Help with small engine

[Muggs63]

I bought a new Legend Force 208cc snow blower at the end of last snow season. I accidentally poured old gas in and immediately had trouble. Engine died under load. Rather than play with the carb, I ordered and installed a new one, but then it never snowed. Today we had 8 inches of snow and I have the same issue. I took apart and blew out all fuel lines and cleaned the filter at the shut off valve that sits inside the gas tank. New fuel, still stalls under load. Unit was "summerized". It has less than 5 hours of run time. Any ideas?? What are the odds I was shipped a bad carb??

Thanks for your help.

 

[FMB4]

Install the original carb. Fill with fresh fuel.

 

[four.cycle]

Welcome to the site!
Ethanol in gasoline was the best thing that ever happened to the small engine repair industry.
Today's gas is good for maybe 3-4 weeks in a small engine, and then it starts causing problems.
Drain the fuel tank. Flush the fuel line (if such exists). Clean the carburetor out.
Start over.

 

[Sherk]

Pure-gas.org - ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada

Pure-gas.org is the definitive web site listing stations that sell pure gasoline in the U.S. and Canada.

www.pure-gas.org

If you can find ethanol free gas in your area, it's well worth it. I don't use stabilizers, just 100% gas in my small engines. I turn off the fuel shutoff (added one to my snowblower because it didn't have one) and run the engine until the carb is dry. That's it for storage. Change the oil before use and prime the carb with what's in the tank and they've always fired right up for me.

 

[engineer2]

The carbs are often set up for best emissions. You might need to enlarge the jet size just a little to get it to run well in cold weather.
The gas tank vent can be too restrictive. Try running it with the gas tank cap loose to see if it still stalls.

 

[FredWanaker]

does it start and idle? Does it have a choke?

 

[mnmarlin]

Definitely swap the gas with FRESH from the station gas. I had 'old' - summer- gas in my snowblower this fall, started great when it was 35 degrees, but when the temp dropped it was a bear to start. Ran and got gallon of new - winter blend - gas and it starts great, first pull every time, even when it was -20 F.

 

[Muggs63]

I removed all fuel lines and blew them out with compressed air along with removing shut off valve and in tank filter attached to the valve and all are clean. New gas and still stalls under load. Since I did that last night I called it quits at 9pm. I believe my 20 inch Ariens blower has the same carb and ran great until auger belt broke, I'm going to swap carb and see if this fixes the problem. I'll keep you posted and thank you for your replies.

 

[four.cycle]

no fun. last Tecumseh carburetors I bought were $9 each from an ebay seller.
YMMV

 

[Ak Jim]

Ethanol in gas is one of the biggest scams in modern history. It has a huge environmental impact and does nothing to improve air quality. Back in the 70s and 80s there was some benefits but they no longer exist. Like others have said get some real gas for the small engines.

 

[kelpaso1]

Ethanol in gas is one of the biggest scams in modern history. It has a huge environmental impact and does nothing to improve air quality. Back in the 70s and 80s there was some benefits but they no longer exist. Like others have said get some real gas for the small engines.

LOL at what you say. What were the benefits you mention?

 

[marinusdees]

LOL at what you say. What were the benefits you mention?

Ethanol in gas reduced greenhouse gasses. Except, it didn't. Now, it gives corn farmers a reason for being.

 

[nadogail]

99 percent of small engine problems are fuel related. On better engines they not start if the oil is low.

 

[DGersic]

LOL at what you say. What were the benefits you mention?

It’s very popular here. I live in the middle of corn fields, in a town known for corn and barbed wire.

 

[DGersic]

I bought a new Legend Force 208cc snow blower at the end of last snow season. I accidentally poured old gas in and immediately had trouble. Engine died under load. Rather than play with the carb, I ordered and installed a new one, but then it never snowed. Today we had 8 inches of snow and I have the same issue. I took apart and blew out all fuel lines and cleaned the filter at the shut off valve that sits inside the gas tank. New fuel, still stalls under load. Unit was "summerized". It has less than 5 hours of run time. Any ideas?? What are the odds I was shipped a bad carb??

Thanks for your help.

With that little run time, I don’t think your original carb was bad. I’d clean it out with some carb cleaner and put it back on. Just having some old gas isn’t going to varnish it up.

So it starts and idles. You’ve got new gas, good spark, plenty of air. Under load, does this blower adjust the throttle? if so, did you get that put back together correctly? Does the carb have adjustment screws?

