Help with balancing 33” wheels

[NotLeftHanded]

I’ve been having a hell of a time chasing weights on my balancer which is a Hunter DSP 9000. Before I balance any wheel assembly, I calibrate the machine. I’m working on my personal set of wheels which are Weld 16.5x12 wheels on 33x12.50r16.5 Interco Trxus radial M/T’s. I am using the static balance mode and to help with balancing, I loosen, rotate the wheel, and retighten the wing nut until I get a lower reading on the machine. I add sticky weights where I have the machine setup for, and it’ll ask for more weights 90° out more less.

The only thing that is not genuine on the machine are the cones, which are eBay China cones. I’m at a loss at the moment. I’ve been told by local 4x4 shops that I wouldn’t feel vibrations being .75oz off because of the size of the wheel assembly, but that is up for debate.. Any tire tech guys that can chime in and educate me?

 

[CGarage]

Call Hunter Engineering and speak to one of the field service reps in your area and ask for advice. They have great service. I do not own the machine but I have all tires for my vehicles balanced using one.

 

[Xcursion88]

We do hubdredss of tires yearly

44 and up (and under) inches etc...

Couple things of note....

It's not uncommon for a balancer to need more weight 90 or more degrees off from first spot. Keep adding until you get zero.
Also...any yellow or red dots white dots on your tires?
Are they new?

Again ....that's a huge combo and don't be alarmed about more weight. Add the weight and spin again.

That all said....

I don't mean to hijack your thread but 16.5 rims in the aftermarket many times don't have much of a safety bead.

They relied on air pressure. Back in the day all 3/4 and 1 ton trucks got 16.5's but those were the factory 7" wide wheels and usually has a decent safety bead.
Even then they relied on a ton of pressure to keep the bead seated.
(What do you see today?) 17's, 18, 20's...

Anyways even if you had the world's greatest safety bead running a 12.5 tire on a 12" rim is asking for trouble.

You have such little side pressure runninh that 12 wide wheel on a 12 wide tire...running that combo it's dangerous. Doesn't take much air loss in your attempted set up to pop a bead.

Interco with whom I deal with would never ever advise you to run that wide of a wheel with that tire. Never!
The chart they show says a 10" max!!!!

That all said 16.5x12 wheels are massive.
The 33 swampers you are trying to balance have a lot of rubber knobs and thick as well.

If you want to hurt yourself that's one thing but other motorists.....not cool.

 

[BillK]

I loosen, rotate the wheel, and retighten the wing nut until I get a lower reading on the machine.

That tells me that your wheel is not being centered properly on the machine. You should be able to loosen the wheel and rotate it 1080 degrees and tighten it back up and get the same exact reading.

 

[ChevyEFI]

Is there a way to check runout on the cones, perhaps?

 

[NotLeftHanded]

Thanks for the tips everyone. I called a local Hunter field service rep but I can’t afford his asking price of almost $300 to come out and calibrate the machine (the same way I know how to) and mount a wheel to the machine to make sure it balances. Kinda steep in my opinion but I understand the prices.. In the Weld wheels world a lot of guys are running 14” wide wheels on the same width tires that I have… Interco does indeed have a size chart online but the safety of it is up for debate as their product services rep is a member in our Facebook group for Weld Truck Wheels.. He sees all of the guys that run the same wheel setup like mine or with even wider rims (14”-16” wide). I have aired down my Intercos to 10 psi in the past and didn’t pop a bead and hope that it never happens! I typically run my psi at 35..

I may ask a local machine shop to check the runout on my cones but I much rather buy either Coats or Hunter ones. My machine came with the eBay ones..

I understand that bigger wheels tend to ask for more weight, but I was also told to not chase weights or counterbalance wheel assemblies with sticky weights on different areas of the same plane..

 

[rlitman]

If the machine is calling for weights 90 degrees out from where you added them in static mode, you're doing something very wrong, and calibration isn't the answer.

Have you cleaned the wheel and machine hub from rust scale? Perhaps things aren't sitting flat. Are you supporting the wheel while tightening the nut? I find I need to with my Jeep rims (31" LT), but don't really need to with my passenger car tires.

