Help with new shop

[rockcrawler]

Well, we finally signed a contract for our land (1.8 acres) and the house we are building. The house builder will also be building a metal building (shop) that will be roughly 1,600 sqft. I'm trying to figure out what the most cost effective size would be and the best layout. I know there is something about beam and sheet sizes you need to use to eliminate excess waste. I have a friend that has a 40 x 40 and I like the size. He says he wished that it was rectangular instead.

Here is what I've come up with so far.

40' x 40' x 14'

Brick front (required by deed restrictions - no HOA though - NEVER AGAIN!!)

4/12 pitch Galvalume roof (builder choice)

4" / 3,500 psi concrete post tension slab with perimeter beams and 2 cross beams 10" wide x 24" deep (builders standard slab) Should be adequate for my lift. It requires 4" / 3,000 psi.

2 - 12' x 10' insulated doors (my choice)

Foam insulated roof and walls (builder does this on all his shops)

1 - 3' x 7' door (builder choice)

50 amp / 240V electrical service (standard)

4 - Duplex recepticles (standard)

4 - 8' strip lights (what the builder includes) I have more 8' lights than I'll even need, so I'll have lots of lights.

2 - Light switches (standard)

$48,800

My plans is to have both garage doors on the front - one door on the right where I will park my boat, 1 door on the left where my two-post lift will be. The man door will probably be on the left side of the building in the front corner. I know that I will need to be aware of where the post-tension tendons run so they don't get touched during the lift install. Does a 40 x 40 make sense, or does a rectangular building make more sense? There a ton of other things I'd like to do, but none of them are in the budget.

 

[Spook001]

I’ve got a 40x40x12. I like it, not sure why a rectangular building would be better.

 

[rockcrawler]

I’ve got a 40x40x12. I like it, not sure why a rectangular building would be better.

Thanks Spook.

 

[matt_i]

50A service seems marginal to me. It says to me they are doing direct burial wire and not conduit. I'd go for a 90A service. A couple of air conditioners will eat up that amperage right quick.

The insulation and metal construction also say its a "red iron" building to me. There isn't really any magic if you ask me about sizes like there is with a wood framed building and sheets are multiples of 8 ft.

 

[rockcrawler]

50A service seems marginal to me. It says to me they are doing direct burial wire and not conduit. I'd go for a 90A service. A couple of air conditioners will eat up that amperage right quick.

The insulation and metal construction also say its a "red iron" building to me. There isn't really any magic if you ask me about sizes like there is with a wood framed building and sheets are multiples of 8 ft.

Matt, thanks for the suggestion regarding the electrical service. I'll speak with him about it. As of right now, the house and shop have taken the budget. So, any additions to the shop like A/C, heat, etc. will have to come at a much later date, if at all. I'm blessed enough to even get the shop in its basic form. But, I hope someday to get into learning and doing some welding. So, I'll need to make sure the electrical service will at least support that.

 

[MushCreek]

+1 on more power. My welder alone is on a 50A breaker. I have 100A in the barn, and I worry about it being enough. Since I'm the only one working out there, it should be OK. But if I were to run A/C and a water heater, the welder might push it over the edge.

 

[readhead]

50 amps is not enough. When you say metal building, what does that mean? Red iron, tube steel, weld up etc.

 

[JamesW84]

Dimensions would kinda depend on what you intend to do or want to do. If you wanted to park 2 trucks back to back or pull a truck with trailer in, then you might need longer than 40, which would mean going like 36x44 or 32x48.

I agree that 90 amps would be better, and likely wouldn't cost much more, but if you can only do 50 amps, you can cycle tools. Turn the AC off while welding or whatever.

Doesn't seem like many outlets for 1600 sq ft. Put some 240v outlets also.

It has been recommended many times, and I took the advice of drawing it out on graph paper to scale and deciding what you plan to put in there and get a couple of layout options. Then you can decide where you might want outlets, maybe different dimensions or door layouts.

 

[ckyle29]

My 30 X 40 is rectangular. Just for reference, I have 10 duplex, 3 four-plex and one 240 for a total of 33 outlets. For lights, I have 12 8-footers with T5 bulbs, along with task lighting on the bench. 100 amps.