 

[Knight511]

Perhaps it isn't the fuel at all. A weak ignition system (coil) will cause the same type of issue. I had to replace the coil on my Echo SRM-230 for the same symptoms. I imagine the 230 has WAY more hours (used commercially for many years), but if fuel doesn't fix your problem, you have to look at the other 2 possibilities, spark and air. Air is easy to check (clogged filter).

 

[DenisG]

Adjust governor arm and/or linkage.

 

[nadogail]

Yes you need fuel, spark and compression to run an engine. IMHO, most small engine problems are fuel related.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Adjust governor arm and/or linkage.

NO ! The absolute last thing you want to do is adjust the governor !!!

 

[quickfarms]

Ethanol is a zero gain. The amount of energy used to produce it is equal to or more than what you get out of it. The old benefit was that the energy used to produce it was cleaner than the energy it was replacing. Factor that in with the reduced gas milage and modern cars it’s dead. The plan should be stoped and the farmers should produce food to reduce the burning of the rain forest

diesel emissions are another one of the EPA’s stupid ideas, they just need to also accept euro standard

 

[Ak Jim]

NO ! The absolute last thing you want to do is adjust the governor !!!

Maybe it’s hooked up incorrectly? Could see from my experience that you could put spring in the wrong place or the push rod in the wrong hole. Any time I take something apart I take a lot of pictures to make sure it goes back correctly.

 

[four.cycle]

YES, governor springs and linkage get hooked up incorrectly all the time.
That's the reason I created a flickr.com account and posted dozens of "carburetor-governor-linkage-spring" photographs. (you have to go to the last two pages for the lawnmower stuff.)
As theoldwizard1 notes, do not bend or attempt to "adjust" the governor on a small engine. You will never get it adjusted properly.
Just don't.

The governor isn't the problem. The problem is fuel, air, or spark.
It's not rocket science.

 

[Knight511]

That's the reason I created a flickr.com account and posted dozens of "carburetor-governor-linkage-spring" photographs. (you have to go to the last two pages for the lawnmower stuff.)
As theoldwizard1 notes, do not bend or attempt to "adjust" the governor on a small engine. You will never get it adjusted properly.
Just don't.

The pictures are a great resource! I actually need to order a new set of rods for my HRC216 because they got damaged in transit on the trailer. Once they are bent, no amount of hope, attempts, or prayer will get them right again. LoL

If the mower starts and idles, it is getting fuel. The problem is not ethanol at that point (ethanol rots rubber which is not the case here). Either the mix is too rich (bogs and stalls; lean would rev up high and then stall or die) or there is not a strong enough spark to ignite the mixture (which can also be a symptom of too rich). My SRM230 (now ~20 years old having been used on 25 or so yard a week for the first 10 years), the ONLY fuel (possibly ethanol) issue it ever had was a rotten primer bulb; actually, the only problem any of my pieces of equipment have had fuel related is the primer bulb rotting or breaking (which is likely due to age over fuel type). In my experience, the scapegoat of blaming ethanol is over stated.

 

[kelpaso1]

Adjust governor arm and/or linkage.

What poor advice. If he didn't screw with it then it doesn't "just" go out of adjustment.

 

[four.cycle]

Once they are bent, no amount of hope, attempts, or prayer will get them right again.

100% inarguably correct, sir.

"...the scapegoat of blaming ethanol is over stated...."

Real-world example:
Murray model 20213X62B with Tecumseh TVS90-43589K engine built Aug 2 2015

After assembly, engine started easily (less than one full pull of starter rope) and idled perfectly.
This was the first week of August, mind you - the driest part of the year here.
I had other things to tend to, so the mower sat in the garage for about 10 days. A prospective buyer drove over to take a look at it. I pushed it out of the garage onto the sidewalk, where it began to pour gasoline all over the mower deck and the sidewalk. I ran into the garage, grabbed a pair of Vise-Grips (6LN) and clamped the line shut.
Fortunately I had a couple other mowers already built and ready to go, so the customer didn't leave empty-handed.
After he left I called Bob. Bob owns one of the local lawnmower shops. I've been dealing with Bob since the 1980s.
I described the problem. He said "Needle and seat."
I said "Bob, I just bought the repair kit from you."
"Needle and seat. How long has it been sitting?"
"About 10 days."
"Ethanol."
"You're kiddin' me."
"Dump the fuel, put some new gas in it. Replace the needle and seat."
I did as instructed.
Sold the mower two days later.

Again: Ethanol is the best thing that ever happened to the small engine repair industry.