 

[Half-fast eddie]

Thanks for the tips everyone. I called a local Hunter field service rep but I can’t afford his asking price of almost $300 to come out and calibrate the machine

If you have never had it calibrated, might be a good investment.

 

[Squankum]

Balance beads? Antifreeze?

 

[NotLeftHanded]

If the machine is calling for weights 90 degrees out from where you added them in static mode, you're doing something very wrong, and calibration isn't the answer.

Have you cleaned the wheel and machine hub from rust scale? Perhaps things aren't sitting flat. Are you supporting the wheel while tightening the nut? I find I need to with my Jeep rims (31" LT), but don't really need to with my passenger car tires.

Yes I have cleaned the threads on the spindle shaft and hub surface of the wheels before mounting them to the machine. I always de-burr and flatten any ridges or high spots on the hub bore opening of the wheels. I agree with you that I may be doing something wrong… maybe I over greased the shaft and it’s loosening a hair while spinning give me different results?

 

[rlitman]

The threads (and any grease on them) aren't your problem, but perhaps the wheel is loose?

I'd paint a mark onto the balancer hub and align that to something on the wheel to see if it shifts while spinning. My balancer is hand-spin so there just isn't enough torque to move things (though the brake might), but your motor probably can. If the shaft turns a little against the heavy wheel, that's sure to mess things up.

My usual issue balancing larger wheels is getting them spinning true. Do you have a dial indicator on an arm where you can see that the wheel isn't wobbling?

 

[Xcursion88]

You want to "yeah but" this to death.


I assume you have another automobile aside from this very UNSAFE combo you're trying to run with this balancing issue.


Take a tire off your other car...or friend's car ... take weights off ......dismount....

Mount, spin balance and what happens?

Does it balance?


As far as your other claims.....

Weld made those 12" and even 14" wide wheels with the huge tire in mind not a 33x12.50

Again years ago when the heavier trucks all ran 16.5's the aftermarket only had a 9.75" wide wheel to accommodate the 12.50" wide tires.
Interco with some of their WIDE widths needed an extra wide wheel to prevent too much ballooning of the center section. Not a 12.5" wide tire on a 12" wheel.
14.5" wide onward...15, 15.5, 18.5 all needed a wider wheel than stock and even the aftermarket 9.75 wheel.

Perhaps you're trying to build a mall crawler? Or dropping to 10 psi on a fire road.?. The trails I run would pop a bead in about 15 feet if running that 16.5 with very little safety bead on the wheel and a tire only measuring one half inch wider that the rim.
Moreover you've got zero protection of the rim from the sidewall from the nasty rocks that like to bite running that combo.

10" wide wheel is fine on a 12.50 (i prefer and recommend an 8") but a 10" on a 12.50 tire can be worked with.

A 10" wide wheel on a 10.50 tire is asking for trouble. 8" is a must there.
Everyone has those moments and say well I did this and nothing happened.

Back to your balancing issue...

You spin the tire and get a number....add weight....then you spin it again and got a .75 number?

On a combo as heavy and big as yours that's not an issue whatsoever.
Did you add the .75 and spin it again?

If you have to keep adding after theee times you have a problem. Machine, sonething inside the tire...badly out of round...distorted wheel....

Lastly these machines only go to 1/4 of an ounce....
In other words it might call for 1.5 ounces. Then spin again and it asks you for .25 ounce ir .5 ounce.
The machine can't go down to .01 of an ounce.

 

[NotLeftHanded]

You want to "yeah but" this to death.


I assume you have another automobile aside from this very UNSAFE combo you're trying to run with this balancing issue.


Take a tire off your other car...or friend's car ... take weights off ......dismount....

Mount, spin balance and what happens?

Does it balance?


As far as your other claims.....

Weld made those 12" and even 14" wide wheels with the huge tire in mind not a 33x12.50

Again years ago when the heavier trucks all ran 16.5's the aftermarket only had a 9.75" wide wheel to accommodate the 12.50" wide tires.
Interco with some of their WIDE widths needed an extra wide wheel to prevent too much ballooning of the center section. Not a 12.5" wide tire on a 12" wheel.
14.5" wide onward...15, 15.5, 18.5 all needed a wider wheel than stock and even the aftermarket 9.75 wheel.

