Help with Lighting Install.

[sxk122]

I just want a little input before I actually install these lights. I think I know what I'm doing, but I'd like a little input. I am not so concerned about exact code per-say, but I don't want to burn down my house.

My garage (22x23) currently has a single ceiling light fixture that supports 2 60 watt bulbs. I don't have much of a budget, but want to replace the fixture with a couple fluorescent lights. I'm tired of working with a halogen lamp aimed at the ceiling for light.


The garage is laid out like this, pardon my lack of drafting skills.

I am pretty sure I would like to have 5 4' 2 light fixtures. I like these based on cost and look. I generally have 2 cars parked nose-in in the garage. I want most of my light concentrated toward the work bench (orange) and over the front of the cars. I was thinking 3 lights lengthwise at that end of the garage, and then 2 lights at the 'front' of the garage. I want to replace the chains used to hang the lights with 1/4" threaded rod. I intend to run the rod into the attic and bolt them through a 2x4 nailed across the joists. I intend to hard wire the lights using the existing power running to the light fixture. I am relatively certain the existing wire is 12/2 Molex. I want to remove the light fixture and install a junction box. From there, I'll run 14/2 wire to each of the 5 lights, adding a junction box where the light joins into the wire. Wire staple the runs of wire to the joists(that's how all other wires in the garage are secured).

Is there anything I'm missing?

 

[pattenp]

Are you aware the lights you linked to are corded plug-in fixtures? Also if the existing wiring is #12 then the circuit may be 20 amps which means you need to use #12 to extend the circuit to the lights.

 

[svronthmve]

There's a lot more to doing this than just throwing up lights.

You need to know what else is on the circuit (from the panel breaker) not just the switch. You need to do a load calculation to see if what's on the circuit, plus what you want to add will be supportable and legal.

The poster above is correct. You should not and are not allowed to mix guages of wire on the same circuit.

If you don't understand what I'm talking about, you need to have a qualified individual do the work, or at the very least guide you in the proper way. It should be someone who can put an eyeball on it - not coming from a bunch of people on the internet!

I'm a contractor. I frequently fix jobs started by individuals like this. Sometimes they call because the problem(s) created are a frustrating nuisance. Other times it's because something went horribly wrong.

Just remember, sometimes saving a few bucks can be one of the most expensive decisions we make. Ponder on that for awhile......

 

[sxk122]

The lamps are plug in, but my intent was to hard wire it in a junction box. I suppose instead of a junction I could put a plug-in socket in each box, but having it all sealed seemed more logical to me. Is there a reason not to hardwire them? I just checked, the fuse that controls that light is a 20 amp. So use 12/2, yes?

Thanks for the help pattenp

 

[sxk122]

svronthmve-- I'm not a professional, that's part of why I'm asking for help. I can follow instructions well and am handy, I just don't know what knowledge I lack.

The only other things on that fuse are the outdoor light, and 2 wall plugs that are on the left wall of garage. The garage door opener is on another fuse that handles some of the kitchen outlets. I find it odd how little is on the circuit, but I didn't lay it out. We mapped the box when we moved in (a tedious task I really didn't enjoy, lol)

 

[sxk122]

If each new fixture (5) needs a max of 32 watts, i'm using at most 160 watts.

The exterior light is designed for 2 60 watt bulbs (albeit I have CFL's in there) But at most 120 Watts

if the breaker is 20 amp 120, I have 2400 watts total available. You only use 80% of what is available, so I can use 1920 watts total.

1920 (total) - 120 (outoor) - 160 (new)= 1640 remaining for the two outlets.

The largest thing I ever plug in is my compressor (13 amps/ 115 volts= 1552), so I should be fine as I'm still well under 80% load.




**( if I look at this right, the current fixture uses 2 60 watt bulbs, so 120 watts total. The 5 new fixture would only draw 160 watts, so although it's a lot more wiring, It won't be much more draw-- kind of a neat example of how much more efficient fluorescents are)

 

[pattenp]

If you want the lights hardwired then buy the proper fixtures to be hardwired. If you do use outlets to plug in the lights you linked then the outlets will need to be GFCI protected.

 

[pattenp]

That's 32W per lamp, not per fixture. Also the amp draw needs to be taken from the ballast label.

If each new fixture (5) needs a max of 32 watts, i'm using at most 160 watts.

The exterior light is designed for 2 60 watt bulbs (albeit I have CFL's in there) But at most 120 Watts

if the breaker is 20 amp 120, I have 2400 watts total available. You only use 80% of what is available, so I can use 1920 watts total.

1920 (total) - 120 (outoor) - 160 (new)= 1640 remaining for the two outlets.

The largest thing I ever plug in is my compressor (13 amps/ 115 volts= 1552), so I should be fine as I'm still well under 80% load.




**( if I look at this right, the current fixture uses 2 60 watt bulbs, so 120 watts total. The 5 new fixture would only draw 132 watts, so although it's a lot more wiring, It won't be much more draw-- kind of a neat example of how much more efficient fluorescents are)

 

[sxk122]

I'll go check the amp draw. If it's 32 per bulb, its 320 based on the bulbs, so still within limits . I just need to check the ballasts. Thanks for the help.

 

[sxk122]

Do you have a suggestion on fixtures? I wanted black housing 2 bulb shop lights, but anything I see is all plug in. What is the difference between a plug in, and a fixture designed to take a wire directly?

