Help with MIG Welder Purchase

[dis00]

good evening,

couple of years ago a purchased a welder from Harbour Freight. I had coupons and go *** for under $90. I haven't really used it as every time I have it has given me terrible results. Lots of splatter. I bought it to do body panel work which I never got round to as I'm not confident the machine and my skills will give me the finish I want. So I have done a little research and I believe my best option is to get a MIG welder, some solid core wire and some shielding gas. So here are my questions.

Im considering this welder
https://www.eastwood.com/mig-welder-110vac-135a-output.html

The main use will be body panels and floor pans. I have done some research on tanks and have seen recommendations for leasing the tanks or purchasing CO2 tanks. I have one project car that I plan on doing the floor pans, some work on the rear quarter panels and thats about it for now.

Any recommendations?

Also, stark will work best for what I'm looking to do, C25 or CO2? Does the savings of CO2 out weight the benefits of C25

Thanks in advance

Dean

 

[Bondo]

I haven't really used it as every time I have it has given me terrible results. Lots of splatter. I bought it to do body panel work which I never got round to as I'm not confident the machine and my skills will give me the finish I want.

Ayuh,..... Buyin' another off-brand welder ain't gonna make yer welds Prettier,.....
Hood time, makes yer welds prettier, 'n generally Better,.....

I suggest some scrap steel of 'bout the same thickness of yer floorpans, '
n fenders,....
Then 10 or 20 hours of Practice, before ya blame the welder for yer short comin's,....
'n quit buyin' chinese welders,....
At a minimum, a Lincoln 140 amp, 120v welder, for 'bout $500......

 

[slackdaddy1]

Stay AWAY from that "no-name" ****.
Lincoln or miller. And do not buy a Home depot Lincoln.

I have a few Mig welder and by far the best is my little Lincoln SP-100, Because??
Because it has an infinitely variable voltage adjustment, that is very important when welding thinner stuff. My Hobarts have "stepped" voltage adjustments.
When welding 1/8" and under, you really need to be able to "dial in" the voltage,, cant do that with a stepped voltage adjustment.
I do see the Eastwood has infinite variable voltage adjustment,, but in the end it is a Imported clone of Lincoln.

For body panel work,, a used SP-100 or any of the Lincoln/Miller 100-140 units will be more than enough,, and you can get parts walking into ANY welders supply house.

Slack

 

[Ozwelder]

I have done some research on tanks and have seen recommendations for leasing the tanks or purchasing CO2 tanks. I have one project car that I plan on doing the floor pans, some work on the rear quarter panels and thats about it for now.

Any recommendations?

Also, stark will work best for what I'm looking to do, C25 or CO2? Does the savings of CO2 out weight the benefits of C25

Thanks in advance

Dean

Mig stands for Metal Inert Gas which indicates the shielding gas is inert. Inert means that it does not react. CO2 is highly reactive. It is a cost saving mode utilised by people not bright enough to apply the best methods for the best outcome.

Using CO2 is the equivalent of using a 6010 or 6011 electrode on sheet metal.
CO2 is meant for extra deep penetration in heavy plate.

Anyone who advises full CO2 as a shielding gas for automotive sheet metal is completely talking through their ****. Am I being subtle enough here?

Find some real auto sheet metal workers and they will give you competent advice True some shielding gases contain CO2. The shielding gas usually used for MIG welding steel is a mixture of 75%
argon and 25% CO2 and will not blast through your sheet panel.

There are flux-cored wires that do not need shielding gas, but they do not suit panel work.
For sheet metal, .024” ER 70 S-6 wire with C25 shield gas is a good place to start.
Oz

 

[metaleltr]

I wouldn't right off all imported machines but I would focus on those with good reviews and a good following. I'm currently using an HTP MIG200 that is built like a tank and welds like a beast. Everlast also has a large following of good reviews and great customer service. Strongly consider your future plans. If you only buy enough welder for this project the next project may call for more machine.

 

[Bill Bowman]

I wouldn't right off all imported machines but I would focus on those with good reviews and a good following. I'm currently using an HTP MIG200 that is built like a tank and welds like a beast. Everlast also has a large following of good reviews and great customer service. Strongly consider your future plans. If you only buy enough welder for this project the next project may call for more machine.

Not to derail this thread, but are you using the Pro Pulse HTP?