Perhaps you're trying to build a mall crawler? Or dropping to 10 psi on a fire road.?. The trails I run would pop a bead in about 15 feet if running that 16.5 with very little safety bead on the wheel and a tire only measuring one half inch wider that the rim.
Moreover you've got zero protection of the rim from the sidewall from the nasty rocks that like to bite running that combo.

10" wide wheel is fine on a 12.50 (i prefer and recommend an 8") but a 10" on a 12.50 tire can be worked with.

A 10" wide wheel on a 10.50 tire is asking for trouble. 8" is a must there.
Everyone has those moments and say well I did this and nothing happened.

Back to your balancing issue...

You spin the tire and get a number....add weight....then you spin it again and got a .75 number?

On a combo as heavy and big as yours that's not an issue whatsoever.
Did you add the .75 and spin it again?

If you have to keep adding after theee times you have a problem. Machine, sonething inside the tire...badly out of round...distorted wheel....

Lastly these machines only go to 1/4 of an ounce....
In other words it might call for 1.5 ounces. Then spin again and it asks you for .25 ounce ir .5 ounce.
The machine can't go down to .01 of an ounce.

I didn’t add .75 oz after I spun the wheel on the balancer. So with no weights it wanted 8.25oz, I added that and spun it again to verify 0.00 oz but it wanted .75 oz’s out. I did not add the .75 oz because I have been told to not counterbalance one the same plane

 

[engineer2]

What results do you get using dynamic balance mode?
Try a normal passenger car wheel in dynamic mode. If it resolves to zero with weights in 2 spots (inner & outer), your balancer is working OK. If it chases weights on any kind of wheel, then the machine has a problem.

It is possible the span calibration is made for passenger car tires and not for monster tires. For example a 3 oz. calibration weight will set the range for a normal sized wheel, but may be off a bit for a much wider rim with a huge tire.

 

[Xcursion88]

I didn’t add .75 oz after I spun the wheel on the balancer. So with no weights it wanted 8.25oz, I added that and spun it again to verify 0.00 oz but it wanted .75 oz’s out. I did not add the .75 oz because I have been told to not counterbalance one the same plane

Ok....LOL...

Not laughing at you....just that you needed a half a pound plus....


Put the .75 on and spin again.

Seriously.....You're worried about it asking for .75 after putting a half pound on....

Your machine is working fine.

I've owned countess swampers and they've got massive lugs.....

Again...your machine asking for another. 75 is absolutely nothing to be alarmed about...

Put the .75 on and spin again.
Don't be surprised if it asks for a .25 or another .5


You're trying to balance a different animal there.

If you add the .75...

Then it asks for another 1.5...then another .5 ...then abother .75

That is chasing weights.

Asking for more weight once or twice it's absolutely positively normal....especially...ESPECIALLY trying to balance that monster combo you're doing

We have a machine that is insanely accurate. On a normal car tire i can spin it and may it asks for 1.50 weight.
Spin again and it asks for .50 and it could ask for it anywhere.
Spin a third and it asks for .25.
If the machine isn't zeroing out...let's say it still sees .16 weight needed. There isn't a .16 weight option. It can only ask for .25 or zero it out.
The above example is on sonething perhaps finicky...it happens..
...but asking for more weight is absolutely positively satisfactory....provided it zero's out.
Again if the 2nd spin calls for .75...then a third asks for 1.00.. then a fourth asks for .5
That tire will never balance and something is definitely wrong.
Asking for .75 additional after you've installed a half pound....

Good lord that's perfectly satisfactory

I still suggest returning the tires and get a proper width tire for those wheels.
A 14.5 at a minimum. Think of the other motorists and less about how cool you want to look.

 

[NotLeftHanded]

Again...your machine asking for another. 75 is absolutely nothing to be alarmed about...

Put the .75 on and spin again.
Don't be surprised if it asks for a .25 or another .5

Right, so I’m not alarmed at all as I know mud tires tend to do this. I just wanted to know with my machine being older if I was having issues outside of just the wheel assembly..

Are you telling me that it’s ok to add .75oz on the same plane and to counterbalance?

 

[NotLeftHanded]

What results do you get using dynamic balance mode?
Try a normal passenger car wheel in dynamic mode. If it resolves to zero with weights in 2 spots (inner & outer), your balancer is working OK. If it chases weights on any kind of wheel, then the machine has a problem.

