hello all i'm in the market for a dial bore gauge and micrometers. dial bore gauge in the 1.4 to 6 in. range in .0001 increments mitutoyo has one that's close but pricey around $400.00 I found a set by shars for about $200.00 but have never heard of them. anyone know anything about shars or used them. and a good set of vernier micrometers in .0001 scale. any help would be appreciated. or any other brands worth looking at. thanks
help with dial bore gauge and micrometers
- Thread starter dey59
- Start date
Wamsutta
Well-known member
Go to an online machinist supply like McMastercarr or MSC Direct and check out their stock. Obviously, Starrett and Mitutoyo are the two most popular.
txvwnut
Well-known member
The biggest thing with fine measuring devices is to have a good set of standards to check them against when setting up to use them. I've got two sets of cheap import bore gauges and they've been pretty good to me. I've got two sets of mics, one set is Central brand and the other is Starrett. The Centrals I got from a pawn shop in the eighties and the Starretts I got off eBay. The bore gauges I got from Enco about 25 years ago.
Shars has been around for a while and I have bought from them as well as MSC and there's also Travers.
After I realized my Mits digital caliper would gain measurement the wider it opened, what I mean is you zero it with a 1" standard and then check it at 2" with a standard it would read more than 2", I decided to stay away from anything digital.
Shars has been around for a while and I have bought from them as well as MSC and there's also Travers.
After I realized my Mits digital caliper would gain measurement the wider it opened, what I mean is you zero it with a 1" standard and then check it at 2" with a standard it would read more than 2", I decided to stay away from anything digital.
You can usually find decent deals on Fowler stuff. It's by no means the best but it's good enough if you're only looking to stay close to accurate down to the thousandths. Try MSC direct when they have a sale going on. Also where did you find that bore gauge set for 4 bills, I'll buy it now!! If it is truly a Mit and that range that's a smoking deal.
thanks .I haven't tried travers and I don't want anything digital although I have an igaging digital caliper that is really great i'll get the gauge blocks and probably a set up stand the dial bore gauge at .0001 is really hard to set up with a micrometer , not that it can't be done but much easier and more accurate with a set up stand. I just got off amazon they had a fowler 1.4 to 6 in. at .0001 for $254.00 and change 3 5 star ratings anybody have any time with a fowler. thank you
Those fowler iits can be had for under a buck fifty, you just need to find a sale. I've found the fowler to feel a little notchy. But they are as accurate as possible when used properly. The key here is having a good set of micrometers. I'm assuming you're wanting this for checking bores right? So once you have your skirt measurement and then you've zeroed your bore gauge it's not like you're making multiple sweeps of the gauge. Or visa versa for spot checking a bore.
Both Starrett and Mitutoyo have a cult following for a reason. I've done many jig grinding projects within .0001" without a bore gauge. I have gone the Starrett route with telescopic gauges and micrometres. I think, unless you're producing to this level a dozen times a day, a cheaper quality would be a better investment.
Now, a lot of my better equipment I purchased new.
The better 3 point bore gauge (for quicker checking) you need reference bores.
In the past 10 years, I've been picking up dozens of things, at quarter the price well machine shops fold. Watch your auctions that have QC and CMM rooms.
What are you grinding that you need this type of accuracy?
Now, a lot of my better equipment I purchased new.
The better 3 point bore gauge (for quicker checking) you need reference bores.
In the past 10 years, I've been picking up dozens of things, at quarter the price well machine shops fold. Watch your auctions that have QC and CMM rooms.
What are you grinding that you need this type of accuracy?
thanks lxcam i'll check msc. mainly for bore and teaching grandson getting a motor ready for his first truck and want him to learn what it take to put it together. matt matt I've seen the reference bore but will probably just be for bore and bearings and use specs to set up gauge with a set up stand mostly for teaching grandson how to use tools other than a hammer and wrench. probably a little over kill but if we have to take it in for machine work I want to be able to check it. we don't have top quality machine shops around here for motor work. so there will be as little as possible and I sure don't want to take it in and have them tell me I need a bunch of stuff I don't need. and that's a good idea I keep an eye out for auctions thank you.
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Mr. T
Well-known member
I would not claim to be any type of expert in metrology but asking a bore gauge to be accurate to a tenth on a six inch bore might be asking too much.
Darbikrash
New member
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- Aug 1, 2012
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I have the Fowler set, and for the money it is good deal. For dial bore gauges, there are 3 considerations: accuracy, resolution, and repeatability. They all mean different things.
For measuring bores, repeatability and resolution are the most important. Repeatability is being able to remove the instrument and reapply it and get the same reading. Resolution is the minimum graduation increment on the dial, which is related to the tolerances you are looking to achieve.
