help with PB Swiss

[measuredtwice]

Trying to decide if I want the PB Swiss Insider and PB Swiss bit box or if I should just pick out bits individually from Wera and Felo. On Amazon, the PB Swiss Insider reviews aren't very good but it seems like everyone on the interwebz is obsessed with PB Swiss. I don't get it. Is it the colorful nano coating that attracts so much attention? I know shiny-itis is strong--haha!

In many cases, Wera bits look better on paper. For example... Wera has Torx bits w/ holding function, Torx bits w/ wedge, Square-plus bits, hex-plus bits. All of those seem engineered to perform better on paper. The German tool review guy seems to like them.

PB Swiss slotted bits have parallel tips. But I have cheap basic slotted bits from Felo that have parallel tips though it's not mentioned in their catalog.

Are PB Swiss bits better in some other way that I'm missing?

 

[2ndGearRubber]

IMO PB Swiss tools are of poor quality. My $50 set of picks snap tips so often I don't even bother with them anymore. They are very sharp, but HF picks are much longer lived. I was poking some rust around a cotter pin 2 days ago, SNAP. Just light scraping. My PB Swiss punches have a beautiful satin finish. They seem of similar or slightly worse quality than Mayhew, which is cheaper.


I bought into the hype - I think they're junk. Didn't use any bit drivers of screwdrivers; but I can promise I won't have an opportunity too.

 

[Dave455]

The attraction of PB Swiss is simple quality. Their screwdrivers, bits, hex keys and punches are the best out there.

I have used bits from all the major makers, including Wiha, Wera, and Apex, and have used them industrially for repetitive assembly work. The PB Swiss outlast every one of them. No question.

Wera bits might look better on paper, but I’ve broken through a box load of em on one job, before using just one PB Swiss to complete it! The hollow ground tips of the PB Swiss drivers and bits are to the Swiss (VSM?) spec. I happen to like them, but it’s the Swiss spec that defines this, not PB. Stahlwille make drivers to the same spec for sale there.

PB make a huge range of bit drivers, interchangeable blade screwdrivers and so on, of which the ‘insider’ is about the cheapest. It’s designed more as a sort of ‘homeowner’ tool than a bit of professional kit. You can’t really buy one of these, and complain that it’s not as solid as their heavy duty multi blade driver. It won’t be!

Why not just buy a couple of bits and try them?

 

[measuredtwice]

Thank you for the replies, guys. Two opposing view points --I like it. I like to hear a lot of opinions. I look forward to more!

...PB make a huge range of bit drivers, interchangeable blade screwdrivers and so on, of which the ‘insider’ is about the cheapest. It’s designed more as a sort of ‘homeowner’ tool than a bit of professional kit. You can’t really buy one of these, and complain that it’s not as solid as their heavy duty multi blade driver. It won’t be!

Why not just buy a couple of bits and try them?

@Dave455

Aren't all the PB bits the same whether they are bought separately or as part of a package with the Insider? Is it only the bit holder that is a "homeowner tool"?

I was thinking of buying the Insider to try the bits before buying the bit box. Buying a few bits individually would cost about the same.

 

[Dave455]

Here are some pictures, if it helps.

The bits shown live in my ‘go bag’. They are about 15 years old (as can be seen by the lack of coloured TiN coating) and have seen a fair amount of use (not abuse). Very little wear can be seen. They have, however, only been used in the correct size screw heads, have been wiped down after use, and given the occasional clean.

The bit drivers shown are the ones I use the most. The non ratcheting style is probably my most used PB Swiss tool. I have several of these, on my home and work benches, and in my ‘go bag’. This is the sort of tool that PB do best. You’re not buying anything fancy, or caveman proof, just good honest tools!

The sprag clutch driver is probably my next favourite PB tool, and sees a lot of use, but this is a big hefty tool compared to the ‘insider’!

 

[Dave455]

@Dave455

Aren't all the PB bits the same whether they are bought separately or as part of a package with the Insider? Is it only the bit holder that is a "homeowner tool"?
.

Yes, they are, so yes, my comments are really aimed at the handle. It’s not a bad tool - I sometimes keep the short one in my jacket pocket, but not built like the rest of the range!

If it works out as a cheap way to get a set of bits then then getting one is not a bad idea.