It is possible the span calibration is made for passenger car tires and not for monster tires. For example a 3 oz. calibration weight will set the range for a normal sized wheel, but may be off a bit for a much wider rim with a huge tire.

The specs on my balancer says that it can spin up to a maximum of a 41” inch tire. The wheel weight limit is 150lbs on the balancer as well

 

[engineer2]

Looks like you are well within specs.

 

[kbeefy]

I would add the .75 and spin again. With swampers I'm happy to get down to 1 oz.

I've been having a bit of a similar problem with my GSP9700.

Car tires I usually zero in one spin. Truck tires (265/75r16 to 35x12.5r20) I wind up chasing weights.
I finally got a calibration weight and performed the calibration thinking that was a likely issue, I never had a cal weight before now.
The last one I did wanted 4.5 & 2oz, Spun then it wanted 2 and 1 about 90 degrees from the original.
I added that and respun, then it wanted about 1.5 and .75 almost 180 from the last weight. I stopped at that point.

I suspect I have the wrong or a faulty cone, this problem is always with my largest cone.
I also can 'recenter' the wheel and get different weight readings and different amount of runnout, so theres definitely something going on there.

 

[NotLeftHanded]

I would add the .75 and spin again. With swampers I'm happy to get down to 1 oz.

I've been having a bit of a similar problem with my GSP9700.

Car tires I usually zero in one spin. Truck tires (265/75r16 to 35x12.5r20) I wind up chasing weights.
I finally got a calibration weight and performed the calibration thinking that was a likely issue, I never had a cal weight before now.
The last one I did wanted 4.5 & 2oz, Spun then it wanted 2 and 1 about 90 degrees from the original.
I added that and respun, then it wanted about 1.5 and .75 almost 180 from the last weight. I stopped at that point.

I suspect I have the wrong or a faulty cone, this problem is always with my largest cone.
I also can 'recenter' the wheel and get different weight readings and different amount of runnout, so theres definitely something going on there.

I think my cones are the culprit too. Are your cones Hunter brand or off brands?

 

[kbeefy]

I think my cones are the culprit too. Are your cones Hunter brand or off brands?

I'm not sure. The one I have issues with is slightly differently shaped than the others. The only marking I can find on it is '57' and 'A'.

 

[39CAMC]

Do you have to use static mode? Dynamic in 2 planes would likely call for a lot less weight. It would be tough to get 8.25oz without going a long way around the wheel, which makes it more likely to need adjustment.

DaveW

 

[NotLeftHanded]

Do you have to use static mode? Dynamic in 2 planes would likely call for a lot less weight. It would be tough to get 8.25oz without going a long way around the wheel, which makes it more likely to need adjustment.

DaveW

The first time I spun the wheel it was under the dynamic setting for sticky weights. The balancer wanted 8.00 oz on both planes. I switched to static mode and it called for only 8.25 oz on a single plane behind the spokes. So then I stopped and called a local 4x4 shop and asked them about my situation and they told me that anything 33” and up, they do static mode only. They said that they never have any vibration or shimmy issues on customer vehicles. My truck won’t go over 100 mph so I’m not worried about any high speed vibrations

 

[39CAMC]

Static is a half assed mode of balance that a lot of shops use to save weight or time. The flip side is what you mentioned, this is a 33" truck tire and it won't be going 100mph so static is probably fine.

Did you mount them yourself? If yes, can you dismount and rotate the tire on the wheel 180deg?

That is a lot of weight IMO, even for a truck tire. I also don't like the fact that rotating it on the balancer changes the numbers. THe wheel is not lug centric is it? The holes aren't always in the center on those.....

When I get something that asks for more weight 90 degrees off, I usually remove the weight from that plane and respin so it is in one place. That would be expensive at 8oz at a time.

If you are getting repeatable readings, 8oz is not the end of the world nor is adding more weight 90deg off. Like mentioned, they are different beasts.

DaveW

 

[NotLeftHanded]

Static is a half assed mode of balance that a lot of shops use to save weight or time. The flip side is what you mentioned, this is a 33" truck tire and it won't be going 100mph so static is probably fine.

