Help wiring single phase 2 capacitor hoist.

[asterik216]

So I got the motor with all the cords cut and everything basically disconnected. I have looked bunch online for the same model wiring diagrams. I have found some that only have 1 capacitor but none with 2. When looking for just general diagrams they always show the capacitors as having both leads connected separately but these are all connected together. I am pretty sure the blue is start the white is run and black is common as long as I did it correctly going from highest to lowest Ohm's. It originally came with a 6 pin rocker switch I believe but I only have a 6 pin 3 position switch that I also need to wire. I don't think that makes a difference as it is still 6 pins but im no expert. I did have it wired up as best I could from what I found online and it would just buzz when you flip the switch. I read that could be something to do with capacitors. Like maybe I didn't have them hooked up correctly.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Bert_]

Pretty hard to guess, especially with a Chinese motor.

Best bet would be to call the manufacturer. They should have some sort of documentation

 

[dogdog]

it's just an AC induction motor right not sure if the Chinese invented something new? figure it out is not rocket science. make use of your multimeter and you sure don't need a fluke for this one LOL .... There was a link in the practical machinist forum that have all possible configurations for reversing a single phase AC induction motor, you can use that as a guide to help you with your multi meter finding..

1) you have 2 capacitors in parallel... their capacitance value add... treated as one capacitor.

2) you have in the pic 3 wires coming out is this expected to be reverse-able also with some sort of remote with these connections or this is just the area for capacitor and incoming AC L1 L2..?... post the diagram ?

 

[dogdog]

This link. should be the same... if it is buzzing, check capacitor for it's value first. it might be bad. or the centrifugal switch might be bad. Worse case you might have to separate the two and verify them individually.....


Not ask you to reverse your one direction motor, but the wiring is still the same. you can use them to help you trouble shoot.

Help Please ~ Wiring the Switch to the motor

Yes ... I know... there are many many posts to this question....but i find them all VERY confusing (Electrical work just escapes me) Here is my newer motor... and my switch... can someone please draw me a simple diagram with simple instructions on how to wire this dog up :~) Included are the...

www.practicalmachinist.com

 

[asterik216]

it's just an AC induction motor right not sure if the Chinese invented something new? figure it out is not rocket science. make use of your multimeter and you sure don't need a fluke for this one LOL .... There was a link in the practical machinist forum that have all possible configurations for reversing a single phase AC induction motor, you can use that as a guide to help you with your multi meter finding..

1) you have 2 capacitors in parallel... their capacitance value add... treated as one capacitor.

2) you have in the pic 3 wires coming out is this expected to be reverse-able also with some sort of remote with these connections or this is just the area for capacitor and incoming AC L1 L2..?... post the diagram ?

This link. should be the same... if it is buzzing, check capacitor for it's value first. it might be bad. or the centrifugal switch might be bad. Not ask you to reverse your one direction motor, but the wiring is still the same. you can use them to help you trouble shoot.

Help Please ~ Wiring the Switch to the motor

Yes ... I know... there are many many posts to this question....but i find them all VERY confusing (Electrical work just escapes me) Here is my newer motor... and my switch... can someone please draw me a simple diagram with simple instructions on how to wire this dog up :~) Included are the...

www.practicalmachinist.com

Yes you can reverse direction. It's for a hoist/winch so the cable needs to go in and out. My problem is I am not sure what wires the capacitors should be connected to. Then I am also not toally sure how the switch is wired to have forward and reverse. Also my meter is a Fluke but I fortunately it doesn't do micro ferrets so I can't check the capacitors. But my guess is they are probably fine I just have them hooked up in the wrong place maybe. I tried to short them out after turning it on but there was no spark. I am not sure if maybe they short themselves out and doesn't keep a charge cause of how they are connected.

 

[Bert_]

it's just an AC induction motor right not sure if the Chinese invented something new? figure it out is not rocket science. make use of your multimeter and you sure don't need a fluke for this one LOL .... There was a link in the practical machinist forum that have all possible configurations for reversing a single phase AC induction motor, you can use that as a guide to help you with your multi meter finding..

1) you have 2 capacitors in parallel... their capacitance value add... treated as one capacitor.

2) you have in the pic 3 wires coming out is this expected to be reverse-able also with some sort of remote with these connections or this is just the area for capacitor and incoming AC L1 L2..?... post the diagram ?