Personally, I just buy the bits I need, but I’m quite well served for PB here in the U.K. and can get anything ‘next day’!

I also believe PB is a lot more costly in the U.S. than here. I can buy a set of 5 PB punches for £35, Snap On (admittedly with an extra punch) are £150! I might not be so keen on PB if the prices were reversed!

 

[measuredtwice]

Thanks. I will be using the bits mostly with my Snap-On ratcheting screwdriver. I've mostly used Zephyr bits.

I'm located in the USA and PB Swiss prices are high. Shipping is overpriced also. Buying the Insider w/ 8 bits ($40 shipped) would be pretty close to the same price as buying 8 bits ($25.40 plus $14.31 shipping).

 

[marlinspike]

I have Wiha, Felo, and PB Swiss. To me, PB Swiss is not worth what they charge here EXCEPT for the flat head screwdrivers since they have cabinet tips.

 

[Wamsutta]

I don't get it. Is it the colorful nano coating that attracts so much attention?

It's the PB Swiss SwissGrip screwdriver handle that gets my attention.

Grippy and Comfy.

 

[measuredtwice]

I have Wiha, Felo, and PB Swiss. To me, PB Swiss is not worth what they charge here EXCEPT for the flat head screwdrivers since they have cabinet tips.

The cabinet tips do look good on the fixed slotted screwdrivers. Hmmm. Do I really need more fixed screwdrivers?? Haha!

The bits don't look special though. The profile looks about the same as less expensive Felo bits.

PB Swiss

Dewalt on the left and three Felo on the right.

 

[measuredtwice]

It's the PB Swiss SwissGrip screwdriver handle that gets my attention.

Grippy and Comfy.

Thanks!

 

[CallumRD1]

I love my PB Swiss screwdrivers. I have a full set of Phillips 0-3, Slotted 1-6, Torx T8-T25, and Pozi 0-3 screwdrivers as well as a short Insider 3 ratcheting bit screwdriver. I've found the bits to be the best I've yet used. The real standout tools, though, are the fixed blade slotted screwdrivers. The hollow ground tips with relieved corners are phenomenal.

 

[JBH]

Trying to decide if I want the PB Swiss Insider and PB Swiss bit box or if I should just pick out bits individually from Wera and Felo.

There are two different Insiders. The early one has an annoying screw cap bit magazine. The newer one has a better bit magazine design that flips out. The ratcheting version is especially excellent, with very low backdrag and smooth action, like a Koken ratchet. If you’re just looking for a compact-but-not-stubby bit handle, Felo’s Bit Boy is really great, though I don’t know of a current US source for it and the bit magazine design is not ideal. (Carbide Processors lists it on their website, albeit as out of stock.) Würth also has a nice one, but I think it’s only offered in a set. The PB Swiss stubby bit driver is really nice.

As for bits, I have Felo, Elora, Heyco, PB Swiss, Schröder, Toptul, USAG, Wera, Wiha, Witte, and Würth. The ones that get the most use are Felo (hand) and Wiha Terminator (drill). That has more to do with the cases than the bits, though Felo bits are great. The yellow Felo case is tops; just replace PH and PZ dupes with square 0-3.

The Wiha Terminator Pocket Pack also a great compact kit to stick in a drill case, missing only slotted bits.

I have Wiha, Felo, and PB Swiss. To me, PB Swiss is not worth what they charge here EXCEPT for the flat head screwdrivers since they have cabinet tips.

The real standout tools, though, are the fixed blade slotted screwdrivers. The hollow ground tips with relieved corners are phenomenal.

I mostly agree with this: I’d add the ratcheting bit driver. The rest is nice enough, but IMO not enough nicer to warrant the pricing.

That said, PB Swiss offers some bits I haven’t seen from anyone else that one might find useful. For example, this 95mm long 2.5mm slotted bit.

https://www.shop.pbtools.us/Long-1-4-Slotted-Bit-size-0-80mm-long-C6L-1000-80.htm

 

[measuredtwice]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. Those boxed sets look nice.

I got side tracked with the fixed blade slotted drivers. But one Amazon review said they smelled like vomit. I did a search and it's apparently a topic that's come up before. Not sure that I want to mess with the handles. Last thing I need is to buy hundreds of dollars of tools that get thrown out because the wife thinks they stink up the garage.

