Help with 2 post lift placement

[Jeeper89]

My concrete guy called and he is putting my floor in tomorrow. I didn't expect him to get to it so soon. I have a 40 x 60 shop with 2 large doors in the 40" gable end and a 12 x 14 door on the eve side toward the rear. Down the road I would like to add a two post lift inside that door. Basically that bay is 20' wide and 40' deep. I want the lift toward the door end of the bay, but currently I drive a 2011 Ram 3500 crew cab dually. 22 feet long I think. My question is how far from the door should I put some thicker pads in the floor. I'm thinking 6 foot X 3 foot pads to allow a little bit of fine tuning of placement when the time comes. The basic floor will be 4" thick and he tells me the PSI will be 4000-4500. The pads I am going to make 6" thick, doing the entire floor isn't an option. Thanks in advance

 

[Jeeper89]

Some random photos that my help you get a better picture

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[sreeb]

Since you don't know, make bigger pads that are 4.5". That should cover just about any lift. When I was picking a lift, all the ones I looked at wanted 4" or 4.25". None of them required more.

 

[Jeeper89]

There is a local guy that sells Titan lifts, so I had looked into those a little. The 11,000 lb lift requires 6" of 3,000 psi. Keep in mind the size of my truck, I had it on a 9,000 lift once and once it was about 4 feet high we decided that was high enough, it was sketchy at best.

https://titanlifts.com/2-post/titan-11-000-lb-2-post-adjustable-column-clear-floor-lift

 

[Darkknightgc]

Park the truck where you want the lift. The posts will be right about where your front and rear doors meet. If you know what lift you're getting, go to the manufacturers website and they'll have measurements for you. My Dannmar D10/CX is 10' 8" center to center on the posts, but it may be slightly wider than most. With your truck, though, I'd want a wider lift.

 

[lakeroadster]

Wow.. nice setup! Looks great.

Asymmetric or symmetric lift? See details below.

Pouring the concrete different thicknesses is a bad idea.. stick with one thickness. You want the bottom surface and the top surface of the slab as flat as possible, ideally +/- 1/4"

______________________________
Asymmetric Lift

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Symmetric Lift

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This arrangement is what I used, it works well.

Silverado Extended Cab shown in red on a SPOA10 Rotary asymmetric lift.

Lift is centered based on the overhead door centerline.

(My shop has 2 ft deep floor mounted cabinets across what would be the wall at the front of the vehicle)

 

[Darkknightgc]

On that Titan link, it says center to center is 11' 5".

 

[Jeeper89]

Thanks for all the feedback. I pulled the truck in the bay and place it about where I wanted it. Measured from the door to between the front and rear doors. 15 feet so I am going to center the 6 foot long pads at 16 feet. The width will be 13 foot to the outside and 9 feet to the insides. That allows do the lift to be in as far as 19feet and as close to the door as 13. At this point it’s all kind of a guess and a dream so I just have to roll with it.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

This is where I have my lift placed at, I have a f250 ext cab with the long bed so it's a long truck.
It's worked out ok..........not a very good drawing but the dimensions are all there

 

[mrobins297aaa]

by the way nice barn

 

[Jeeper89]

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I am going to center the pads at 15 feet in from the door. The pads will be 14' wide to the outside and 8' inside edge to inside edge. My fingers are crossed it all works out in the end. A lift may never happen but I can say I tried.

 

[Jeeper89]

by the way nice barn

Thank you, my wife and I with help from a few friends built it last summer.

 

[Jeeper89]

Well that didn't go as planned... Due to cold weather, rainy weather, and plastic under the slab things didn't set up they way the expected. They were out working on it until about 10 last night and back this morning with a brand new power trowel in an attempt to save it. the throttle cable on the trowel broke about 2 min in so its running on a zip tired throttle. I'm sick thinking about it...

 

[lakeroadster]

Well that didn't go as planned... Due to cold weather, rainy weather, and plastic under the slab things didn't set up they way the expected. They were out working on it until about 10 last night and back this morning with a brand new power trowel in an attempt to save it. the throttle cable on the trowel broke about 2 min in so its running on a zip tired throttle. I'm sick thinking about it...

What was the temperature when they poured?

Were you there when they poured the floor?

Sounds like they added to much water.... which they just love to do.... which can totally screw up the strength.

Going To Pour Concrete Slab, How Will I Know I Got The Strength I Wanted?

 

[Jeeper89]

Temp was in the low 50's during the day, down to low 40's overnight. Rained pretty much all day.
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[Jeeper89]

Well, live an learn I guess. My father-in-law happened to be there for most of the pour and when I saw him this weekend he asked why I didn't have wire put in... It was on the quote. I asked the concrete guy about it and he said he used fiber rather than wire because the trucks would have had to drive on the wire. I guess all I have to go by is his word. I don't really trust him or anyone I hire for that matter. Only time will tell if the floor will hold up. It's sad to see that people can't follow simple directions.
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[59 wagon man]

i have had so called professionals drop my pickup off a 2 post lift. just my .02 but a 4 post with that truck would def be more sturdier

 

[lakeroadster]

Well, live an learn I guess. My father-in-law happened to be there for most of the pour and when I saw him this weekend he asked why I didn't have wire put in... It was on the quote. I asked the concrete guy about it and he said he used fiber rather than wire because the trucks would have had to drive on the wire. I guess all I have to go by is his word. I don't really trust him or anyone I hire for that matter. Only time will tell if the floor will hold up. It's sad to see that people can't follow simple directions.

