Help with dead outlets

[jimy]

So we are getting our house sided and are removing the siding ourselves. I was surprised to find several wire nutted wires hidden behind the old siding just above our exterior basement door. There is also a box inside that door that has always had 3 wire nutted wires in it. I don’t really need a light there but thought it best to get it working

Well I thought I had it figured out but apparently not. I hooked up a switch and all was fine until I flipped the switch. It made almost a buzzing sound from another switch above it. And now some lighting and receptacles aren’t working.

How should I proceed to find the issues? I did replace the switch that seemed to buzz.

Thanks,

Jim

 

[The Cobbler]

sounds like you've created a short and blown a breaker .put the wiring back to the way it was , re set the breaker and look at the wiring again. maybe some pictures would help to figure out what you need to do

 

[PCustoms]

sounds like you've created a short and blown a breaker .put the wiring back to the way it was , re set the breaker and look at the wiring again. maybe some pictures would help to figure out what you need to do

Guessing he either got into a 3 way/switch loop or a MWBC.

 

[jimy]

I hadn’t heard of MWBC before but one of the wires I connected was of unknown origin. It’s been a long week and I was being dumb. If I connected something from the other phase would that double the voltage?

Thanks for the help

Jim

 

[PCustoms]

I hadn’t heard of MWBC before but one of the wires I connected was of unknown origin. It’s been a long week and I was being dumb. If I connected something from the other phase would that double the voltage?

Thanks for the help

Jim

Depends.

Could feed 240v to a device, could dead short.

Could also dead short a switch loop.

Do you have a tripped breaker? If not, you've got bigger issues. Hope you remember how to undo whatever you did.

Pictures are your friend when working on mystery circuits!

 

[jimy]

I have already undid the wires I connected. It is back to what it was before I messed with it. The three wires each have a wire nut and are not in use.

I did not trip a breaker. However this house had quite a few GFCI outlets I imagine my next step is to chase off of these down and hopefully find one or more that tripped. I’m sure I’ll be moving a lot of furniture for that.

If that doesn’t take care of it, what might I ultimately find? Wires burned apart? Failed connection? Some sort of breaker failure?

Thanks for the help so far!

 

[PCustoms]

If that doesn’t take care of it, what might I ultimately find? Wires burned apart? Failed connection? Some sort of breaker failure?

That would be my guess. You're bordering on it might be better to call a pro at this point.

I'm assuming the "buzz" you heard was a dead short. Not sure why it didn't trip breaker, could be lots of things. Most not that fantastic.

 

[jimy]

Thanks to all for the help. Turns out a breaker DID flip, but it didn’t look flipped at all. I reset it and all is good now. Well, my Verizon internet isn’t working - I will have to give them a ring AFTER I put all my electrical tools away. Perhaps the Verizon box was zapped. Or maybe just a coincidence.

 

[PCustoms]

Turns out a breaker DID flip, but it didn’t look flipped at all.

Alright, that's good, you shorted something and your breaker worked correctly.

If you want help to "fix" whatever the wires were there for post some pics.

If your Verizon box is toast, my money is on you had MWBC and you just hit a few outlets with 240v. Post a pic of your panel

 

[Zeke]

Now you know why your electronics should be plugged into a power strip with protection.

 

[jimy]

Verizon box turned out to be fine. I had rebooted it and my router multiple times yesterday with no go. This afternoon a reboot took care if it. Maybe Verizon was having issues yesterday. I know I sure was! Thanks again for the help.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Now you know why your electronics should be plugged into a power strip with protection.

if he sent 240v to the electronics, a power strip with "protection" wont protect the equipment.

 

[PCustoms]

if he sent 240v to the electronics, a power strip with "protection" wont protect the equipment.

I remember years ago I was removing a partition in an office. The wall had a 3 way connection in a junction box. Me being smart, I decided we didn't need an electrician, and I would work hot. As soon as I pulled the neutral apart I heard a POP and the UPS systems made a single loud BEEP and failed.

Thankfully no one put 2 and 2 together. It was probably 20 years later I learned about MWBC.

 

[Zeke]

if he sent 240v to the electronics, a power strip with "protection" wont protect the equipment.

Good point. Maybe the diodes would since one wire is supposed to be hot and the other not. So, just to know, what is the threshold of a typical powerstrip? I want one that has a 15 amp breaker and surge protection + GFCI.

 

[PCustoms]

Good point. Maybe the diodes would since one wire is supposed to be hot and the other not. So, just to know, what is the threshold of a typical powerstrip? I want one that has a 15 amp breaker and surge protection + GFCI.

Threshold for what?

It's no different then if you somehow run 240 through your extension cord, it's not going to trip anything or melt.

 

[Zeke]

Threshold for surges. Relax.

 

[PCustoms]

Threshold for surges. Relax.

Google

 

[Zeke]

I tried to work back to that ^^^ image to find the source. No love. I'd like to understand "clamping."

 

[PCustoms]

I tried to work back to that ^^^ image to find the source. No love. I'd like to understand "clamping."

Effectively stops any voltage above that threshold.

I forget what I searched, eventually I stumbled into that spec. There was a ton of info (some obviously wrong) but that was the one reference to a spec I saw. I have not looked at the back of a power strip yet.