Did you mount them yourself? If yes, can you dismount and rotate the tire on the wheel 180deg?

That is a lot of weight IMO, even for a truck tire. I also don't like the fact that rotating it on the balancer changes the numbers. THe wheel is not lug centric is it? The holes aren't always in the center on those.....

When I get something that asks for more weight 90 degrees off, I usually remove the weight from that plane and respin so it is in one place. That would be expensive at 8oz at a time.

If you are getting repeatable readings, 8oz is not the end of the world nor is adding more weight 90deg off. Like mentioned, they are different beasts.

DaveW

Yes I mount them on my tire machine at home. I have a Mayflower 980 tire changer that I use. So are you saying that it’s ok to counterbalance the wheel on the same plane under station mode? I’ve always been told that counter balancing is a no-no on the same plane of the rim. Thanks Dave

 

[39CAMC]

I would reclock them on the wheel and see if I could get that total weight down if you haven't already.

Does it offer split weight as an option on the balancer? It might disable that on static mode.

But yes, if the tire is really calling for 8 or 16 oz of weight, you are going to struggle to get that into a "short" enough area of the total circumference for it not to ask for a little more 60-90 degrees off.

I would define "counterbalance" where it asks for more 180 (or 160 or 200) degrees from the original and the user slaps more weight on in the new area rather than removing some in the original.

SInce this is your personal vehicle, you have some freedom that I don't with a customer car in that you can test if the .75 oz really makes a difference or not. And if you end up with weight in more than one place on the same plane, you know exactly what led to that.

DaveW

 

[NotLeftHanded]

I would reclock them on the wheel and see if I could get that total weight down if you haven't already.

Does it offer split weight as an option on the balancer? It might disable that on static mode.

But yes, if the tire is really calling for 8 or 16 oz of weight, you are going to struggle to get that into a "short" enough area of the total circumference for it not to ask for a little more 60-90 degrees off.

I would define "counterbalance" where it asks for more 180 (or 160 or 200) degrees from the original and the user slaps more weight on in the new area rather than removing some in the original.

SInce this is your personal vehicle, you have some freedom that I don't with a customer car in that you can test if the .75 oz really makes a difference or not. And if you end up with weight in more than one place on the same plane, you know exactly what led to that.

DaveW

So if it’s asking for weight 180° from the original spot, that would be a counterbalance but anything around 90° should be fine? Just want to make sure I understand that correctly before I clock the wheel and try to balance them again

 

[39CAMC]

So if it’s asking for weight 180° from the original spot, that would be a counterbalance but anything around 90° should be fine? Just want to make sure I understand that correctly before I clock the wheel and try to balance them again

Yes, at least in my mind. When it's 180deg off, you can just remove the amount of weight it is asking you to add from the original stack and it is the same thing as adding it, but you use less weight and fundamentally more correct.

If it is less than 90, try adding it next to the existing stack and see if it likes it.

But, with the size of tires and the amount of weight, I would not lose sleep over having to add a little bit (less than 1oz) 90 degrees from the original stack.

Two things to remember here, *technically* no matter how you get there, an assembly that spins in balance is in balance even if there are weights all over it. It is not technically correct and could add to issues down the road if small weights fall off, etc, but zero is zero. Note, if loosening it on the balancer and moving it on the shaft results in different numbers, you are not at zero.

Second thing: These big boys are most likely going to roll fine at +- 1oz

DaveW

 

[NotLeftHanded]

Yes, at least in my mind. When it's 180deg off, you can just remove the amount of weight it is asking you to add from the original stack and it is the same thing as adding it, but you use less weight and fundamentally more correct.

If it is less than 90, try adding it next to the existing stack and see if it likes it.

But, with the size of tires and the amount of weight, I would not lose sleep over having to add a little bit (less than 1oz) 90 degrees from the original stack.

Two things to remember here, *technically* no matter how you get there, an assembly that spins in balance is in balance even if there are weights all over it. It is not technically correct and could add to issues down the road if small weights fall off, etc, but zero is zero. Note, if loosening it on the balancer and moving it on the shaft results in different numbers, you are not at zero.

