Help with ideas for installing attic access

[trpltongue]

Hello all,

I've been recently introduced to the forum and have been blown away!

I hate to just jump in with a problem, but I could really use some help from the brilliant folks here.

I have a 3 car side by side with attic access above the 3rd bay. As of now I only have an access hole, no attic ladder.

I have 2 questions:

1) The rafters run across the garage (right to left as shown in the pic below) but I'd really like to put a proper ladder access running front to back for ease of access. Is it possible to cut the joists and put an access in running perpendicular to them?

2) My builder has assured me that the rafters (2x6 and 2x12) are sturdy enough for attic storage, but I'd love to hear from the experts here on your opinions. I've already put 7/16 OSB decking down but don't have anything up there yet.

I'm sure I'll be back with many more questions in the future, but these are the 2 most pressing for now

 

[Kevin54]

You don't want to cut the rafters. Is there a reason that you can't or don't want to move the opening more towards the front? You don't want to compromise the integrity of the rafters.

As far as using them for storage, if they aren't designed for storage, you don't want to overload them with items. A lot of people store items on 2x4 rafters with no problems. If you do store items up on the rafters, get the rafter specs from the builder or wherever the rafters came from. They will spell out what kind of load they are designed for.

Back to the opening, talk to your contractor, or talk with a structural engineer to see what would be the best way to add in an attic door and stairs the way you want without compromising the structural integrity of the design.

 

[readhead]

A little more info please. Is there living space above the other two bays? Just to be clear, we are not talking about cutting rafters but rather ceiling joists. Correct? What is the span of the joists?

 

[Trey T]

Only small percentage, if not at all, of thOse rafters are there to bear the weight of the roof, the rest are just side-to-side bracing.

The rafters are not your limitation, it's the wall framing. Most people on here load up cabinets and shelves on their walls without thinking and it's ok for them. Therefore, you should be very good to load up your junks up there.

 

[kbs2244]

Your builder is the expert.
He built it, he knows how strong it is.

But, yes, you can do what you want.
He will reinforce it if needed.

 

[SteveL]

I have two attic ladders that go the way yours should without modifying the rafters and they are not really a problem. If you space them away from the side walls the right amount, you can lower them with the cars parked if you have enough side room. Having full access is not a big deal as you can't really carry anything that big or heavy up the stairs anyway. I added an access hole with a trap door and a hoist so I can get larger items up there. It's a little more work but I put items up there that are not regularly used like the lawn spreader, wheel barrow, garden tools, etc.

 

[CNGsaves]

To Trpltongue it also depends on spacing between rafters and distance to floor (ie ceiling height). My rafters are 24" on center and I'm pursuing an attic ladder that will have rough opening that will not need any rafter cutting . . . thus only 22 1/2" wide. Ceiling height for me is only 8' so wood attic ladder is what I'm planning. You might consider aluminum ladder if ceiling height was say 10 ft.

Hey SteveL can you show some pics of your setup as it sounds good?

Anyone using one of those "insulation hoods" that go over the attic ladder so no heat loss for the attic ladder? Or some other method of insulating that opening?

 

[justsam]

Just as a caution when mounting the stairs or trim, do not use any drywall screws!

I got dinged for that on a buyers property inspection. Property was in Texas and I was in California at the time. Simple to remedy but cost me $$$$.

 

[trpltongue]

Sorry for the slow reply. Yes there is living space above the other 2 bays and unfortunately there is no way to add a door from the living space to the attic. Also, you are right that I meant the ceiling joists not rafters the only reason I want to move the access is because the current opening is tiny and right up against the slope of the roof. I want to move it to the space between bays to make it easier to access. The garage has 10' ceilings and unfortunately the space between joists is only 18".

I plan to add pallet racks or something similar so there should be minimal load on the walls except for the storage in the attic.

I will try to sketch out the current location and what I want to do and post it up.

 

[Makman]

You can put it in perpindicular but it would be a lot easier and safer for you to install it adjacent to the existing joists. You'll only have to cut and head off one joist. Try and find a joist thats already doubled up to start with if possible.

 

[ddawg16]

Getting a little off track here.....

but....

What are those orange tubes that just....stop in your attic?

 

[SteveL]

This is a really old shot but you can see where one attic ladder and the un painted trap door are. I will see if I can take something a little more current.

 

[trpltongue]

The orange tubes are conduit so that I can run additional wire later if I need to.

I'll see if I can figure out a way to run it parallel to the joists but there just isn't a good place to put the access running parallel.

Steve, that is about where my current access hole is. The problem is that because of the pitch of my roof, in the attic there is only about 3' of headroom there. If I could move the access towards the other 2 bays I would have a full 8' overhead clearance.

Perhaps I could put the access between bays 2 and 3 and have the ladder angle towards bay 3 and still be able to get it down without hitting any vehicles. I'll have to look at the floorplan a bit more.

 

[trpltongue]

Okay,

I've attached a pic of the floorplan below. The upstairs media room overlaps with the 2 car garage. The left side of the media room is basically on the left edge of the 2-car portion of the garage.

We park the expy in the 3rd bay and my car in the first bay. Second bay is open for now (usually filled with kids powerwheels, bikes, etc.)

I've also marked where the existing access hole is.

Around the 3rd bay is a 30" deep curb ~4" high.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Just trying to clarify something.


Are you trying to place the attic access, so it can be pulled down with the vehicles in the garage ?

