Help with framing quote!

[JeromeM]

Hi everyone! Been lurking here for a long time, my garahe project has started (24x40 attached garage) and I will be starting a build thread shortly but I have a question first.

I live just outside of Toronto, Ontario, Canada for reference.

I'm attaching plans for the garage and the truss layout (engineered trusses). I had a framer quote me just framing labor IE up walls, trusses, sheeting. Note the stairs in thr plans are not in scope.

His price was $25,000.00. Maybe I'm the crazy one but that seems like an awful lot, I was assuming/budgeting in the 10k range. Realistically if I did it myself (I am capable, just not sure I have the time but if it's that or 25k I'm going to make the time) I could get the walls up in 5 days, trusses up on a weekend with some help. A professional framing crew could get this done in a week I'm sure.

What do you guys think?

 

[firebirdparts]

It’s might be high, but then it’s Toronto. The tie-in to the existing house is not trivial, but then again the worst part of that is the grunt work. Not difficult to get it precise enough.

 

[firebirdparts]

I guess I should have asked is this labor and materials or just labor?

 

[JeromeM]

I guess I should have asked is this labor and materials or just labor?

Just labor only. I'm supplying materials separately.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

My guess is that if you won't pay to hire him that week someone else will.

 

[JeromeM]

My guess is that if you won't pay to hire him that week someone else will.

But what's a acceptable price for framing a 900sq ft garage? This is $28/sq ft for labor only

 

[ducatithunder]

So my 28x46 that I built a few years ago in the slump prior to the lumber bubble cost me roughly 10-15K in just lumber. That was for all the I joists, Huber Advantech sheathing, and framing lumber to get it roughed in. i did use premium grade lumber and components. So with todays lumber market that doesn't sound all that crazy, especially if that is the labor to frame and erect it. You may think that you will be able to get that up over the course of a week but without a crew or renting alot of equipment you would be surprised how slow it really goes. If you do it yourself youll be asking alot of favors from friends who may or maynot know what the hell there doing. I framed my entire garage and it took me the better part of 1-2 months to get to the point that I could put raise the roof. Given I was building 4-5 days a week, it was the summer in MD ... that lovely heat and humidity. I did alot of prep work and building and planned to have help lifting things into place. I was the only one framing. The help I got from friends was grunt lifting and pushing up walls ... etc, as most didnt know how to build anything. They were 12ft walls in the rear, raked side walls and a 15ft front wall. and a 22ft 3 ply header. I also had alot of the equipment on hand that one would need to build solo, ie man lifts, forklifts, aerial lifts, and not to mention all the tools needed. So to save 10K and build it yourself I think you need to think about it really hard and see what your time cost plus. If you dont have the tools plan on at least 3-5K in tooling you'll most likely have to buy, plus lifting rentals. I almost forgot about the permits/inspections if that is a thing in up north ... so added cost there too.

Not a rant, just speaking from the experience I have. Would I do it again, yes. It was a journey and I enjoyed it. I did save some money but there was also alot of stress at times. Good luck.

 

[JeromeM]

So my 28x46 that I built a few years ago in the slump prior to the lumber bubble cost me roughly 10-15K in just lumber. That was for all the I joists, Huber Advantech sheathing, and framing lumber to get it roughed in. i did use premium grade lumber and components. So with todays lumber market that doesn't sound all that crazy, especially if that is the labor to frame and erect it. You may think that you will be able to get that up over the course of a week but without a crew or renting alot of equipment you would be surprised how slow it really goes. If you do it yourself youll be asking alot of favors from friends who may or maynot know what the hell there doing. I framed my entire garage and it took me the better part of 1-2 months to get to the point that I could put raise the roof. Given I was building 4-5 days a week, it was the summer in MD ... that lovely heat and humidity. I did alot of prep work and building and planned to have help lifting things into place. I was the only one framing. The help I got from friends was grunt lifting and pushing up walls ... etc, as most didnt know how to build anything. They were 12ft walls in the rear, raked side walls and a 15ft front wall. and a 22ft 3 ply header. I also had alot of the equipment on hand that one would need to build solo, ie man lifts, forklifts, aerial lifts, and not to mention all the tools needed. So to save 10K and build it yourself I think you need to think about it really hard and see what your time cost plus. If you dont have the tools plan on at least 3-5K in tooling you'll most likely have to buy, plus lifting rentals. I almost forgot about the permits/inspections if that is a thing in up north ... so added cost there too.