 

[PCustoms]

Lookup UL 1449, tons of info

 

[Norcal]

Thanks to all for the help. Turns out a breaker DID flip, but it didn’t look flipped at all. I reset it and all is good now. Well, my Verizon internet isn’t working - I will have to give them a ring AFTER I put all my electrical tools away. Perhaps the Verizon box was zapped. Or maybe just a coincidence.

GE panel? They have a screwy design that does not make a tripped breaker apparent.

 

[sparky 1971]

GE panel? They have a screwy design that does not make a tripped breaker apparent.

I've missed my share of tripped Siemens breakers. The little buggers barely move sometimes. More than once I've pulled the cover off a panel and run through the breakers with a meter only to find a dead breaker that was actually tripped.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Good point. Maybe the diodes would since one wire is supposed to be hot and the other not. So, just to know, what is the threshold of a typical powerstrip? I want one that has a 15 amp breaker and surge protection + GFCI.

The clamping voltage on most power strips ive seen is in the 400v range so… i doubt youll find one that is lower than 240v. Also neither a breaker nor a GFCI on a power strip will protect against overvoltage. What you need is an AVR.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Lookup UL 1449, tons of info

Good find. Thanks

Doubt theres a power strip on the face of the planet that has a VPR below 240v but im all ears if there is….

 

[Zeke]

What is an AVR? Google no help.

 

[PCustoms]

What is an AVR? Google no help.

Seriously?

What Is An Avr

For those who think it's easier to annoy you than to Google 'What is an avr' themselves.

letmegooglethat.com

Starting to think you aren't even trying.

 

[FredWanaker]

back to the original. You don't want a live circuit in the wall just left with wire nuts. Still need to figure out what it is, and where it goes, then repair or disable it in an accepted manner. Labeling it for future events is not a bad idea either. In our house, built in 1979, the outside power and light circuit at the back of the house are GCFI protected also. However, as common at that time as I am told by my electrician, the only GCFI in the house originally was in the master bathroom. All the bathroom circuits, and the outside rear wiring go thru it.

 

[PCustoms]

back to the original. You don't want a live circuit in the wall just left with wire nuts.

Excellent point...if it is a piece of abandoned wire it can be behind the wall (I cap and label) otherwise it needs to end in an accessable junction box.

 

[Zeke]

Seriously?

What Is An Avr

For those who think it's easier to annoy you than to Google 'What is an avr' themselves.

letmegooglethat.com

Starting to think you aren't even trying.

And this has to do with a GFCI how? I asked, or stated, that it would be nice to have a fused power strip with a GFCI in a home use grade. What I see is all kinds of power strips with J-11 jacks, HDMI jacks, USB jacks, but if you want a GFCI say like in an old garage you have to buy a separate corded GFCI device.

Now if you want to start talking micro electronic circuitry with me, all you're gonna get is a blank stare.

 

[PCustoms]

@Zeke

No clue what your looking for. You asked a question "What is an AVR? Google no help." And I provided the answer. How was anyone supposed to know from your grammatically incorrect statements what you are trying to tie together. And now you throw GFCI in the mix?

I'd suggest googling GFCI surge protector or GFCI outlet strip. Or just go to circuit city and buy a monster branded device, everyone knows they are the best.

I'm done, I've derailed this thread enough.

 

[Zeke]

Just relax. I saw the Google AVR hits and it didn't tell me anything about why @wyliesdiesels said, "What you need is an AVR."

Have an nice rest of the holiday.

 

[Zeke]

I asked, or stated, that it would be nice to have a fused power strip with a GFCI in a home use grade. What I see is all kinds of power strips with J-11 jacks, HDMI jacks, USB jacks, but if you want a GFCI say like in an old garage you have to buy a separate corded GFCI device.

@Zeke

No clue what your looking for.

Aside from the use of perfect past tense verb using the possessive 'your' instead of "you are" or "you're," the bolded type states exactly what I said I was looking for. If you don't have a clue then why suggest Circuit City?

Oh, I got the reference, no worries.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What is an AVR? Google no help.

an AVR is an automatic voltage regulator. i mentioned it because you wanted a power strip that had protection from overvoltage such as 240v on a 120v circuit. you wont find such a beast because the clamping voltage as previously mentioned is higher than that

so you need an AVR which is basically an auto transformer. I use these at my house in several locations and they work well

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00009RA60/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Just relax. I saw the Google AVR hits and it didn't tell me anything about why @wyliesdiesels said, "What you need is an AVR."

Have an nice rest of the holiday.

i answered this above.... hope that helps lessen the confusion

 

[kaffine]

Depends on what protection the surge protector offers. If it clamps at 330V and does L-N then it should start clamping the voltage if 240 is connected to it. Peak to Peak which the L-N protection would see would be 340V. Hopefully it trips the breaker before anything burns up. Now if only offers L-G and or N-G then it won't help. This assume US 240V split phase. 120V would be a peak of 170 and a negative peak of -170 so the difference the L-N protection would see would be 340V. It is really close to the limit so if your voltage is a bit lower or there is a bit of drop on the wire it may not start clamping or may not be able to draw enough current to trip the breaker.

However how many of your electronics are 120V only? Most electronics are universal voltage anymore and accept 100-240V. Not all there are still some out there that are single voltage but it is fewer and fewer.