They didn't invent it but there are many ways to bring out the leads. Add a reversing switch and it's even less easy to make a guess.

 

[asterik216]

I have thought about pretty much eliminating all the wires I can so it's the minimum needed to start. All I would maybe need is the capacitors and power from the wall I think. I can just touch the wires closing the circuit and it should start up I think. To switch rotation you just reverse what wires the hot and neutral are connected to? I'm not 100% on that though.

 

[Bert_]

My best guess is that there is no specific start winding. Probably wires something like this.

 

[dogdog]

mfd or ufd is common if it have capacitance mode it will do... the range of ufd will dependent on the meter, you'll have to check that manual.

Since you only have a pic of 3 wires and a capacitor, hard to tell, you'll have to read that post maybe to identify which witch is which..

you'll have to check if those two capacitor are in series or parallel... means physically checking them how they are connected.. one basic thing you can assume, it's just treated as one capacitor, and you will have to verify both are good working order individually. They do go bad.

now on the motor you have only 3 wire leads coming out ? is the remote also connected to that area? If it is only the incoming power L1 L2 and the capacitor then it is easier, if not... well it will be fun trying to figure out after you understand how they work. That link have the info , pretty sure you can look up the diagram and brand of that hoist too.

 

[dogdog]

They didn't invent it but there are many ways to bring out the leads. Add a reversing switch and it's even less easy to make a guess.

That is what I am saying... there are only so many ways..op to make use of that fluke he has.

 

[dogdog]

I have thought about pretty much eliminating all the wires I can so it's the minimum needed to start. All I would maybe need is the capacitors and power from the wall I think. I can just touch the wires closing the circuit and it should start up I think. To switch rotation you just reverse what wires the hot and neutral are connected to? I'm not 100% on that though.

If it is an AC induction motor, you can't reverse it by just switch polarity like a DC motor... is that a DC motor or AC induction motor ?

 

[Bert_]

That is what I am saying... there are only so many ways..op to make use of that fluke he has.

But your still making a guess. Maybe an educated one but a guess. I've been there and thought I had it figured out, end up with a smoked motor once or twice. Sometimes it will even work for a while even though you have it wired wrong. If you can get a hold of someone it's much easier to make a phone call and know it's right.

 

[dogdog]

But your still making a guess. Maybe an educated one but a guess. I've been there and thought I had it figured out, end up with a smoked motor once or twice. Sometimes it will even work for a while even though you have it wired wrong. If you can get a hold of someone it's much easier to make a phone call and know it's right.

if it is an ac induction motor, and that area have incoming power, and a capacitor connection. you can pretty much find out two of the three wires... and it's basically what you draw...

one of the capacitor wire always goes to the centrifugal switch..
one of the capacitor wire usually go to L1 or L2 hot lead.

if it is something else... well OP might have to give more info about that hoist motor. usually should be more wires if that area also house the reverse wiring...

But you are right an educated guess...

 

[asterik216]

it's just an AC induction motor right not sure if the Chinese invented something new? figure it out is not rocket science. make use of your multimeter and you sure don't need a fluke for this one LOL .... There was a link in the practical machinist forum that have all possible configurations for reversing a single phase AC induction motor, you can use that as a guide to help you with your multi meter finding..

1) you have 2 capacitors in parallel... their capacitance value add... treated as one capacitor.

2) you have in the pic 3 wires coming out is this expected to be reverse-able also with some sort of remote with these connections or this is just the area for capacitor and incoming AC L1 L2..?... post the diagram ?

mfd or ufd is common if it have capacitance mode it will do... the range of ufd will dependent on the meter, you'll have to check that manual.

Since you only have a pic of 3 wires and a capacitor, hard to tell, you'll have to read that post maybe to identify which witch is which..

you'll have to check if those two capacitor are in series or parallel... means physically checking them how they are connected.. one basic thing you can assume, it's just treated as one capacitor, and you will have to verify both are good working order individually. They do go bad.

now on the motor you have only 3 wire leads coming out ? is the remote also connected to that area? If it is only the incoming power L1 L2 and the capacitor then it is easier, if not... well it will be fun trying to figure out after you understand how they work. That link have the info , pretty sure you can look up the diagram and brand of that hoist too.