The metal bits should be fine though.

From the PB Swiss website: http://www.pbswisstools.com/en/quality-hand-tools-qht/screwdrivers/classic.html

The high quality transparent CAB* material is extremely impact proof, resistant to oil and petrol and recyclable.
Since the modified natural material can develop an unpleasant smell in airtight boxes and drawers, we mix in a subtle vanilla aroma for its neutralization (gradual implementation).

* Cellulose Acetate Butyrate

So maybe throw in some vanilla ice in those toolboxes!

I perceive the smell as dog **** rather than vomit.
Before the Internet, there was no easy way to learn that the smell was normal. I looked all over for the dog **** in my first toolbox, assuming that the smell had seeping into the handles.



It doesn't neutralize the smell. It just adds to it, and leads to a mental association. When I smell a pine forest, I think latrine.

 

[JBH]

I think the smell issue only applies to the old fashioned handles. The Swissgrip ones don’t smell IME.

 

[measuredtwice]

I think the smell issue only applies to the old fashioned handles. The Swissgrip ones don’t smell IME.

Ahhh... That makes sense... the Swissgrip handles are Santoprene instead of CAB. Thanks!

tempted...

 

[Steve_P]

I think PB is overrated and way overpriced. I bought an assortment of PB stuff years ago and returned it all. Tiny handled screwdrivers that smelled like vomit. Ok, they fixed that but what were they thinking to even sell that? I don't doubt that they use top quality steel as lots here rave about durability, but the price is high vs Wiha. I do have some PB punches and they seem ok but I haven't used them much. People also rave about the slotted screwdriver tips, and that's obviously the right way to machine them, but how often do most of us use a slotted screwdriver these days? I've gone with Wiha for drivers and bits and no complaints; durability is awesome, price is reasonable, wide availability in the US.

 

[NC Rick]

If I omit prying and hammering, it a valid point, I don’t use flat screwdrivers much at all

I kinda think I wanna set though. I have a big of Brownells gunsmiths drivers and it is surprising to me how much they have come out and saved the day on some specialized fastener.

 

[dutchgray]

They put Vanilla in the CAB handles, it hides the vomit smell for a while at least, the reason why CAB is used is it is very tough and impact resistant, it also was most commonly used by American screwdriver
manufacturers, more unusual to find it on European ones. If you don't keep them shut up in a draw or box the stink doesn't build up and you don't really notice it as much.

 

[jimmyin3D]

Pb Swiss have been the best fixed handle drivers, punches, bits, and hex keys I’ve owned. Price may be a deterrent but imo worth the durability and the precise fit.

My swissgrip handles don’t smell, I think that was an issue for old stock acetate type handles years ago.

If you really want to try grab a few bits off amazon UK or DE or better yet precision screwdrivers. It seems quality diminishes for smaller tools, but PB keeps the quality excellent.

 

[M6erfan]

I have a set of the PB Swiss "Classic" (CAB) handled drivers. They smell like vanilla.

 

[measuredtwice]

If you really want to try grab a few bits off amazon UK or DE or better yet precision screwdrivers.

Have you actually ordered PB Swiss from Amazon UK or DE? If you know of good deals, please link them.

The stuff shipped by Amazon.de all says "This item does not ship to the United States." Too bad since it's less than half the price dealers are charging in the USA... like 30USD in Germany and 69USD in the USA.

I didn't see any good deals from 3rd party sellers that ship to the USA.

 

[Reed Prince]

Have you actually ordered PB Swiss from Amazon UK or DE? If you know of good deals, please link them.

In the past I've bought from Werk10 in Germany. https://www.werk10.com/

On May 1st I bought these on eBay from Israel.

I have no idea how long they will take to get here, but I don't expect them for a while.

 

[Skin]

IMO PB Swiss tools are of poor quality. My $50 set of picks snap tips so often I don't even bother with them anymore. They are very sharp, but HF picks are much longer lived. I was poking some rust around a cotter pin 2 days ago, SNAP. Just light scraping. My PB Swiss punches have a beautiful satin finish. They seem of similar or slightly worse quality than Mayhew, which is cheaper.


I bought into the hype - I think they're junk. Didn't use any bit drivers of screwdrivers; but I can promise I won't have an opportunity too.