 

[rockcrawler]

50 amps is not enough. When you say metal building, what does that mean? Red iron, tube steel, weld up etc.

Should be iron beams. Not sure what brand they will be using, but it should be similar to what Mueller makes.

 

[rockcrawler]

Dimensions would kinda depend on what you intend to do or want to do. If you wanted to park 2 trucks back to back or pull a truck with trailer in, then you might need longer than 40, which would mean going like 36x44 or 32x48.

I agree that 90 amps would be better, and likely wouldn't cost much more, but if you can only do 50 amps, you can cycle tools. Turn the AC off while welding or whatever.

Doesn't seem like many outlets for 1600 sq ft. Put some 240v outlets also.

It has been recommended many times, and I took the advice of drawing it out on graph paper to scale and deciding what you plan to put in there and get a couple of layout options. Then you can decide where you might want outlets, maybe different dimensions or door layouts.

I'll speak with the electrician about adding more outlets plus a 240V or two. I just plan on using it for boat storage, a work area and a spot for a lift. Nothing super fancy.

 

[JimH74]

Agree about the power. I have 200 amp to mine, a 30x40x12. I do some woodworking. Have heat and ac, both electric. Someday, I would like to learn to weld. Much cheaper having the power available to start, than to retrofit the amount of power needed. Of course, I may have over built, but it's GJ.

 

[fourjeepin]

I'll speak with the electrician about adding more outlets plus a 240V or two. I just plan on using it for boat storage, a work area and a spot for a lift. Nothing super fancy.

You can always add more outlets and lights later. Most imp is to make sure your panel and input is sized to allow for easy additions later.

 

[rockcrawler]

you can always add more outlets and lights later. Most imp is to make sure your panel and input is sized to allow for easy additions later.

10-4

 

[rockcrawler]

Besides the items already mentioned, is there anything else that I can do at build time to set myself up for the future? Although I’m having to do things at a very basic level at this point, I still want to build it in a way that gives me the opportunity to do more later.

 

[dw1]

Besides the items already mentioned, is there anything else that I can do at build time to set myself up for the future? Although I’m having to do things at a very basic level at this point, I still want to build it in a way that gives me the opportunity to do more later.

If the 50 amp service to your barn is the budget now, have your electrician run PVC conduit to your barn (dig the ditch once) you can always pull it out and replace it with bigger wire later on and wont have to re-dig anything, also a spare conduit for ethernet ect would be nice also, not much $$ to add the pvc conduits now.

 

[rockcrawler]

If the 50 amp service to your barn is the budget now, have your electrician run PVC conduit to your barn (dig the ditch once) you can always pull it out and replace it with bigger wire later on and wont have to re-dig anything, also a spare conduit for ethernet ect would be nice also, not much $$ to add the pvc conduits now.

I’ve already planned to have a conduit run from the house to the shop for Ethernet and anything else I plan to run out there.

 

[bradysdad]

Two things which stand out to me from a pure construction perspective, are the power and concrete. Power has been discussed already. I would install 200A service during the build and call it a day. Worry about extra outlets/lights later but at least you will have the foundation you need from an electrical perspective. 50A is light.

I would also add an extra inch or even two, to the thickness of the slab. It shouldn’t be that much more to pour at the time of construction and it it something which cannot be added at a later date. Considering most “4 inch” slabs are not consistently 4” throughout, would be money well spent so you don’t have issues down the road.

Good luck! Exciting project...

 

[rockcrawler]

Two things which stand out to me from a pure construction perspective, are the power and concrete. Power has been discussed already. I would install 200A service during the build and call it a day. Worry about extra outlets/lights later but at least you will have the foundation you need from an electrical perspective. 50A is light.

I would also add an extra inch or even two, to the thickness of the slab. It shouldn’t be that much more to pour at the time of construction and it it something which cannot be added at a later date. Considering most “4 inch” slabs are not consistently 4” throughout, would be money well spent so you don’t have issues down the road.

Good luck! Exciting project...

I’ll look into both, but my budget is getting really skinny. Thanks.

