Help with lift and possible barn purchase

[camaro0991]

Hey All, with my ever expanding family (twins on the way) Ive begun looking for a new house. We found a farmhouse with a bank barn in pretty good shape.

My question is, how would I go about installing my 4 post lift in the bank barn? Is it possible? The wooden second floor on the banked side is where the lift would go, I just don't know how safe it would be on an elevated wood floor. I could always add a building later for the lift instead but was trying for simplicity sake to use the existing building.


Thanks in advance.

 

[matt_i]

Its possible, but will take some work. Somehow you have to get enough structure lined up with the posts and transfer it down.

If you were supremely lucky the "joists" (and I have seen unpeeled logs used in barns) would matchup exactly to the post width. You should buy a couple of lotto tickets at that point as you could then just install some stout columns to transfer the loads down to concrete footings below.

If you aren't as lucky you'd have to do some more framing to make sure the column can't fall over in its mid-joist position, once its loaded.

I joke about it but the column tipover protection is important in both situations.

 

[66Caprice]

You really should have an Engineer look at it for you. He can evaluate the structure and give you a plan to do or not do it.

 

[pbon]

I have a 4 post on a wood floor over a basement but I have steel beams underneath the wood floor. It’s an old carriage house with some modern reinforcement. 23x29 with a later poured concrete sidewalls. There are 5 or 6 steel beams supporting the original wood beams and also steel columns supporting the middle of the beams (the ends are on 6x8 PT on top of the poured concrete sidewalls).

 

[WIHD]

what could possibly go wrong?

 

[Backwodsurvivor]

I'm interested in what comes of this. I'm also currently house shopping and I've been asking myself that exact question. I'm sure its possible but I'm not sure the best/ most appropriate way to do it.

 

[pbon]

A car is sort of like a 4 post lift in terms of weight distribution. Each tire is like a post. The contact patch of the post is similar. Lift weighs about 2k. If you would be lifting 3-6k cars on your 2k lift but would be perfectly content parking an 8k car or truck in the garage then you should be fine.

My recommendation, however, would be to add reinforcement posts under the lift post areas.

 

[rburke65]

Yes I would think you are going to need some structural steel under the 4 post lift. Be very careful.

 

[Farmall450]

You really should have an Engineer look at it for you. He can evaluate the structure and give you a plan to do or not do it.

^
I sure as hell wouldn't go hammer in a few lag bolts (no pre drill ) and send it like some of these guys will suggest.

With that said, I know of one with several heavy tractors on it long term.

 

[pbon]

My 4 post is not bolted down.

 

[camaro0991]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Definitely, a lot to think about if I go this route. I feel like the building would make a really really cool workshop If I could better weatherproof it/reinforce the floor. House wasn't exactly perfect for my needs at the moment so I'm passing on it unless the price comes down a lot. The barn was pretty solid though, so If I reinforce it, I think I could pull it off.

Now whether its easier to repair/repurpose and old barn or just build a new garage next to it, is another debate I need to weigh.

 

[TractorJeff]

4 post lift would be easier than a 2 post!
After all PROBABLY a 5500lb tractor pulled in on that floor with a hay wagon more than once.
That said, Evaluate it or get an Engineer to Evaluate it for you!

 

[Backwodsurvivor]

I am still very interested in this idea.

Put in an offer today on a home with a beautiful bank barn that I would love to use as a shop. I would much rather have 2 posts than 4.

What are the thoughts on a pair of steel plates under each post? Full 4x8 sheets should spread the load pretty well.

I'm not sure what wooden barn floors are normally rated to. 50-80 PSF?

 

[pbon]

I would not do it. I removed the wood floor, filled it and poured a slab in my last barn so I could have a 2 post lift. I moved last year and the barn is a little bigger and again it has a wood floor with basement underneath. I considered steel plate and was advised against it. I considered concrete columns and was advised against that. I was told the minimum slab would have to be about 8x14 but even then it was suggested I talk to a structural engineer.

I have steel I beams under my wood floor and considered putting steel plates on top of the beams and pouring a slab on top of that. I probably would have needed more steel I beams than I have.

Fill it and pour a slab in the area you want the lift if you must have a 2 post.

 

[Backwodsurvivor]

Like the barn you mention it has a cow parlor underneath what I believe was used as a hayloft (the space I would now like to use as a shop.) Can your pour a concrete second floor? It sounds like that would become cost prohibitive pretty quick.

 

[pbon]

Yes, it would because of the steel beam structure you need underneath. It is done all the time in commercial buildings, parking garages, etc. Fill in the basement with fill, gravel and sand. If you want to do only the lift area, then you have to build walls to hold the fill in that area of the basement. This is why I did not fill my current barn basement. Cost goes up. Having had a 2 post for 7 years and now a 4 post for 1 year, I prefer the 2 post but am able to do everything I need with the 4 post. It just is not as convenient to me.

Consider that a 4 post with rolling jacks costs twice as much as a 2 post. You could put the difference towards filling the basement and pouring the slab.

 

[firebirdparts]

Wood is flexible and has to be oriented carefully to get sufficiently strong joints. The strong joints you need here are the bolts that hold the two post lift down. The load on a two post is cantilevered, and for instance if you have a 6000 pound vehicle up there, let's say each post has half that weight cantilevered out 2 feet. It'll put torque on the base plate 6000 ft-lb. The typical anchors used are rated for 5000 pound pull out for one anchor.

You are not going to be anchoring, you are going to be bolting all the way through, so you can spread that load sufficiently by something like your steel plate. If you succeed at that, then the real problem is the flex. There are lots of ways to improve that. One of which is choice of the lift itself. Some lifts can hold themselves together in space more than others.

To me, you avoid 100% of the issue just by having a 4 post. FWIW.

I have a lift on the 2nd floor, and my lift is on a 4" concrete slab on bar trusses. I have a little gang of extra trusses under the lift, but I also have solid support close to the lift posts, both sides. Really what I have is overbuilt.

 

[Mattlt]

Haylofts were built originally to hold a lot of weight. The problem here is the point load. But you probably have already figured that out.

Are you sure you want to work on vehicles on a wood floor? Fuel / fire hazard. Keep several extinguishers handy, or it's over.