sticker says its not 7 1/2 hp-its about 5 and a half, it draws 32 A,,, a known value X1.25 and its 40 give or take not 50

32amp is about the norm for a TRUE 7½ hp compressor. I have a true 7½ hp unit that also draws about 32 amp and supplied it with #6. Probably overkill, but the unit draws about 190 amps peak for a split second during start and with #6 the wire is not the choke point for sure.

I know the OP already has the meter, but another option is to use a vibration operated meter. They are readily available.

Charles

 

[Xicaque]

So what is meant by full load amps? See pic on post 17. Is the motor on my unit not a true 7.5? Can I get away with using #8?

How are vibration operated meters installed Charles? Never new of this option. Easier to install?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

So what is meant by full load amps? See pic on post 17. Is the motor on my unit not a true 7.5? Can I get away with using #8?

How are vibration operated meters installed Charles? Never new of this option. Easier to install?

Full load amps are show on the unit test document shown in your last pic you posted.......... 36.0 amps.

http://www.grainger.com/product/INTERMATIC-Hour-Meter-4CAZ9?s_pp=false

Bear in mind, this is Grainger prices, I'm sure the meter can be found cheaper elsewhere. It simply works on vibration to run the clock mechanism. You mount it where it will get a good shaking and you are done.

look closely at the pic (the big pic on the Grainger web site shows it clearly), under the number 30 on the bottom of the dial..... "Made in West Germany"...... you would think they would have changed that years ago.

Charles

 

[Xicaque]

Holy ****! I am not gonna go further with that vibration meter idea. Nice catch on that West Germany labeling Charles! Gives me flashbacks when I was stationed there and the wall was still up....

Thanks for clarifying the full load amp. I guess I can brag I have a true 7.5 too

I will get back to you via pm tomorrow. I am tired. Good night. Thanks for the help. Great forum!

 

[Norcal]

Sberry made some good points early but then he lost me! I too like the hour meter idea but wouldn't be comfortable with any hard wired meter hooked to that big of wire. I would like pics of it sitting in its new home! I have an old Quincy 325 and it is heaven o be around it at startup .

And how do you think they do it elsewhere? To give a domestic example, have you looked inside a electric range or dryer? Industrial control wiring is usually 16 or 14 AWG & depending on the size of the overcurrent device, it may or may not have a fuse on the control circuit.

Nothing wrong with adding the hour meter.....

 

[sberry]

There is a limit to how small the control wiring can be. As you said,,, the appliance is designed for the max ocpd and the wire may be different. But whats in it for us to encourage an amateur to start modifying a highly engineered machine especially when there is no gain for him either except for an exercise in mental ************?

He is about 25 times as likely to die from driving to get a quart of oil as it is the comp will die from lack of maintenance. That doesn't mean it wouldn't hurt to change it after a few years if you run it a lot but it takes a while to put a real hour on a comp at home.

 

[pattenp]

I like that description. I need to remember that one.....

............ But whats in it for us to encourage an amateur to start modifying a highly engineered machine especially when there is no gain for him either except for an exercise in mental ************?
..........

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The relay in the pic is a more modern, DIN rail mounted unit which is configurable for different uses by additions such as the adjustable thermal limiter on the bottom, which is attached by blades that install where wires would normally go in the bottom of the relay, and the screws tighten it in place. In addition, the relay has optional NO/NC switches mounted on the sides. They are mechanically operated by the movement of the main relay. The one in the pic has an unused switch on the left side of it. All one needs to do is run a circuit thru the NO contacts of this switch to control the hourmeter. It can be done with a separate 120v circuit could be brought into the box and routed thru this switch, just for the purpose of powering the hourmeter. --OR-- the OP could bring a neutral, #8 or #6 or whatever is being used for the hots, from the panel and into the starter control box, expressly for the purpose of providing a neutral for the meter. In both cases, the meter will be 120v powered and switched by the movement of the contactor.

Charles

 

[Xicaque]

There is a limit to how small the control wiring can be. As you said,,, the appliance is designed for the max ocpd and the wire may be different. But whats in it for us to encourage an amateur to start modifying a highly engineered machine especially when there is no gain for him either except for an exercise in mental ************?

He is about 25 times as likely to die from driving to get a quart of oil as it is the comp will die from lack of maintenance. That doesn't mean it wouldn't hurt to change it after a few years if you run it a lot but it takes a while to put a real hour on a comp at home.

Do you hate me? Mental ************? Die from driving...? WTF?? I want to add a meter and I asked this board for help. You seem to be against my wish to add it. I bought it. Well, no it was actually bought by the moving company that messed my old one.

Lighten up bro! If I want to LED lights to tell me when it hits 120 psi, would you still be against it?

I know that the Quincy is top notch. Well, I really don't care if they are installing WEG motors instead of Baldors but I am not mad at Quincy.

Charles, I'll pm you in a few.

 

[sberry]

I don't hate you but ,,,,, have done a few things like this. Most of them I eventually regret or realize it was less important than when I started.

 

[Bjm364]

Ebay the meter and buy an emon-dmon. LOL

 

[Bjm364]

In the pic with the meter wiring drawn in, it looks like the meter is wired across both legs of the 220v. Its hard to trace the wires because there are no pics of the overload block on the bottom of the starter. One of the legs of the meter needs to go to a grounded (neutral) conductor according to the wiring diagram. Don't let the magic smoke out!

 

[Charles (in GA)]

In the pic with the meter wiring drawn in, it looks like the meter is wired across both legs of the 220v. Its hard to trace the wires because there are no pics of the overload block on the bottom of the starter. One of the legs of the meter needs to go to a grounded (neutral) conductor according to the wiring diagram. Don't let the magic smoke out!

As many times as I have looked at those drawings, for some reason, I kept thinking one of them was across the two hot legs (240v). My first reaction was, "no, he is incorrect" then I looked again at the drawings, and realized that this is not a 240v meter at all.

You are correct, all of the drawings show what is actually a 120v installation, which is one hot, and one to neutral or ground. Thank you for pointing that gross mistake out.

See if I can fix that.

Pics above edited and reposted.

Guess I could end up owing him a meter if I caused it to get fried. Thats what I get for working on the net too late at nite.

Charles

 

[Norcal]

I think we have the terminology messed up.

The service disconnect will be the HOA.

A "service disconnect" is the disconnect of the service entrance conductors.

HOA switch is NOT a allowable disconnect.

 

[Xicaque]

Ebay the meter and buy an emon-dmon. LOL

Which one!