 

[nbruno]

I cannot agree more with the Lincoln/Miller advice. I have 3 MIG/ Flux core welding machines, a Hobart, Lincoln, an Eastwood. The Lincoln is the smallest of the 3 and by far is the best of the 3 and by far produces the best welds of the 3 and is the oldest. I have often times run that machine to its maximum rather than use my larger machines because it is that much better.
I use the Hobart 140 Mig for sheet metal because at its higher settings for 3/16" it just doesn't get the penetration running gas. On Flux it's fine but sheet metal needs gas. My 2¢.

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[XJSuperman]

I snagged my Miller 135 on C-list for less than $500 and its been fantastic so far. I use it all the time. Its a small machine with great potential and would do you well for small stuff like sheetmetal or general MIG stuff.

 

[Makoto]

All my welders are Miller, be patient and watch Craigslist. They cost more for a reason. Not being a welder snob but they work and keep working, have excellent support and if they ever do need work are easy to work on. A few years ago my 1978 Millematic 200 needed a diode after miles of wire being run with it. The schematic was on line and Mouser electronics had the diode for $30.00, no weird proprietary parts Miller even lists the values of resistors and caps on the schematic. My Grandchildren will be inheriting some great machines.

They cost more because they are built to be production line professional rigs. Hobarts have all the same guts except for the motors which do not need to be anywhere near the level of durability that a production line box.

When I say production line I mean welding 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. If you aren't even welding every day a miller is way overkill unless you just like the features some of the units provide.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Miller makes the best machines.

Buy something less in demand. MM35. Sidekick. Regency. Cricket. Anything with a white face. Find one cosmetically rough but mechanically perfect. Find one without a gun and buy a Profax M180.

 

[DaveOmak]

I bought my tanks 20+ years ago... Rental fees would have killed me by now... I suggest you buy a tank and 2 stage regulator...

 

[Stooge]

They cost more because they are built to be production line professional rigs. Hobarts have all the same guts except for the motors which do not need to be anywhere near the level of durability that a production line box.

When I say production line I mean welding 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. If you aren't even welding every day a miller is way overkill unless you just like the features some of the units provide.

Well you are obviously the mig welding expert
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6939771&postcount=20
But for the sake of discussion for the rest of us,

$500-$1000 for a welder doesn't have to mean people are only doing production welding, some people just want a quality machine that they aren't going to have to worry about when they go to use them. I might go a few weeks without touching my Miller 211, other times its used constantly for weeks, but either way, I can count on it working when I do use it. Buying a ************* or too small of a machine is going to cause a lot more regret than buying a quality, capable machine that maybe costs a forgettable amount more.

for the record, I also liked my Hobart 140

 

[dis00]

Thanks for all the input... The consensus appears to be "stay away from the Eastwood machine"

At the moment I am limited to 120V.

What machines do your recommend and where to buy from?

Thanks for helping!

 

[Jazzman442]

How is Hobart?

 

[slackdaddy1]

Read this over, and over and over, memorize it.

I cannot agree more with the Lincoln/Miller advice. I have 3 MIG/ Flux core welding machines, a Hobart, Lincoln, an Eastwood. The Lincoln is the smallest of the 3 and by far is the best of the 3 and by far produces the best welds of the 3 and is the oldest. I have often times run that machine to its maximum rather than use my larger machines because it is that much better.

My old Lincoln SP-100 is my goto rig for 1/8 and under (99.99999% auto body work)
The Hobart 210 with it's "stepped voltage selection" can not come close to the welds the Lincoln can do. The small infinitely variable Millers will do as good as the Lincoln.
The 220V Hobart is my 3/16 and larger machine,, the other no names I have collected are door stops

 

[Bretny]

Hobart is made by miller. I have owned a small body HH210 before the current multi voltage model. Its about 8 years old and prob close to 100lbs of wire through it. Only thing i ever replaced was consumables.
I came from a 120v lincoln sp135. I welded with that for many years and its still working. Im not a fan of the 100L lincoln guns so i tried hobart.

 

[slackdaddy1]

I could not disagree more.
His question was for auto body panel work,, you will never get the level of adjustment out of a stepped voltage selection MIG as you do with an infinatley variable machine,, and it REALLY shows up the thinner the metal.

Everytime I use my Hobart 210, I kick myself for not spending a few more to get a miller/Lincoln

They cost more because they are built to be production line professional rigs. Hobarts have all the same guts except for the motors which do not need to be anywhere near the level of durability that a production line box.

When I say production line I mean welding 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. If you aren't even welding every day a miller is way overkill unless you just like the features some of the units provide.

 

[Lassen Forge]

At the moment I am limited to 120V.