 

[Falcon67]

Werner has some small landing footprint ladders that you might also consider. I left a 4' x 24" opening for mine in the shop, but it could be 24x24 and maybe smaller. Cutting joists for attic access is done all the time. It's no big deal if the proper framing is done. It's easier by far when the ceiling is open - try doing one in a drywall ceiling without tearing up a bunch of stuff.

 

[trpltongue]

I would like to be able to access the attic while the vehicles are in the garage preferably.

I don't mind tearing down the Sheetrock in the area and replacing if it means that I can get a proper attic access

 

[Makman]

I think your idea of putting between bay 2 and 3 is a good one. I' m assuming you have a beam in or under the ceiling carrying the joists between the those bays. If you need to go perpendicular, that might be a good place to do it.

Do you have contruction skills? or will you have to hire it out?

 

[Tim The Tool Man]

I see some potential code violations in your set up. If your garage has attic access and is joined to the house in the attic space (bedroom wall) then you will need to do some sheathing on the attic side of the bedroom wall for carbon monoxide infiltration reasons. You also have some fire infiltration concerns to deal with. I would strongly recommend you get a professional or two involved and get this work properly permitted and inspected for you family's safety.

In regards to the question about cutting joists to accommodate a drop stairway, yes it can be done if done so properly. Some good advice given by others here...

 

[camarotoolman]

Stairs on the inside of a garage eat up alot of valuable space, can you build something outside? Wish I would have done it that way.

 

[trpltongue]

Tim,

Very good points. To clarify, the pic is facing the exterior wall. On the adjoining bedroom wall there is sheathing and proper fire blocking. All construction was done by the builder and properly inspected. None of this work has been done by me.

Makman,

There is indeed a huge engineered beam that runs between bay 2 and 3 and the ceiling joists run from that beam to the outside wall. I wish I had taken more detailed pics of the garage and attic framing but I just didn't think to. I have a ton of the electrical runs etc. but not a lot of the attic framing. The only other consideration is that there are some angled beams that run from the roof down to some of the 2x12 ceiling joists. Obviously I would not want to cut into those joists as they are supporting the roof.

I do have a good bit of construction skill having helped build a friends house and having done kitchen remodeling as a part time job during high school and college. I just haven't done a lot of framing.

Camarotoolman,
I wouldn't be putting actual stairs in the garage, only drop down style stairs. Unfortunately I can't do anything outside the house because of homeowners restrictions.

Also, I should also clarify that these pics were taken during the construction phase which has been finished for a while now. The garage is fully finished, drywalled, etc. I've been living with the tiny access and have been frustrated by it and wanted to get some ideas for how I could rectify the situation when we move back to the states from Germany.

In an ideal world I would just have a door access in the upstairs media room and would air condition the space Alas, that's not feasible so second choice would be an extra wide attic access with gently sloping stairs so I can haul those heavy *** plastic bins of lights, etc. up into the attic for seasonal storage. It would be great if I could have the ladder land just between bays 2 and 3 so that I can access it even when the vehicles are in the garage.

 

[Makman]

When you decide where it's going and how you'll do it, take a look at the Fakro pulldowns. I put in a 30x54. It's nice and wide and has a narrow steel ladder. I've been able to push a lot of bulky stuff up mine.

I pulled it 7' from the side wall and have plenty of headroom with a 6/12 pitch. I do have a 2' knee wall that rafters sit on tho. Looks like you might have 8/12- 12/12.

Hope you don't mind a few pics

 

[Ken Greene]

http://www.bessler.com/

if you want a stable, secure disappearing stair case this is what you want

 

[trpltongue]

Makman,

That looks like exactly what I want to do. A nice "oversized" width and sturdy lightweight ladder. I belive that the attic roof is an 8/12 but not sure.

Ken,

Those Bessler stairs look incredible! The only potential problem I see is that I have 12' ceilings and there are only a couple of models that are suited for 12' ceilings and they require 8' long openings :eek

 

[readhead]

If while you are in the attic and the wall adjoining the house is not drywalled then the entire ceiling is the fire seperation. One of two things need to happen. Drywall and fire tape those walls or purchase a fire rated ladder assembly. From your picture it appears the roof is stick framed. Finding a place to head off an opening shouldn't be a problem. Consult with the builder or another contractor about the changes. With the info we have it looks like a pretty simple job. Check with your code official about rated assemblies. You may be able to achieve the rating by installing sheet metal over a stock door.

 

[trpltongue]

Readhead,

Yes, the house and roof is stick framed. As of now the attic access has only a hole cut with a piece of drywall that sits in place over the hole.

I *could* drywall and firetape the adjoining wall, but I think it would be much easier to use a fire-rated door or some other sort of solution

 

[Falcon67]

FWIW - In Texas, I rarely to almost never see any barriers in an attic between attached garage attic space and the house. I can only think of one and he works in the next office and it was done not for fire but because the house is spray foamed and that attic wall was required to seal the living space envelope. And have never seen a "fire rated" attic access door, unless somebody popped for a metal Werner or similar. 99.9% are the flimsy 200 lb rated wood doors you get at the big box store. Every house around here is the same, from $50K to 500K - wood access door in the garage, attic open all through. Except for the new houses with spray foam and using the roof as part of the conditioned space.

And yes - the downside of the small footprint ladders is that it's a beitoch to get things up and down. A little worse than teetering on a "200 lb" balsa wood builder installed unit.

 

[trpltongue]

Chris,

That's what I was thinking as well. I do remember seeing a fire rating on the drop-down door inside the house though.

The more I think about it, the more I'd love to be able to do some sort of access from the media room instead. I just don't think it's possible because of the weird framing they did:
Standing inside the upstairs media room looking "into" the attic.