Not a rant, just speaking from the experience I have. Would I do it again, yes. It was a journey and I enjoyed it. I did save some money but there was also alot of stress at times. Good luck.

But this 25k is just labor quote, lumber and materials is another 25k.

 

[ducatithunder]

Understood. Still don’t think it’s to far off based on my area or the greater surrounding DC area. It might be worth countering but it the market justifies it they guy will get booked for another gig … even more so if he is quality. To many garbage contractors out there now a days.

 

[JeromeM]

Understood. Still don’t think it’s to far off based on my area or the greater surrounding DC area. It might be worth countering but it the market justifies it they guy will get booked for another gig … even more so if he is quality. To many garbage contractors out there now a days.

Yeah, I was ready to spend 10k I could justify that to myself it's just 25k I can't really see where that comes from. Even if they spent 10 days at $2500/day that's insane. 25k is what my new sled I ordered is costing me lol

 

[ducatithunder]

Yeah, I was ready to spend 10k I could justify that to myself it's just 25k I can't really see where that comes from. Even if they spent 10 days at $2500/day that's insane. 25k is what my new sled I ordered is costing me lol

Honestly I think your 10K budget for labor is on the low side. Let me give you some perspective ... I didnt do the T&G soffit on my garage due to timing and weather. The guys I hired came recommended by a buddy who does some high end work and remodels. He always has good recommendations and I can usually work out a deal that isnt the normal rate. The soffit was $4500 to hang, I providing the material ... this was mid 2020.

The guys who are worth it know it and what there time is worth. How many guys is he bringing ... labor isnt cheap. **** they are doing 20-30K price adjustments on cars right now in pen due to the market ... its nuts. I would shop around, get another look from another contractor but Im afraid that is the norm.

 

[Kezorm]

Based on my current project of a 30 x 50 attached garage / shop in MN, $25K labor might be slightly high. But 10K is way too low. Definitely get multiple bids, but I think be ready to pay much closer to $25K than $10K.

 

[JeromeM]

Based on my current project of a 30 x 50 attached garage / shop in MN, $25K labor might be slightly high. But 10K is way too low. Definitely get multiple bids, but I think be ready to pay much closer to $25K than $10K.

I guess I just was wrong in my estimates. This is strictly to frame walls, set trusses, sheet walls and roof that's it.

 

[Kezorm]

I guess I just was wrong in my estimates. This is strictly to frame walls, set trusses, sheet walls and roof that's it.

Yep. "Rough Carpentry Labor" on my bid. And mine was bid 9 months ago. Today I would expect it to come in another 10% higher or more. 2+ years ago, closer to $10K than $25K might be right (although I think $10K still a bit low). In this market, contractors get to pick and chose their work and we all know what happens when demand > supply.

 

[JeromeM]

Yep. "Rough Carpentry Labor" on my bid. And mine was bid 9 months ago. Today I would expect it to come in another 10% higher or more. 2+ years ago, closer to $10K than $25K might be right (although I think $10K still a bit low). In this market, contractors get to pick and chose their work and we all know what happens when demand > supply.

I need to switch careers at these prices lol

 

[p00p]

18-20 might be the price I'd expect, but that is my humble guess at it.

 

[murd]

I'm looking to put up a 24x30 gambrel package from a local building supplier. They said they had a crew that they contracted and they'd get a price for me to put it up and get it weather tight. 50k, just labour. The sales rep said it didn't seem like they wanted to do it at all, said they didn't like to amount of high work for the roof. So, I'm still looking, and now it's pretty late in our season for availability.

 

[Skooterj]

5 years ago, a crew charged me 28000 to frame my entire house, install siding, install doors and windows (except the overhead doors), soffit, fascia, floor system. Last summer, I had a quote of 6000 to frame a 24x32 garage with a 6/12 roof.

 

[Firebrick43]

I need to switch careers at these prices lol

There were a lot of carpenters in the hot markets in 2008 to. By 2010 there were probably half that number and the rest left had a lot of days off.

Its a feast or famine bussiness. The way things are shaping up if you wait a year I bet things will change drastically.