What machines do your recommend and where to buy from?

I highly recommend a Miller 211. You have dual voltage capacity (so when you get 220 you can take advantage of it), Variable voltage, small enough to be portable and run off a generator, good peripherals, great service, and if it needs work, you can either work on it yourself or take it to damned near any welding shop. And it even has an "automatic" setting which is a pretty awesome option if you need such a thing.

You can shop around the various welding stores, or if you're in the middle of BFE you can go online to one of the welding suppliers there (I had mine shipped from IOC because they had a heck of a special when I got it, but buy my supplies in town). . Don't forget a decent bottle (or 2), I run one weld gas (25/75) and the other 100% argon, depends on what I'm welding.

When I decided what to get I played with a number of friend's machines... the one I liked best was the Miller, close second was the Linc, and 3rd was the Hobart. I got so frustrated with the chinaclone one guy had spending more time dealing with gas feed and gun issues, weird voltage spikes, etc. I figured it this way - do I want to spend my day building a project, or futzing with the welder?

 

[nbruno]

Hobart is made by miller. I have owned a small body HH210 before the current multi voltage model. Its about 8 years old and prob close to 100lbs of wire through it. Only thing i ever replaced was consumables.
I came from a 120v lincoln sp135. I welded with that for many years and its still working. Im not a fan of the 100L lincoln guns so i tried hobart.

100 lbs of wire in 8yrs (12lbs/yr) is nothing, I do 100lbs of wire in 6 months. My Hobart crapped out the high voltage setting in 6 months while doing bracketry on an offroad jeep. I was pissed to say the least. Now I only run it with 030 Flux core. Its welds are OK, but as has been stated... Infinite adjustment is what one needs to effectively weld panels.

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[dis00]

Ive been looking at some of the used machines in my area and found a few

Millermatic 135 for $475
Hobart Handler 210 MVP for $500

Couldn't find any Lincoln 100-SP's. You mentioned they were old. Do they make a current model?

 

[dis00]

I highly recommend a Miller 211. You have dual voltage capacity (so when you get 220 you can take advantage of it), Variable voltage, small enough to be portable and run off a generator, good peripherals, great service, and if it needs work, you can either work on it yourself or take it to damned near any welding shop. And it even has an "automatic" setting which is a pretty awesome option if you need such a thing.

You can shop around the various welding stores, or if you're in the middle of BFE you can go online to one of the welding suppliers there (I had mine shipped from IOC because they had a heck of a special when I got it, but buy my supplies in town). . Don't forget a decent bottle (or 2), I run one weld gas (25/75) and the other 100% argon, depends on what I'm welding.

When I decided what to get I played with a number of friend's machines... the one I liked best was the Miller, close second was the Linc, and 3rd was the Hobart. I got so frustrated with the chinaclone one guy had spending more time dealing with gas feed and gun issues, weird voltage spikes, etc. I figured it this way - do I want to spend my day building a project, or futzing with the welder?

I think the Miller 211 might be out of my price range. At $1200 new then I have to get the tank it will be close to $1500 when all is said and done. I dont believe I will use it enough to justify paying that much.

 

[GarageGuy89]

For what its worth, a lot of people giving advice on here are either welding for a living or think they are. You will usually get the answer of Miller/Lincoln or go home from them. There is nothing wrong with that, but most of us weekend warriors spend a couple hours a month welding...those Miller/Lincoln machines are top of the line made to run 10 hours straight 7 days a week in a fabrication setting. If you can afford that by all means go for it, all that is to be had is skills at that point.

However for the rest of us, I can't justify spending $2,000 on something that will get used a couple times a year. I have a hard time justifying a new impact driver...So we settle for an import machine with a good reputation that can put that weld down once a month. Anything is better than that pile of HF junk you currently have.

I only have experience with TIG and Stick machines so I don't have any recommendations on a MIG unit. Just know that there are machines out there for less if your not making money welding.

 

[D-train]

I have purchased a TIG from Eastwood and am happy with it and their service. As the O.P is in Brunswick OH, it looks like they are driveable to the Eastwood location in Ohio. (But I only did a quick look)
I had attended Eastwood's Saturday afternoon hands-on classes. They were worth the $30 for the novice. (definitely look at taking them if you have no other options, even if you don't purchase)
They do have a three year warranty on their machines. I have taken a couple of items back months after purchase with issues and no receipts, and they replaced no questions asked. ...one was a broken dial on my welding helmet.
Also, I figured out with the tanks... After purchasing the smallest one, each time I have gone in for a trade-in, the gas places tend to let you upgrade a single size without an upgrade cost. I think that I have gone up three sizes at no cost.

