Help with old lathe

[Jason280]

So, good friend of mine is giving me a lathe. It was his dad's, and he's decided he would rather give it to someone who will use it, versus it sitting in storage forever.

I actually saw the lathe about a year or so ago, but it was covered up with a bunch of stuff (and don't remember much about it). He sent me a few pics, so this is what I have so far.

Any information on the lathe? Any guesses on an age? He is not sure what all he still has for it, what parts are still available?

I want to clean it up, get it back in good working order, and eventually give it back to him (once he has a place for it). Am I getting in over my head?

 

[paulsomlo]

9" South Bend (as indicated by last picture), built sometime after 1938. There may be a stack of gears for threading and power feed amidst all that stuff, they'll look alot like the ones attached to the left hand side of the machine. There may also be a threading dial around, since it looks like the pin that it hangs on is still in the apron. There's a serial number stamped into the bed - its at the tailstock end, on the flat between the front carriage v-way and the flat tailstock way, near the two screw heads for the right hand leadscrew support. Get me that number and I'll tell you the age. Lots of parts available, both aftermarket and used, don't expect much from the current owner of South Bend. You might peruse the South Bend forum over on Practicalmachinist.com, just about any question that's ever been asked about that lathe has been answered there.

 

[lilredex]

When you go to S/B on PM look for Paula's 9" restoration...a thing of beauty.

 

[930dreamer]

That will be a nice resto project, x2 on cruising the PM and YouTube for video's.

 

[Maui]

Liledex, You are spot on. Here's a link for Paula's South Bend lathe restoration project:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/1947-model-9a-128005/index16.html

The finished lathe is truly a thing of beauty.

Maui

 

[Jason280]

Finally got the lathe home and in the shop...

Best I can tell, the lathe is mostly complete. Its missing any extra change gears for the feed screw, but everything else seems to be there. It has a 3 and 4-jaw chuck, all the guards, and a couple different tool posts. Serial number indicates roughly a 1946 year of manufacture.










The lathe has a few issues, but I am not sure how serious they may or may not be.

First, most pressing issue. One of the main gears has a chipped tooth:



I was able to get it straightened out:



Its really not an issue, unless the low gear reduction is in place. It still works, except you can "hear" it through rotation. How much of a potential problem is this, and are replacements available?

Second issue, similar to the first:




Once again, easy to source a replacement?

Final issue, although its probably a little more simple than the previous, is the electric motor. Best I can tell in my research, stock motor should be around 1760 RPM....this one is 3450 RPM. It seemed way too fast when I started playing around with it, but wasn't sure. Should the stock motor be 1760ish?

Also, how do I determine if this lathe has poured babbit bearings?

I'd like to get the lathe back as close to 100% as possible, but I am concerned whether costs are going to outpace value. Its a really neat old lathe, and I would love to be able to use it. However, its my only lathe at this point, and I am curious if the money would be better spent on a "newer" model.

 

[yaidunno]

One of the biggest benefits of the SB9 is the plentiful quantity of replacement parts on ebay. The damaged gears will both be available there. Running it in the low speed with the gear in the condition it is in will place accelerated wear on the small gear that drives it. There is also the potential for shearing the damaged tooth off under load. I'd strongly suggest fixing it before running it as is.

If you remove the split nut on the headstock tube, you should be able to determine if the bearings are babbot or brass. Keep in mind that this is also how you adjust the backlash, so it will need to be reset.

Whether or not to restore it will mainly be a factor of how much time you want to devote to the project. You will never make profit or be ahead in doing so, but you will have a very nice working lathe that will come with a great deal of pride at the end of the day. I see rusty, possibly worn ways, so that would tend to rule out a high precision machine. Regarding the machine itself, it is a lower level model, lacking the quick change gear box, large handwheel dials, and any real attachments. That said, there is still no replacement for a lathe when you need one.

One other note: Realistically, given the belt drive, lack of rigidity, low power, and lack of actual spindle bearings, these machine are limited to the size of the work piece being turned. Just because it can fit a 9" diameter piece between the ways does not mean it can efficiently remove material from it. If you only intend on spinning up small parts, it will be a great asset to have.

I'd clean it up some and get the replacement parts (and possibly motor?) to make it useable. Then, use it for a while. If its determined to be unsuited for your needs, sell it whole, or part it out on ebay. In pristine condition, both cosmetically and operationally, i'd value it at $800-1000 with a nicely made stand and period correct motor.

 

[My Old Tools]

South Bend didn't use babbit. It will be either bronze shell or cast iron. War years were generally cast iron.

 

[paulsomlo]

You can find all the gears on ebay. There's also someone over on Practicalmachinist.com that repairs gears, I think he goes by the screen name "Finegrain". A full set of change gears might set you back up to $200. The gear that's missing multiple teeth appears to be a 72/18 idler. For now, you could move the 80 tooth idler into it's place, and you would have some power feed, although not as fine.

Yes, I believe the motor should be 1750 rpm. The spindle speed should be limited at around 800 rpm. Measure the pulleys, do the math, that'll confirm it.

The lathe does not have babbit bearings. They used either bronze inserts, or the bearings are cast iron, integral to the headstock. And my bet would be cast iron. There are only two places where babbit was used on that lathe - the tailstock end leadscrew bracket and where the hinge pin attaches to the gear cover.

Given that's a front oiler headstock, there are felt capillary wicks that carry spindle oil from a reservoir that's filled by those two gits oilers, to the spindle bearing journals. Given the overall condition of the lathe, I'd say those wicks need replacing. I've refurbished two 9" SB's now and in both, the wicks weren't even touching the spindle. And it's pretty important that the spindle get oil to it.

You might pick up one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rebuild-Book-Parts-Kit-for-9-South-Bend-Lathe-Model-C-All-New-/150437633842?hash=item2306c81f32:gHIAAOSw9NdXrcsF
If you want to forgo the manual, you can save $20 and just get the rebuild kit - all the info in the manual is scattered around the internet.

 

[nine4gmc]

The second issue looks more concerning than the first. There is a place that sells gears, you just need to figure out the dimensions of the broken/missing gears. Great score!

 

[Jason280]

The gear that's missing multiple teeth appears to be a 72/18 idler. For now, you could move the 80 tooth idler into it's place, and you would have some power feed, although not as fine.

Thanks for the information!