Second thing: These big boys are most likely going to roll fine at +- 1oz

DaveW

Thanks for the sound help buddy. Glad I’m on this forum

 

[Xcursion88]

Right, so I’m not alarmed at all as I know mud tires tend to do this. I just wanted to know with my machine being older if I was having issues outside of just the wheel assembly..

Are you telling me that it’s ok to add .75oz on the same plane and to counterbalance?

Yes. If it's asking you for another .75
No matter where...add it.

Spin again. As I said it might ask you for another .25 or another .5

Don't be alarmed if you get to zero.

As I said if it asks for .75 and you add that...then asks for something the same or even more...then asks for something more or the same again.... then something is wrong and you'll never get it balanced

 

[NotLeftHanded]

Yes. If it's asking you for another .75
No matter where...add it.

Spin again. As I said it might ask you for another .25 or another .5

Don't be alarmed if you get to zero.

As I said if it asks for .75 and you add that...then asks for something the same or even more...then asks for something more or the same again.... then something is wrong and you'll never get it balanced

Thanks man

 

[kbeefy]

I just remembered having similar issues with big swampers in the past, tires likely way to big for our balancer at the time. We even had the balancer on a platform so the larger tires would fit.

We would start by finding the heavy spot of the tire by hand (gravity) and adding enough weight opposite to counter the heavy spot.
When we couldn't determine the heavy spot anymore we would spin it and get normal numbers.

Food for thought....

 

[NotLeftHanded]

I just remembered having similar issues with big swampers in the past, tires likely way to big for our balancer at the time. We even had the balancer on a platform so the larger tires would fit.

We would start by finding the heavy spot of the tire by hand (gravity) and adding enough weight opposite to counter the heavy spot.
When we couldn't determine the heavy spot anymore we would spin it and get normal numbers.

Food for thought....

Thank you for the advice! I’ll see if I can find a heavy spot on the tire and go from there

 

[kbeefy]

So, to confirm my balancer works I did some passenger tires today. 275/35r18 on 18x9.5 rims.



Zero after one spin.

I put one of my 35's back on, it still wanted 6 more ounces on top of the 14 that were already there and at different angles. I pulled everything off and started over. Best I could get on the initial spin was 4 & 13 oz.
I decided to switch to static. Put 8oz on and respun, it still wanted 2 oz but almost the exact same spot. Added the 2 and it came down to .25. Close enough.



If I switch to dynamic it wants a couple more ounces in a couple different places.
I did one more tire and it came out to zero (static) after 2 spins.

 

[NotLeftHanded]

So, to confirm my balancer works I did some passenger tires today. 275/35r18 on 18x9.5 rims.



Zero after one spin.

I put one of my 35's back on, it still wanted 6 more ounces on top of the 14 that were already there and at different angles. I pulled everything off and started over. Best I could get on the initial spin was 4 & 13 oz.
I decided to switch to static. Put 8oz on and respun, it still wanted 2 oz but almost the exact same spot. Added the 2 and it came down to .25. Close enough.



If I switch to dynamic it wants a couple more ounces in a couple different places.
I did one more tire and it came out to zero (static) after 2 spins.

Nice field test my man! This is why everyone tells me to static balance anything over 33”

 

[redwrench60]

Ahhh Super Swampers. **** Hooks as we called em.

I always thought the roaring and vibration of TSL Boggers were just daily affirmations that you did the right thing.

 

[NotLeftHanded]

Ahhh Super Swampers. **** Hooks as we called em.

I always thought the roaring and vibration of TSL Boggers were just daily affirmations that you did the right thing.

Mine are radial M/T’s. A little more forgiving than Swampers thank God

 

[kbeefy]

Ahhh Super Swampers. **** Hooks as we called em.

I always thought the roaring and vibration of TSL Boggers were just daily affirmations that you did the right thing.

We called boggers 'Breakers'. We often ran them unbalanced.

 

[redwrench60]

We called boggers 'Breakers'. We often ran them unbalanced.

Yeah I’d get em all good and balanced at work then on the way home they’d become a different tire lol! I eventually gave up and just took it as an accepted part of having what amounts to a DOT approved tractor tire. I guess they “broke” my spirit

 

[xjfish]

Balance beads? Antifreeze?

I've personally never used beads/bags but I know a guy who swears by them for 33"+ tires. I've driven his truck...they work.