Concrete cracks..... and concrete shrinks.

Fiber is good for shrinkage cracking. Wire mesh will help keep the slab level when it cracks (like at control joints).

Who did the sub-grade compaction and how was it done? If they did a really good job of compaction and the building is such that it is positioned and graded such that water can't infiltrate the sub grade then you may be ok.

But with the heavy equipment such as your truck it sure would have been nice if the contractor would have followed through.

Lesson Learned: It always pays to be on the job site... Trust but Verify

• Did you have a written contract that specifies wire mesh?
  
• Speaking of control joints.. I don't see any? Did they cut control joints?
  
• Did they use a sealer? The slab needs to be hydrated or sealed.

 

[Jeeper89]

Due to being crazy busy at work I was unable to be on site for the pour. I had a written quote that itemized the cost to put wire in. He never mentioned switching to fiber to me. The compaction was done by the second largest excavator in our area. They do outstanding work. I told them I wanted it compacted with a large vibratory roller compactor and it was quoted that way. When I got home that night there was no compactor on site. When I asked about it they said it wasn't needed and the "ran it in" with the dozer due to the soil type I had. I would have been happy to pay the extra $300 just to be safe. They are cutting control joints this morning. I got no specific directions to do anything with the floor other than to not park drive on it for 10 days. The two items I hired out ended up being the biggest pain in the end, and that's the reason I don't hire people to do anything unless I have to. So now I'm stuck with a $7000 floor that who knows how long it will last. Nothing like seeing my dream shop killed by others not following simple directions.

 

[Astross89]

What lights do you have? Are you happy with them?

 

[Jeeper89]

They are the LED lights from Sam Club. so far I have been very happy with them for the price. The concrete guys were very glad I had them. For general lighting they are great, I need to add a fourth light to each row because there are shadows along the outer walls. They have the new revised ones on sale right now $185 for a 10 pack. I'd love to buy more but the budget is blown and I'm doing everything I can to get the doors on and the stone work on the front. Once the doors are in and the stone is on I will have about $55,000 into the building. 95% of it was built / done by my wife and I with some help from family and friends on truss setting day.

 

[Astross89]

Thanks. I just bought 20 of them for my 24x36 shop.

 

[Jeeper89]

Thanks. I just bought 20 of them for my 24x36 shop.

Better order some sunglasses to go with them... 15 in my 40x60 is pretty bright. I hope you like them.

 

[Jeeper89]

Called the concrete supplier after a lot of delays this morning they won't give me any information on what was sent. It's feeling like a cover up is in process.

 

[lakeroadster]

The compaction was done by the second largest excavator in our area. They do outstanding work. I told them I wanted it compacted with a large vibratory roller compactor and it was quoted that way. When I got home that night there was no compactor on site. When I asked about it they said it wasn't needed and the "ran it in" with the dozer due to the soil type I had. I would have been happy to pay the extra $300 just to be safe.

How did they run a dozer in a completed barn and get close enough to the walls to compact the entire surface?

What good is a quote... if they don't do what they quoted? Miserable.

They are cutting control joints this morning.

Control joints should be cut the day of the pour.. or the next morning at the latest.

The two items I hired out ended up being the biggest pain in the end, and that's the reason I don't hire people to do anything unless I have to. So now I'm stuck with a $7000 floor that who knows how long it will last. Nothing like seeing my dream shop killed by others not following simple directions.

Man.. that *****.

Maybe consider posting here the name of the contractor that didn't do the compaction per specification.. and the concrete guys that didn't follow the specifications.

That might help the next guy avoid them.

 

[sreeb]

All of the lifts I looked at required steel in the floor....

 

[lakeroadster]

All of the lifts I looked at required steel in the floor....

Other than Mohawk, which lift manufacturer specifies rebar or mesh?

I know Rotary doesn't specify rebar or mesh.

 

[930dreamer]

Sorry to hear about the concrete pour issues, did you already pay for it? My patio was poured on a 104 degree day, they worked it to much, I told them broom finish and its slick as snot.

 

[Jeeper89]

Sorry to hear about the concrete pour issues, did you already pay for it? My patio was poured on a 104 degree day, they worked it to much, I told them broom finish and its slick as snot.

Yes it’s paid for. The excavation work was done last spring before the barn was started. I’m not going to post names here, but if anyone is the the West Michigan area and would like further details I would be happy to share in a PM basis. I guess at this point I have to live with what I have.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

Other than Mohawk, which lift manufacturer specifies rebar or mesh?