 

[rockcrawler]

Well, after playing with Mueller's 3-D configuration tool and a confirmation phone call to them, it looks like I will not be able to do the 40x40 in the setup that I wanted. It looks like I might be building a 45x35 instead. The framing will require the doors to be too far apart in the 40x40 configuration. I feel that it would be wasted space. It makes more sense to me to have the doors closer together and have the extra working area to one side. With the 45x35 the rollup doors can be 3 feet apart which will give me about 15 feet for a work area (toolbox, bench, sink, parts washer, etc.). I included a couple of pics to show what I'm talking about.

 

[larry_g]

AS you put in the electrical give some thought to how your going to get power out of the box and to the various areas of the shop when you want to add circuits later. I made a chase above my box and screwed a cover onto it. Now I can remove the cover, run wires, and replace the cover without disturbing any wall board requiring repair and paint. Just think of a few things that will allow easy modifications in the future will go a long way toward getting things done later. One thing I did was put some switched outlets in the ceiling so I could later add light fixtures, or move the fixtures as necessary to light up different work areas.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[larry_g]

Well, after playing with Mueller's 3-D configuration tool and a confirmation phone call to them, it looks like I will not be able to do the 40x40 in the setup that I wanted. It looks like I might be building a 45x35 instead. The framing will require the doors to be too far apart in the 40x40 configuration. I feel that it would be wasted space. It makes more sense to me to have the doors closer together and have the extra working area to one side. With the 45x35 the rollup doors can be 3 feet apart which will give me about 15 feet for a work area (toolbox, bench, sink, parts washer, etc.). I included a couple of pics to show what I'm talking about.

In your second design, I followed some of the same thinking to have a work area off to the side. Works good, however I got the OH door to close to the sidewall and it prevents storage or opening doors on rigs when so close. I'd recommend 3-4' between the door and the sidewall.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[rockcrawler]

In your second design, I followed some of the same thinking to have a work area off to the side. Works good, however I got the OH door to close to the sidewall and it prevents storage or opening doors on rigs when so close. I'd recommend 3-4' between the door and the sidewall.

lg
no neat sig line

The OH door on the right is 3' from the wall and there is 3 feet between both doors. My bass boat will go in the right door and the lift will be inside the left door. The doors are 12'W x 10'H and the lift will be 145" (12.08') at its widest. My boat is 8' 4" wide. So, there should be plenty of room between the boat/wall and boat/lift. One thing I'm debating is where to put the man door. I'm assuming in the far left corner. Corners are usually wasted space in a shop and I want to keep the walls clear for as much distance as I can. Here is a sketch I made. Each box is equivalent to 1 foot. Ignore the kennel stuff. That is just something we are thinking of doing at a later date.

 

[Homebody]

Personally I'd put the lift on the right side.
Then if you wanted more space for some reason (party, large project, etc) you simply pull the boat out and have the whole center section combined with the work-space side without being interrupted by the lift.

Oh, and 100 amp minimum.

Congrats and Good Luck!

 

[rockcrawler]

Personally I'd put the lift on the right side.
Then if you wanted more space for some reason (party, large project, etc) you simply pull the boat out and have the whole center section combined with the work-space side without being interrupted by the lift.

Oh, and 100 amp minimum.

Congrats and Good Luck!

I thought about that at one time, but I just don't want to have to pull out the boat almost every time I put something on the lift.

 

[larry_g]

In your pencil drawing your deceiving yourself with near zero width walls.... Aren't they really near 6-8" thick taking your 3' down to 2.5' or less? When getting this close inches matter. I thought I had plenty too and learned I thought wrong.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[rockcrawler]

In your pencil drawing your deceiving yourself with near zero width walls.... Aren't they really near 6-8" thick taking your 3' down to 2.5' or less? When getting this close inches matter. I thought I had plenty too and learned I thought wrong.

lg
no neat sig line

Good point. I guess I was just assuming that the footage was internal.

 

[My Old Tools]

Look at my build and consider a loft area. Other than that and more power, you have a good plan and a decent price.

 

[rockcrawler]

Look at my build and consider a loft area. Other than that and more power, you have a good plan and a decent price.

Can't find your build. I might add a loft later, but can't afford it now.

 

[My Old Tools]

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=365026&highlight=build