For most cylinder bore measuring, accuracy is not as important, because the correct way to use the gauge is to place the gauge in the bore, zero the dial, and then transfer this reading to a micrometer. In this case the micrometer provides the accuracy, leaving the gauge requirements to be repeatable and have sufficient resolution for the job.
There are cases where you might need to use a dial bore gauge for measurements that require absolute accuracy, usually in production where you are measuring many pieces that have a tolerance range that the gauge is reading. In these cases maybe one of the more expensive brands like Starret or Mitutoyo would be a better choice, but for most people involved in garage work, used properly, the lower cost brands are fine.
For measuring bores, repeatability and resolution are the most important. Repeatability is being able to remove the instrument and reapply it and get the same reading. Resolution is the minimum graduation increment on the dial, which is related to the tolerances you are looking to achieve.
For most cylinder bore measuring, accuracy is not as important, because the correct way to use the gauge is to place the gauge in the bore, zero the dial, and then transfer this reading to a micrometer. In this case the micrometer provides the accuracy, leaving the gauge requirements to be repeatable and have sufficient resolution for the job.
There are cases where you might need to use a dial bore gauge for measurements that require absolute accuracy, usually in production where you are measuring many pieces that have a tolerance range that the gauge is reading. In these cases maybe one of the more expensive brands like Starret or Mitutoyo would be a better choice, but for most people involved in garage work, used properly, the lower cost brands are fine.
Ohmthis
Well-known member
I have time with the fowler dial bore gauge. I'd have to go back and look at the range, but it may even be smaller like 1.2-6". Anyways they are good and repeatable for what you are doing. You MUST set them up correctly and they will give you years of service. I've used mine for engine rebuilds and have been happy with them. Id spend my money on a very good set of micrometers if you plan do do this often, that is where you can make the fowler gauge shine.
B.S.A. (ret.)
Well-known member
If you are at a machine shop auction or surplus machinery house, you might run across a Sunnen bore gage set-up. These are also top quality as they were used in conjunction with a precision honing machine. Pretty pricey new though...
Packard V8
Well-known member
The accuracy of a dial bore gauge depends on the setting fixture. The Sunnen fixture costs more than the gauge, but yes, it can be accurate to a tenth on a 6.00" bore.
jack vines
dnschmidt
Well-known member
As most here know I think the Snap-On guys are flat out nuts for paying through the *** for a wrench, BUT I'll admit I LOVE Starrett and Mitutoyo is close behind. For a precision piece of equipment that just has got to be right OR IT'S COMPLETELY WRONG I'm willing to pay up. Yes, I love me some Starrett. They call themselves the world's greatest tool makers and I'm a true believer. There I said it.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
My bore gage is a Diatest brand. Came with different range heads and the ring gages to calibrate it.
My buddy who does a lot of CNC turning used Mitutoyo bore gages.
Typically unless you are checking lots of holes, on a regular basis, it's less expensive to use telescope gages and a micrometer. With some practice, you can measure to tenths of a thou pretty quickly.
My buddy who does a lot of CNC turning used Mitutoyo bore gages.
Typically unless you are checking lots of holes, on a regular basis, it's less expensive to use telescope gages and a micrometer. With some practice, you can measure to tenths of a thou pretty quickly.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
As far as micrometers, I like Mitutoyo and Starrett. Get the ones with the ratchet thimbles and carbide faces. They are a lifetime tool.
Personally I don't care for Brown and Sharpe with their slant line reading, but some guys love them.
If you don't want to spring for the nice mics, Fowler is about the cheapest I feel comfortable going.
Personally I don't care for Brown and Sharpe with their slant line reading, but some guys love them.
If you don't want to spring for the nice mics, Fowler is about the cheapest I feel comfortable going.
Op. good timing. MSC is having a 25% off sale today. So basicallly your fowler is about a buck eighty with free shipping.
You could also try the discount code they provided me today and see if the 40% off is applicable. Use: ship40 In the discount code section.
https://m.mscdirect.com/mobileweb/product_detail?id=63682165&hasRestrictedParts=false
You could also try the discount code they provided me today and see if the 40% off is applicable. Use: ship40 In the discount code section.
https://m.mscdirect.com/mobileweb/product_detail?id=63682165&hasRestrictedParts=false
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californiaHank
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- Nov 20, 2015
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- 487
The Fowler bore gauge is only .0005" graduations.
The OP said he was looking for .0001" accuracy, which doesn't come cheap.
shocker998md
Well-known member
I've been in the same boat for setting up bearing clearances. I have settled on saving my money for a sunnen since I build one engine or so a year for myself and help friends build another one or two a year.