 

[danfromsyr]

$75,000+ brodozers don't buy themselves.

plus this is all in canadian dollars where your dollar is weaker and your labor is more $$ than a US equivalent.
add in Toronto and it's a high cost of living area.. so jut a few miles away they could be framing onto a $3million(CN) house..

 

[Stuart in MN]

For you guys in the US who are responding, remember that $25k Canadian = about $19.6k US.

I don't know what hourly rates are where you live, but if we assume $100/hr (in US dollars), that's about 200 hours of labor. If there are four men on the crew that's about 50 hours, or one long week.

Remember there's a big difference between what a company charges on an hourly basis, and the take-home pay of their employees. Typically it's around 1/3, the other 2/3 goes to overhead, insurance, and all kinds of other things, as well as profit. So, it's not like the framers are rolling in dough.

 

[Kezorm]

For you guys in the US who are responding, remember that $25k Canadian = about $19.6k US.

I don't know what hourly rates are where you live, but if we assume $100/hr (in US dollars), that's about 200 hours of labor. If there are four men on the crew that's about 50 hours, or one long week.

Remember there's a big difference between what a company charges on an hourly basis, and the take-home pay of their employees. Typically it's around 1/3, the other 2/3 goes to overhead, insurance, and all kinds of other things, as well as profit. So, it's not like the framers are rolling in dough.

This. I forgot to factor in currency rates. As Stuart says, I usually use $100/hr (USD) for fully burdened labor rate when estimating stuff like this. Might be a bit high for some stuff, but it's a reasonable, conservative starting point.

 

[tarmy]

Supply and demand…see what other bids look like. In this state getting anybody is hard. Hell, I waited a year for my electrician and he was very expensive. I wanted to use a guy I knew was good and the price was secondary.

Framing is at a premium around here…good luck OP. 20 K may just be what it is.

 

[trevan]

I am west of Toronto - Milton. Framing for a 24 x 14 workshop cost $5,600 last November. Basic 2 x 6 framing, site cut roof rafters, roof sheathing and install structural plywood siding - 5 man days to frame. That was the best of 3 prices!

 

[bigdav160]

45 years ago when I ran a 3 man framing crew that's a two day job.

 

[Zeke]

Based on what I'm reading here, $800/ day per man? CN or not... no. Workers comp here in CA doesn't exceed $30 per hundred and that's the biggest overhead cost. IDK what kind of equipment they plan on using, but they must be renting it.

 

[JeromeM]

@trevan
This is more like it, I was budgeting 10k so based on just less than double the size of yours that seemed about right to me. Do they work in Durham? lol

 

[JeromeM]

Based on what I'm reading here, $800/ day per man? CN or not... no. Workers comp here in CA doesn't exceed $30 per hundred and that's the biggest overhead cost. IDK what kind of equipment they plan on using, but they must be renting it.

Yeah, I fail to see where this pricing is coming from. I reached out to the framer and he said if I agreed to do the back framing (??) and help out the pricing would be lower and he's willing to work with me. But I'm sure we are still talking a high number.

Been watching a lot of framing videos on Youtube lol I've framed sheds and pavillions and stuff before just not an attached garage of this size.

 

[firebirdparts]

I need to switch careers at these prices lol

This right here. Raising a building is fun and you don't need to pay somebody with an 8th grade education $500 an hour to do it.

 

[NDJ]

I need to switch careers at these prices lol

Here in West coast Canada, Good framers get $35-$45 Can$ an hour. It probably similar where the OP is. Construction is crazy. We dont build anything else here anymore besides houses it seems.

 

[buzzworth]

Two men framed my garage addition. I supplied material, they had the tools, know-how, and available time. Nothing tricky, just tying into current roof as a dormer style. $2000 a day.
Roof was very pricey as I had to match the material and style of the house and current roof on the building. Lead/copper flashing & drip edge, special shingles.
I'm doing the siding & finishing...gradually.

 

[Juiced06GTO]

His fuel just to get his trucks and crew to the job every day and power his tools is probably north of $200 bucks. I am thinking its not a bad price in this market.

 

[4x4Pete]

His fuel just to get his trucks and crew to the job every day and power his tools is probably north of $200 bucks. I am thinking its not a bad price in this market.

Probably more like $600/ day. A lot of the contractors around the Toronto area need trucks with at least 44" tires and 8" lift kits just to get to the job. Lol!