There was a member here that snapped the tip off a screwdriver the first time he used it. Maybe its a good thing I've never bought any of their stuff.

 

[poppakap]

There was a member here that snapped the tip off a screwdriver the first time he used it. Maybe its a good thing I've never bought any of their stuff.

Everything I have from them is tip top shelf

 

[seber]

The Ryobi set is about 1/10 of the price and has worked for me just fine. Bits are pretty simple things. Even perfect accuracy is only good for the first few screws. After that, wear makes every brand equal. The real difference is temper. In my opinion, the harder the better. I'd rather break an occasional bit than have them wear out in short order. Cheaper bits tend to be harder.

 

[measuredtwice]

In the past I've bought from Werk10 in Germany. https://www.werk10.com/

On May 1st I bought these on eBay from Israel.

I have no idea how long they will take to get here, but I don't expect them for a while.

Thanks! I'll check out the links.

There was a member here that snapped the tip off a screwdriver the first time he used it. Maybe its a good thing I've never bought any of their stuff.

I saw a photo of a broken PB bit I don't remember where I saw it. ...Maybe I saw it on Amazon reivews.

The Ryobi set is about 1/10 of the price and has worked for me just fine. Bits are pretty simple things. Even perfect accuracy is only good for the first few screws. After that, wear makes every brand equal. The real difference is temper. In my opinion, the harder the better. I'd rather break an occasional bit than have them wear out in short order. Cheaper bits tend to be harder.

Haven't tried the bits from Ryobi. The 55 piece Ryobi set is on sale for $3 at Home Depot. That's 55 bits for the price of one from PB Swiss--Haha!

 

[cbracer]

I've got plenty of PB swiss stuff, and it's very very good. Their bits and screw drivers are the longest lasting, best fitting ones around. I like their ratcheting screwdrivers also. With that said, there are couple of negative sides to PB Swiss:
1 - stuck buying from US distributors that jack the price 30%
2 - screw driver handles all seem to be 1-2 sizes smaller than most others
3 - yes their picks are brittle so don't pry on them
4 - the Santoprene is nice in your hand, but it gets dirty and isn't fun to clean
5 - personally don't like bar codes on my tools

 

[measuredtwice]

Here's the photo of the damaged bits that I saw on Amazon reviews. Several bent and one broke. Since it's a review of the PB Swiss "Twister" ratchet driver, it would seem they broke while being used in a hand tool (not a power tool)

PB Swiss Tools PB 8510R-100 Set Twister - 100 mm shaft

And here's what the reviewer wrote:

If I could give it zero starts I would. I bought this along with the extra 30 but set for my boyfriend for Christmas because it was supposibly as good if not better than the snap on one and I literally just opened it a second ago to use it for the first time to remove interior screws on a car and 3 of the bits bent and 1 broke clear off. What avery expensive one disappointment.

 

[cbracer]

LOL, seriously he must of been prying a bit on the bit that broke. I only see one bent and one broke, where are the other two bent ones? I have snapped the end off a 0 flat blade PB screwdriver, but I was prying with it so of coarse it snapped. Their steel is very strong, but that also means more on the brittle side, so it's not impossible. But I sincerely believe they are the best bits I've ever used. I'm a believer.

 

[jimmyin3D]

LOL, seriously he must of been prying a bit on the bit that broke. I only see one bent and one broke, where are the other two bent ones? I have snapped the end off a 0 flat blade PB screwdriver, but I was prying with it so of coarse it snapped. Their steel is very strong, but that also means more on the brittle side, so it's not impossible. But I sincerely believe they are the best bits I've ever used. I'm a believer.

Same here. Best fitment, I actually enjoy using my screwdrivers and bits now. If you think it’s not worth it don’t do it. But if you do there’s also ToolLady.com that is a PB Swiss distributor and their prices are pretty good.

 

[Grant Gunderson]

I pretty much own just about everything pbswiss makes. Picked almost all of it up cheap (relatively speaking) on work assignments in Switzerland. It’s all top quality stuff. Especially there flathead screw drivers and all of the hex products. The bits are of great quality, better then Wera but I have found the Festool centrotec bits are significantly better.

 

[measuredtwice]

Thank you for sharing your opinions, guys.

Comparing prices... from ToolLady.com shipping seems to start at $10..and shipping from Shop.PBTools.us starts at $14.30. Both have free shipping over $100.