Again, a novice talking. (need to increase my post total also ;-) )

Good luck,

Mark

 

[pi_guy]

I have been welding since the 70's I have bought a number of machines all have been Miller. Have used numerous other machine at different locations. I recommend spending the extra for miller.
One item is with the Miller you do not have to relearn welding every time you start up machine. What I mean is I do not weld every week but when I do I need to be spot on. I do not need a fickle machine that is not happy with generator voltage or vibrated loose internally from traveling. I paid for a Dynasty with full kit in two years by welding on 7 race weekends each year.
The other point is parts are available for ever.
The item that seems to make GJ happy is you will get a better return when you go to sell it than most other brands.

 

[Stooge]

I dont have any experience with the Eastwood mig, but i thought ive heard mostly positives for it in that price range. My main hangup with the eastwood stuff is how many times i've heard of them either being dead on arrival/having a major issue right out of the box, or they die/malfunction early in life, without warning and supposedly it can be difficult to get replacement parts.

My miller 211 is a great all around machine, more expensive, but handles everything i need it for and i will never, not recommend it. The multi voltage plug is great as well, if you need to do some stuff away from the garage.If i was looking for a machine that would be mostly on sheet metal duty, for relatively short money, a hobart 140 is where i would be looking. Can be had for a few dollars under $500 and will do what you want it to and can handle slightly thicker stuff when the need arises.

 

[lis2323]

I have been welding since the 70's I have bought a number of machines all have been Miller. Have used numerous other machine at different locations. I recommend spending the extra for miller.
One item is with the Miller you do not have to relearn welding every time you start up machine. What I mean is I do not weld every week but when I do I need to be spot on. I do not need a fickle machine that is not happy with generator voltage or vibrated loose internally from traveling. I paid for a Dynasty with full kit in two years by welding on 7 race weekends each year.
The other point is parts are available for ever.
The item that seems to make GJ happy is you will get a better return when you go to sell it than most other brands.

^^^X2^^^. Resale is always an important factor. [emoji481]

 

[sberry]

There is nothing wrong with the step voltage machines, the box store Lincoln is very good as is the Hobart 140 on the low end. I ran a red 140 class the other day, very good.
I have a Hob 210, it is a little off between a couple taps but it's not on the bottom. It's also so minor that only someone that was really looking and knew would be able to find it, not a deal breaker.

 

[ducksface]

I see no difference in recommending a used potential flood car to a single clueless mom(insert stereotypical unknowing and harried buyer here) than I do recommending a potential flood Welder to a clueless inexperienced buyer.

What's the difference?

 

[pi_guy]

^^^X2^^^. Resale is always an important factor. [emoji481]

Nice setups...

 

[lis2323]

Nice setups...

Thank you. They were ALL purchased used. I'm definitely not a "brand snob". I do prefer quality though.

I have Lincoln welders also.

 

[sberry]

Ive been looking at some of the used machines in my area and found a few

Millermatic 135 for $475
Hobart Handler 210 MVP for $500

Couldn't find any Lincoln 100-SP's. You mentioned they were old. Do they make a current model?

The Hobart is a deal, you should worry about someone accusing you of stealing it.

 

[bczygan]

My setup:
Used Lincoln 3200HD 120V MIG $175 CL
Used gauge and hose $25 CL
Wire - Misc. flux core and regular .030 HF
Misc. consumables Tips etc.HD
Mig pliers HF
HF Vulcan hood $120
Gloves, apron, hammer etc HF
Used 330CF cylinder full of C25 $225 CL

Total $545 plus a bit

On order: Spindle for large spool and nozzle gel.
Needed: More scrap steel for practice and steel for projects.

Bill

 

[Lelandwelds]

You can not rank the entire past and current production of each mfg in a single unified block. Any mfg can make a winner, a loser, an also ran, and a polarizing quirky oddball. Best approach is to weld with it (or its twin).

Remember the small block Chevy? The 350 and 327 were qreat! Most versions of the 305 were dogs. The 302 and 383 are visiting the fringe of quirky. The 283 had a lot of heart but not enough grunt.

The mfg are competing against each other. (Duh!) They have designers or teams working on incremental improvements and cost reductions of existing products. They have others trying to build the better mousetrap or incorporate the latest tech. Some are quicker to market, some make missteps, or some raw materials or tech makes a big change in cost and changes the winners to or from losers. Customers needs change. ( when I was a kid, we built with channel iron and thick heavy plates or angle. Now, I use lots of square tubing, trusses, and "stressed skin" methods.)