I've found the best price is through sunnen but it's pricey, but I'll have it for the rest of my life.
I've tried some of the cheaper ones and I found the ball bearing will scratch the bearing surface if your not super careful and it was tough to get a repeatable reading.I ended up borrowing or taking my projects to someone that has a sunnen dial bore guage but I'm ready to be able to have my own.
I've found the best price is through sunnen but it's pricey, but I'll have it for the rest of my life.
I've tried some of the cheaper ones and I found the ball bearing will scratch the bearing surface if your not super careful and it was tough to get a repeatable reading.I ended up borrowing or taking my projects to someone that has a sunnen dial bore guage but I'm ready to be able to have my own.
Obviously I read it differently. When he stated he thought that four bills was a bit much for a gauge, I figured he accidentally added one too many zeros.
And your right about that but like any other tool you become familiar with, you'll know when you're plus or minus a couple tenths with a fowler. I own one and use it often, it does just fine. But like I said the key is having good micrometers.
first off thank you to everyone for the responses. its been a great help to talk to folks with hands on experience. shocker998md I would love a sunnen but even used ones are a lot of money for one or two at the most sbc's a year. and thanks for the try lxcam but i'm looking for the .0001. dr_clyde you and a lot of others have said spend the good money on micrometers, starrett an mitutoyo my friend that's retired from his own metal fab business also recommended starrett I have a set of habor freight mic's that my goofy brother in law gave me an they are worthless but the thing is I was looking at the fowlers and other than the name they looked the same. so I think starrett vernier is the way to go. and I know what you mean dnschmidt I use craftsman to skin my knuckles on a regular basis, and I use the extra money I saved not buying snap on to pay for band aids beer and peroxide. nice picture Packard V8 that's probably as close as i'll ever get to a sunnen. Ohmthis is yours a .0005 or .0001 I have not seen the 1.2-6" I did see a .7-2.5" but at $140.00 ish to much. Darbikrash when your talking about - place the gauge in the bore, zero the dial and then transfer this reading to a micrometer. are you talking about a snap gauge. kind of lost me there but other than that great info thank you. mr. T this is just for sbc around the 4 in. area but it should work fine though out the range. at this point i'm looking at the fowler 1.4-6" in .0001 and starret vernier micrometers in .0001 with ratcheting knob. I think for grandson and I this will probably work just fine. thanks to everyone for your input.
For a dial bore to be accurate it should be set with size blocks or a ring gage very close to the size being measured. A ring gage is best as the anvils develop worn faces with a radius equal to the size measured. If you measure a lot at one size and then reset to a different size this can bite you if you set with size blocks or a ring gage that is away from the size being measured. I once saw several thousand dollars worth of parts scrapped for this reason
ttpete
Well-known member
There's one more. My 4 and 5" are Lufkins. I was lucky enough to find them in unused condition at a decent price, and they check out just fine on my Starrett jo-blocks.
i'm planning on getting the blocks and set up stand. they won't be used enough to were anything out. although a ring in the right size would be great. I have not heard of Lufkin other than I think I have a tape measure around here somewhere with that name, is it the same outfit.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
Lufkins are great if you can find them, but they haven't been made in years. I was thinking OP wanted to buy new.
mowkep
Well-known member
Our shop was in with another shop at one time. They internally ground bearing races and checked them with dial bore gauges. Never saw them come back either
mowkep
Well-known member
And yes they were Sunnens.
bob15
Well-known member
Not all B&S are slant lines. The 2 or 3 B&S I have are straight line, same as a Starrett.
When we get down to measuring 0.0001, we are getting a little silly. I've only ever had about three customers, Who gave me a +- 0.00005 tolerance . Well ****, if you hold the part or mic too long in your hand, from what they require 22° C measurement, it gets sent back. (It's only happened once, stupid tank transmission parts). I ground the bore to the minus size. The bearing came in on the plus size. Guess who had to fix?
well firstly they claim Accuracy +/- .001 so they are the wrong tool for the job you're doing anyway.
However, I have a set of the HF mics, a Starrett, a set of Fowlers, and mutiple Mitutoyo digital calipers. Using any of the given gage blocks either that I have here or at the school lab, I can get a repeatable consistent measurement across all of these devices.
The HF ones are not good for you if you are looking for 0.0001" but check them against a good standard. Unless they were abused, or if they need calibration, they should do what they claim without any difficulty.
the hf one's are worthless because you have to have a strong magnifying glass to read them where the marks are still there. the marks are not cut into the metal just kind of etched on metal these were given to me years ago and I just threw them in the bottom drawer of my tool box.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
Thanks for the update. It's always nice to hear what the OP finally went with.