One thing I do NOT like is that both companies lack a live inventory. They take your order and then tell you later that it's not in stock. Toollady apparently ships out backordered items separately at no extra charge. That's nice but I want to know up front if it is backordered, not after they take my money. According to their policies page, Shop.PBTools.us charges additional shipping if backordered items are shipped separately.

Usually I would avoid any company that lacks a live inventory. But these two companies seem to be the only USA distributors. It is what it is.

I think it's probably nice stuff but I'm not convinced that I couldn't find equally nice stuff from the US, Germany or Czech for much less money. I would like to try it when a good opportunity arises.

 

[Skin]

LOL, seriously he must of been prying a bit on the bit that broke. I only see one bent and one broke, where are the other two bent ones? I have snapped the end off a 0 flat blade PB screwdriver, but I was prying with it so of coarse it snapped. Their steel is very strong, but that also means more on the brittle side, so it's not impossible. But I sincerely believe they are the best bits I've ever used. I'm a believer.

You don't have to be prying to break bits. I use to snap slotted drivers just like that on carburetors a couple year.

 

[Dave455]

I've got plenty of PB swiss stuff, and it's very very good. Their bits and screw drivers are the longest lasting, best fitting ones around. I like their ratcheting screwdrivers also. With that said, there are couple of negative sides to PB Swiss:
1 - stuck buying from US distributors that jack the price 30%
2 - screw driver handles all seem to be 1-2 sizes smaller than most others
3 - yes their picks are brittle so don't pry on them
4 - the Santoprene is nice in your hand, but it gets dirty and isn't fun to clean
5 - personally don't like bar codes on my tools

Thoughts -

1 - That’s a crappy deal, especially as they don’t seem to keep much stock. I wonder if they are ordering from Switzerland when they get your order, which would explain the cost? That’s not really the way to go about it!

Most of the U.K. dealers have huge stocks - I saw one of their stock rooms once, and they seemed to have boxes of everything. Only Quality Tools in the U.K. will ship internationally, but postage is about $20 for one bit driver.

2 - Agreed. I have an old set of hex drivers on which the handles are perfect. I bought some newer ones for a guy I work with and the handles were smaller. Tool manufacturers seem to be obsessed with making handle sizes proportional to torque, but they forget that my hand doesn't get any smaller. Snap On understand this - below a certain size the handles on my Torx drivers don’t get smaller!

3 - I have a pick / seal puller set - mines been o.k. but I’m careful with it!

4- Also Agreed. PB seem to be really pushing these soft grips, but they are far from ideal in any sort of real workshop environment. I use either the classic handles, or the Multicraft. The smell, even on older ones, is not an issue but... mine are stored in a normal tool chest - if you seal ‘em up in a plastic box, they will whiff a bit, but no more than a Marples chisel handle!

5 - The bar codes are not permanent. They wipe off with a trace of spirit. If you prefer, you can order drivers in a card backed packet. These have the barcode on the packing.

 

[American Locomotive]

There was a member here that snapped the tip off a screwdriver the first time he used it. Maybe its a good thing I've never bought any of their stuff.

I've done that with a SnapOn screwdriver, too. It happens.

 

[Reed Prince]

I've done that with a SnapOn screwdriver, too. It happens.

SnapOff, lol.

 

[dutchgray]

I too think those straight bits must have been broken prying, one you don't get many straight screws in cars and two why would you try a smaller one after breaking the one that fitted properly.

 

[measuredtwice]

I have an order on the way

 

[KDoug]

As for bits, I have Felo, Elora, Heyco, PB Swiss, Schröder, Toptul, USAG, Wera, Wiha, Witte, and Würth. The ones that get the most use are Felo (hand) and Wiha Terminator (drill). That has more to do with the cases than the bits, though Felo bits are great. The yellow Felo case is tops; just replace PH and PZ dupes with square 0-3.

The Wiha Terminator Pocket Pack also a great compact kit to stick in a drill case, missing only slotted bits.

JBH, where did you order the Felo bit set you posted? I was looking at getting the same set for my dad for Father's Day. I've tried to go through KCTool and see if I could order through them but I've been waiting all week for them to email back, so it doesn't look like I'll order it from them. The only other place I saw it was on Amazon which I believe ships from the U.K.