 

[Rodhotz]

Do you have a suggestion on fixtures? I wanted black housing 2 bulb shop lights, but anything I see is all plug in. What is the difference between a plug in, and a fixture designed to take a wire directly?

nothing just it comes with the plug installed. put a knock out cover to plug the hole from the cord then use whatever knock out you need to hardwire them and use the right hardware for attaching the wire to the fixture.

 

[sxk122]

Great. I was also thinking of using a disconnect like this rather than wire nuts.

That way if I need to change them, or service the ballast I don't have to mess with pulling everything apart.....



Thanks for all the help guys




(on an unrelated note, y'all may be able to help with-- when we mapped the breakers we have a breaker that doesn't appear to control anything. There is a 15 amp breaker that was labeled by the PO as "Garage" [the garage light is controlled by 'misc light' and the opener is on the kitchen plugs] . We can't find a single outlet, light, or device in the house the "Garage" breaker controls. I wonder if it leads to anything at all, and if it doesn't I'd love to use it for my compressor or something. Any ideas on how to trace it?)

 

[pattenp]

I have a couple of the black Utilitech lights that you linked to and they do not have knock outs for being hardwired. They are cord and plug only. If you like the black just put in some outlets to plug them in.

 

[Eslader]

The largest thing I ever plug in is my compressor (13 amps/ 115 volts= 1552), so I should be fine as I'm still well under 80% load.

Your surge load on that compressor is probably going to be higher than that. My compressor is rated at 13 amps too, but when it kicks on while the tank is still mostly full, it will trip a 15a breaker (which is why I made sure the wiring in my current house is up to snuff). That's because it initially draws a lot more than rated power to get the motor started.

 

[Rodhotz]

I have a couple of the black Utilitech lights that you linked to and they do not have knock outs for being hardwired. They are cord and plug only. If you like the black just put in some outlets to plug them in.

And what would stop him from doing his own knock out?

 

[pattenp]

Yeah... and what would also stop him from just cutting off the plug and hard wiring the cord to a ceiling box? Nothing. The point is the light is not designed for hard wiring and modifying it will definitely void any warranty and UL listing it may have.

And what would stop him from doing his own knock out?

 

[sxk122]

I'm not worried about warranty and such, I just want to burn the house down. Any way to find out the surge load on a compressor?

 

[Rodhotz]

Go and get a clamp on amp meter and clamp it around the wires and trip the switch and see how much it pulls.

 

[Rodhotz]

Explain the difference between the plug and hard wire? why would it void the warranty? power is power...from a plug or hardwire same voltage. if that were the case why do they make a knockout press.

 

[DirtRoad]

From an electrical stand point there isn't any reason you can't hardware a hanging plug in shop light. The sky won't fall, puppies won't die and the children will be fine.

The question is why? Go buy direct wire lights. It's what they are meant for.

 

[DirtRoad]

This is what i did


After i prime and paint i will put it all in conduit.

 

[sxk122]

Thanks guys. The only reason I am looking at fidling with the wiring is I don't see fixtures I like in that price range. Dirt road, how far are your lights spaced? Do you like the light output?

 

[DirtRoad]

Thanks guys. The only reason I am looking at fidling with the wiring is I don't see fixtures I like in that price range. Dirt road, how far are your lights spaced? Do you like the light output?

I honestly dont know, i eye balled it using the posts of the barn and the seems of the osb.

Down the center are 4 bulb t8 8 foot fixtures and 2 bulb t8 4 foot fixtures on the sides.

Got the 4 footers at menards for $20 each and got the 8 footers at home depot for $40 each.

 

[DirtRoad]

If you want to do it the way you pictured you need

5 of these, they start down to 0F
http://menards.com/main/lighting-fa...e-fluorescent-striplight/p-1475034-c-7242.htm

Then you will need a case of bulbs, dont buy them individually.
http://menards.com/main/lighting-ce...lamp-6500k-color-12-pack/p-1468028-c-7478.htm

 

[geola]

Lowes has a fixture that is plug in with 4-t-8 bulbs. they are $59 each. I installed 9 of them in my 16x23 garage and 2 over the work bench, outstanding light for a low cost.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

After i prime and paint i will put it all in conduit.

Wow, that is a lot of work, putting up all that lighting, then taking it back apart to paint and install conduit. Think I would have painted first.

***

The lighting setup the OP shows puts lights directly over the bays where vehicles will be parked, not a good place. The lights should be off to the sides of the bays so as to provide illumination for working on the car, etc.

Charles

 

[sxk122]

Thanks. So the two lights over the bays should be moved 'outwards' more? Should front and back outer lights line up, and just have the center light at front? I have 2 small cars, so the noses of the cars are about even with the garage opener.

 

[sxk122]

Also, when working on a car I generally have one car pulled out and am parked in the middle, I hate not having space to work.

 

[Eslader]

Go and get a clamp on amp meter and clamp it around the wires and trip the switch and see how much it pulls.

Be sure to fill the compressor first, then just run an air gun or something to discharge it to the point where the compressor kicks in again - the motor has to work harder to start when the tank is partially full of air than when it's empty.

 

[DirtRoad]

Wow, that is a lot of work, putting up all that lighting, then taking it back apart to paint and install conduit. Think I would have painted first.

***

Took under 2 hours to put it all up.
I wont have to take it all down either when i prime, paint and put it in conduit. Should take me well under 2 hours to do. Not including the priming and painting of course.