I know Rotary doesn't specify rebar or mesh.

Bendpak doesn't

 

[sreeb]

Other than Mohawk, which lift manufacturer specifies rebar or mesh?

I know Rotary doesn't specify rebar or mesh.

The Titan he referenced specifies "reinforced concrete". I have never considered the fiber additive structural but I am far from an expert.

Just reread the manual for the one I am installing and was surprised to see that it doesn't specify steel. I remember surveying my garage floor with a metal detector and I did it for a reason. I was looking at some of the lower end lifts from smaller importers. This was months ago and I no longer have the data.

 

[lakeroadster]

Yes it’s paid for. The excavation work was done last spring before the barn was started.

So there was no subsequent sub-grade compaction performed after the building was erected, prior to pouring the slab? Like around the columns where the sub grade was disturbed?

 

[Jeeper89]

So there was no subsequent sub-grade compaction performed after the building was erected, prior to pouring the slab? Like around the columns where the sub grade was disturbed?

When I back filled the post holes I compacted by hand every few inches of fill. I also ran a hose around each post to settle the dirt in. My wife and I built the entire barn so it took us all of last summer. It sat through a lot of rain storms during construction. There was not a single post that needed to have any extra fill added, and there were no signs of settling at all. My excavator is the second largest excavator in West Michigan and they do a lot of commercial work. I went to school with the owners son and my Dad has known the owner for years so I trust what they say. They said the reason they didn't bring in a compactor is because I have perfect soil. Described as sandy loam he said it packs super tight with no issues. I parked my truck in the barn all winter and where my path in and out was there wes no signs of settling. I feel pretty good about the soil that the barn is built on, but I would have gladly paid the extra $300 for compaction just so say I exhausted all efforts. I also wanted wire in the concrete as extra insurance to help avoid cracks shifting down the road.

 

[Jeeper89]

Well to top it off his saw is having carb issues. So the floor sits half cut until a new carb shows up. I just can’t win.

 

[Jeeper89]

Who would I contact to have a core sample of the concrete done? I don't see any evidence if residential fiber in in the floor. The concrete guy has turned into a real Jack A$$ and treating me like I'm an idiot. Maybe I am but I am also the customer.

 

[Astross89]

I hope for the best. Good luck.

 

[Deezler]

Aww man this all really *****. Probably the worst part of being a garage journal member is living vicariously through these types of bad experiences on what is supposed to be a dream come true.

Also being a Michigan resident blessed with sandy loam soils, I think your excavator probably does know what he is talking about with regards to compaction. While I also would have preferred and paid extra for real compaction work, your slab probably isnt going anywhere.

Not including rebar/mesh when it was clearly specified is a breach of contract. If he really did include fiber, it's still not the same thing, long term. You should be able to see evidence of at least some stray fibers on top. They should provide you the ticket from the concrete plant. You deserve to know the PSI mix and the fiber inclusion or lack thereof.

Also, your contractor should hire someone else to come cut the control joints ASAP. If it cracks somewhere else before he finishes the job, you deserve a brand new slab.

 

[Jeeper89]

Aww man this all really *****. Probably the worst part of being a garage journal member is living vicariously through these types of bad experiences on what is supposed to be a dream come true.

Also being a Michigan resident blessed with sandy loam soils, I think your excavator probably does know what he is talking about with regards to compaction. While I also would have preferred and paid extra for real compaction work, your slab probably isnt going anywhere.

Not including rebar/mesh when it was clearly specified is a breach of contract. If he really did include fiber, it's still not the same thing, long term. You should be able to see evidence of at least some stray fibers on top. They should provide you the ticket from the concrete plant. You deserve to know the PSI mix and the fiber inclusion or lack thereof.

Also, your contractor should hire someone else to come cut the control joints ASAP. If it cracks somewhere else before he finishes the job, you deserve a brand new slab.

Yeah, its taken this entire project from one of pure excitement to total frustration. I don't even like to be out in the shop at the moment, it breaks my heart to so the lack of quality in the floor bring the entire building down. He must not be very proud of this job because every other project that he does he has pictures all over his facebook page. Not mine, not a single picture. Once this is all done, I will be giving him a 1 start review and letting people know to contact me if they want to see his 10 rated work.

 

[Jeeper89]

Well, I have started the process of finding a concrete testing lab. I have no clue how much something like this will cost, but I have to do something. The contractor is not returning calls, or messages. He is avoiding us and not providing the mix ticket that I have requested a copy of. So sort of testing the concrete to see if it has the fiber like he says it does I don't know what else to do.

 

[lakeroadster]

Here are a couple links for you:

Michigan Concrete Association

Construction Testing Services

Good luck, let us know what you find out.

Did you ever install gutters on your shop? This helps to ensure water won't get under the slab and degrade the sub base.

Sloping the ground around the building away from the shop is also a must.

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