I only included the pic of the wires from the motor and the capacitors as I thought that was maybe all that was needed. There is a terminal block everything connected to. Then there is also a 6 pin 3 position switch. So the switch is up off and down. The capacitors are supposed to be a start and a run capacitor I believe. They are connected in parallel?

 

[Bert_]

if it is an ac induction motor, and that area have incoming power, and a capacitor connection. you can pretty much find out two of the three wires... and it's basically what you draw...

one of the capacitor wire always goes to the centrifugal switch..
one of the capacitor wire usually go to L1 or L2 hot lead.

if it is something else... well OP might have to give more info about that hoist motor. usually should be more wires if that area also house the reverse wiring...

But you are right an educated guess...

I don't think this motor even has a centrifugal switch.

 

[jbfsr]

Maybe this is close.

 

[asterik216]

Maybe this is close.

That is the hoist it is harbor freight. I have the 880lb version though and this is the 440lb.

880 lb. Electric Hoist with Remote Control

Amazing deals on this 880Lb Electric Hoist With Remote Control at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

I only sorta understand what that diagram is showing as I am literally learning this as I go. I have never wired motors or anything before so sorry about everything.

 

[Bert_]

That is the hoist it is harbor freight. I have the 880lb version though and this is the 440lb.

880 lb. Electric Hoist with Remote Control

Amazing deals on this 880Lb Electric Hoist With Remote Control at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

I only sorta understand what that diagram is showing as I am literally learning this as I go. I have never wired motors or anything before so sorry about everything.

The top is the capacitor. The bottom is an upper travel limit switch.

Call me crazy but that diagram seems unnecessarily complicated. Seems like you could do the same thing with a single pole double throw switch. No reason to put the capacitor by the switch.

 

[jbfsr]

This looks closer.

 

[dogdog]

That is an interesting configuration.

....
This seems to fit the description from the drawn diagram.

AC motor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Permanent-split capacitor motor​

Another variation is the permanent-split capacitor (or PSC) motor.[19] Also known as a capacitor-run motor, this type of motor uses a non-polarized capacitor with a high voltage rating to generate an electrical phase shift between the run and start windings. PSC motors are the dominant type of split-phase motor in Europe and much of the world, but in North America, they are most frequently used in variable torque applications (like blowers, fans, and pumps) and other cases where variable speeds are desired.

A capacitor with a relatively low capacitance, and relatively high voltage rating, is connected in series with the start winding and remains in the circuit during the entire run cycle.[19] Like other split-phase motors, the main winding is used with a smaller start winding, and rotation is changed by reversing the connection between the main winding and the start circuit, or by having polarity of main winding switched while start winding is always connected to a capacitor. There are significant differences, however; the use of a speed sensitive centrifugal switch requires that other split-phase motors must operate at, or very close to, full speed. PSC motors may operate within a wide range of speeds, much lower than the motor's electrical speed. Also, for applications like automatic door openers that require the motor to reverse rotation often, the use of a mechanism requires that a motor must slow to a near stop before contact with the start winding is re-established. The 'permanent' connection to the capacitor in a PSC motor means that changing rotation is instantaneous.

 

[Bert_]

That is an interesting configuration.

....
This seems to fit the description from the drawn diagram.

AC motor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A lot of garage door openers use a similar type of motor. This kind of motor is pretty simple but I think intermittent duty only.

 

[haveissues]

I don't think it matters which winding goes where. You just need to figure out with an ohm meter which wire is common. Put one winding in series with the capacitor it turns one way, put the other winding in series with the capacitor it goes the other. if the switch works reverse of how you want it swap the wires.

 

[ycgoat]

Correct me if I am wrong but I am seeing 2 different types of capacitor usage in these diagrams, the simplest diagram shows the capacitor wired across the start contact which looks to me like it would be there for arc suppression when starting and stopping under a load. The more complicated diagram showed the capacitor between constant power and one leg of the motor feed, that I would expect to be a starting capacitor to give a little extra boost to one leg to get it spinning.

If it was me and I could not find documentation I would try to start it with out a capacitor, while watching the starter contact if visible. If motor starts and runs but has an arc across the contact when starting and stopping it, then I would put the capacitor across the contact for arc suppression. If the motor failed to start or turned only slowly I would use it to bump a winding to get the ball rolling. There are other potential ways of using capacitors to run a motor besides the 2 main diagrams.