Some of the Hobart mfg since the ITW acquisition are repackaged Miller's with cheaper cosmetics. Some are unique machines using parts from existing designs to meet a specific market segment or price point.

Some of the Lincolns are made for big boxes just to meet a price point. Some are just given a new name or cover like mattresses at competing retailers.

All mfg play a bit of the "ratings are liars" game. Miller rates all duty cycles @ 104°F. Others use 78°F. Which machine come closer to performing as promised without overheating?

 

[speed bump]

The Eastwood will likely do fine, lots of great reviews on this forum. Having owned and used a half dozen different mig welders the most important things in my (albeit hobbyist) experience is gun size and arc characteristics you are comfortable with.

Bottles are a buy once, cry once kind of thing. For the hobbyist welder you will likely get less than 1 refill a year and since all your want to do is bodywork splatter and penetration control make C25 a no-brainer.

Finally before you start on down this road remember, by the time you have finished you will have spent several thousand dollars on support equipment for your welding. Spending an extra $1-200 on your welder will quickly be forgotten.

 

[Lelandwelds]

it has an infinitely variable voltage adjustment, that is very important when welding thinner stuff.
When welding 1/8" and under, you really need to be able to "dial in" the voltage,, cant do that with a stepped voltage adjustment.


Slack

Mig stands for Metal Inert Gas which indicates the shielding gas is inert. Inert means that it does not react. CO2 is highly reactive. It is a cost saving mode utilised by people not bright enough to apply the best methods for the best outcome.

Using CO2 is the equivalent of using a 6010 or 6011 electrode on sheet metal.
CO2 is meant for extra deep penetration in heavy plate.

Anyone who advises full CO2 as a shielding gas for automotive sheet metal is completely talking through their ****. Am I being subtle enough here?


For sheet metal, .024” ER 70 S-6 wire with C25 shield gas is a good place to start.
Oz

Some mfg use rheostats because they are a cheaper way to build. (Like edgewound aluminum bar transformers). Voltage is a very coarse adjustment that flattens your bead. Wire feed speed is your amperage control. ( more amps = thicker metal)

I use 75/25 almost exclusively. Miller has built several machines (Sidekick, Passport, Mm200 for example) specifically to use co2 on 16 to 22 gauge sheetmetal. It takes some engineering and a bit extra dough to use the cheap gas.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Thank you. They were ALL purchased used. I'm definitely not a "brand snob". I do prefer quality though.

I have Lincoln welders also.

Actually, you prefer world class quality. I am a huge fan of the XMT and the MM252. Do you pulse mig? Are you building a Swingarc?

 

[lis2323]

Actually, you prefer world class quality. I am a huge fan of the XMT and the MM252. Do you pulse mig? Are you building a Swingarc?

Since this photo was taken I sold the 350P (with Cobra push pull gun) to a good friend who had a big aluminum job do do. His older Milller 251 with spool gun was getting "tired".

So NO pulse now. I'm hesitant to look for an Optima pendant to enable pulse with the XMT as I heard so many negative reviews regarding setup.

Swingarc would be really cool but not at this time. I have a suitcase feeder (LN 25) which works fine for my (non paying ) fun projects.

I'm just a retired farmer puttering around in his shop with an almost embarrassing amount of gear.

 

[slackdaddy1]

I have a Hobart 210 MVP, I bought it for heavier metal 3/16 and up on Gooseneck trailer repairs,, it does "good" at that. But it CAN NOT touch the Lincoln Sp-100 (or SP-125, 135) for sheet metal,, you really "need" the variable voltage control to fine tune for great thin metal welds.

But be aware, do not buy a "Tapped" machine, Lincoln really made a mess making machines with the same name but vastly different voltage controls.

The Eastwood may serve you well, But remember, they are imported, re-badged machines, What are you going to do, mail it back each time you have an issue. I have 5 LWS that I can walk in and get Lincoln/miller parts.

Ive been looking at some of the used machines in my area and found a few

Millermatic 135 for $475
Hobart Handler 210 MVP for $500

Couldn't find any Lincoln 100-SP's. You mentioned they were old. Do they make a current model?

 

[bczygan]

I hope you are first in line for that Hobart. He had a lot of responses.

Bill

 

[kkroger]

Hobart 210MVP is the best bang for the buck...