If you read that and are going to try it, know that I too have turned new motors into globs of molten metal before.

 

[TRWham]

I believe it is wired as a PSC (permanent split capacitor) motor where the 2 coils switch roles based on direction by switching which coil sees the capacitors.

 

[dogdog]

I don't think it matters which winding goes where. You just need to figure out with an ohm meter which wire is common. Put one winding in series with the capacitor it turns one way, put the other winding in series with the capacitor it goes the other. if the switch works reverse of how you want it swap the wires.

That is easy with that motor right... no capacitor needed if you just want to identify the wires. and it doesn't matter which wire atm just needed to identify W1 W2 and the common... common wire goes to neutral... capacitor goes across the W1 W2 wire... the direction of the motor is arranged with that DPDT center off switch that dependent how the electricity is flow across the capacitor. just follow the diagram from jbfsr, I thought it was a traditional AC induction motor at first but it is not, hey you learn something new.

It only have two winding the winding resistance should be similar or the same, and a common wire (which is the other end of the W1 W2 coil connected to each other)

Label all three wires say 1 (ie blue) 2 (ie black) 3 (ie red) and the capacitor not connected. using that diagram as an example.

put a ohm on the lowest scale and

measure across 1 and 2 record the ohm reading, (should be the same 2,3 in this case)

measure across 1 and 3 and record the reading (should read the highest ohm when the two coils are in series.)

measure across 2 and 3 and record the reading. (should be the same as 1,2) and you have 2 (black) as the common connection between the two test, I'll say it is the common wire.


pretty sure at this point you will be able to figure out that 2 of the reading should be similar.

one of the reading will be the sum of the other two. These two will be your AC hot connection where the capacitor is connected across.... The other will be the AC common connection

At any given moment only 1 of the AC hot connection is needed to apply electricity across it, the other is unused in one direction, and vice versa is happened.

Maybe some one can word it better. but it does make sense.

 

[asterik216]

Sorry I have not responded I have been super busy with work and totally beat by the time I get home. I got it working though and everything seems good. My biggest issue was not changing how the couple of wires that were actually connected go. There was only like 3 or 4 already hooked up and stupid me was assuming it was correct. I really appreciate all the help everyone gave. I really need to come on this forum more often as it's just loaded with knowledge and useful stuff.

Thanks again for the help and I really appreciate it.

 

[haveissues]

At any given moment only 1 of the AC hot connection is needed to apply electricity across it, the other is unused in one direction, and vice versa is happened.

The motor will need power across both windings-one in series with the capacitor and the other wired direct. Flop which winding is in series with the capacitor and the motor will run reverse. I agree with everything else you said.

 

[dogdog]

The motor will need power across both windings-one in series with the capacitor and the other wired direct. Flop which winding is in series with the capacitor and the motor will run reverse. I agree with everything else you said.

It does... study that diagram posted... you'll see neutral is connected to the "Common" so by that default connection one end of the W1 coil and W2 coil will always have neutral. Bert have a simplified connection hand drawn earlier also.

so you are left with 1 and 3 (blue and red) and the diagram says the non-polarized capacitor is connected across these two permentally not switched even if it shows that is is being connected at the DPDT.. the way it is wired it is treated as permenant connection across W1 and W2 coil which only gets the hot wire..... which is the other non-common end of W1 (say 1 as an example) and W2 (say 3 as an example) ...

when you apply power to say 1 only the power goes directly through W1 then return to the neutral through the common... at the same time, because the non-polarized cap is connected across it... electricity also flow through the capacitor then to the W2 coil, because of the capacitor is in series with W2 , it will cause a phase lag on the current... hence the split phase... Not that I have any idea how magnetic flux or eddy current in motor cause it to rotate, heats up.. .but logic is how that works with these PSC motors.

vise versa happens when you apply power to W2 (connection point 3), current flows directly to W2, because of the non-polarized cap is connected across W1 and W2 on point 1 and 3... now the capacitor becomes in series with the W1.. and causing the current on the W1 to lag W2.....

well at least logically that is how it works, I do happen to have both the 440LB and 800LB HF hoist... for some weird reason.. some where for projects with the motor... worse case I can open them up to confirm...