 

[rd65]

When it bogs and dies can you add some choke? That should tell you if problem is rich or lean condition.
Personally I dont buy ethanol free fuel for my yard equipment. Have yet to have a problem with any of it. I DO put stabil in with the last fuel of the season. I have not had a problem with my riding mower/briggs, stihl trimmer & blower. My push mower/?? has been a bit hard to start the last couple of years for the first run of the season but otherwise all have been fine running ethanol fuel. Wester Wa ethanol fuel that is. We dont have any of the fancy E85 stuff that I have ever seen around here.

 

[four.cycle]

^ You're one of the lucky ones.

My buddy moved up here from Marin County in 1989 and bought a house on two-and-a-half acres.
First thing he did was drive down to Agri-Shop and buy a brand new John Deere riding lawnmower and a cheapie Murray walk-behind with a little Briggs & Stratton on it.
He has never changed the oil or the spark plug on the Murray. He's never drained the fuel tank. He parks it in the garage all winter.
He buys regular ol' pump gas.
The Murray starts up on the first pull every spring.



YMMV

 

[Racer_X]

If you can find ethanol free gas in your area, it's well worth it.

Find real gas in your area

 

[FredWanaker]

Muggs63, how about an update? Did manipulating the choke change the behavior?

 

[Bent Handle]

Could be a bad plug or tank vent. If you crack the cap when running that will rule out the tank vent.

 

[Knight511]

100% inarguably correct, sir.



Real-world example:
Murray model 20213X62B with Tecumseh TVS90-43589K engine built Aug 2 2015

...

Again: Ethanol is the best thing that ever happened to the small engine repair industry.

If ethanol caused the failure of a needle and seat in 10 days, none of my equipment would ever run. The issue described above sounds like the float sticking open as a needle leaking without the open float would not pour gas out as described, it would leak slowly. A stuck float pours gas out. In that case, opening the carb, replacing the fuel, needle, and seat would have also unstuck the float. :-( I have had stuck floats on several mowers in the past which were all fixed by disassembly and a shot of carb cleaner (nothing needed with the needle or seat).

Major engine damage from higher ethanol blends (maybe as low as E15, definitely E85) results from the engine running lean, pre-detonating, and then suffering catastrophic engine failure (broken rings or pistons). None of this is new though and well documented in automobile tuning as well. Using higher ethanol blends requires more fuel being put into the cylinders to eliminate the lean condition.

"Real" gas is not available in MANY places, so pushing the fear of ethanol means buying canned gas at big box stores. TruFuel is $23.24 a gallon locally. I think pushing the fear of E10 does make $ for people in the business. $23.24 per gallon would cost me $104.55 (discount for buying 4 or more cans of the ****) to fill up my mower just once with "real" gas.

 

[Alchase]

Before you spend money on new carbs, take the existing carburetor off and check the jets, they are probably clogged. It does not take much debris to clog the jets. It is a really easy fix. Google YouTube videos for cleaning your carburetor,
If you don’t have a set of carb cleaner wires and brushes, they are really inexpensive and available through Amazon cheap. Or you can use a piece of speaker wire with the coating stripped off.
Run the wire through each hole in the jets. You will be able to tell when clogged. Clean the carb, air cleaner, and hoses. And use new gas (preferably no-ethanol).
9 times out of 10 this will get you running again.
If not, carbs are cheap, replace the carb.

Seriously though a good clean usually does the job.

 

[four.cycle]

"If ethanol caused..."

All I can tell you is what happened.
Gas engines are odd things. Sometimes you just never know what's going to happen.
I have overhauled hundreds of lawnmowers. I've sold hundreds and hundreds of automotive engines.
That little incident happened to that little Murray exactly as described.
You are free to accept it at face value, or not, as you so choose. Makes no difference here.
There was nothing in any part of what I posted that had anything to do with "fear of ethanol". Nothing.
I have no agenda to push regarding what sort of fuel you wish to use. Doesn't matter to me at all.
I love ethanol - it's good for business.

 

[finn]

Ethanol is a zero gain. The amount of energy used to produce it is equal to or more than what you get out of it. The old benefit was that the energy used to produce it was cleaner than the energy it was replacing. Factor that in with the reduced gas milage and modern cars it’s dead. The plan should be stoped and the farmers should produce food to reduce the burning of the rain forest

diesel emissions are another one of the EPA’s stupid ideas, they just need to also accept euro standard

The energy argument is false, and European Diesel emissions standards are almost identical to ours. Search “Emissions Harmonization” for more information.

 

[exmaxima1]

What poor advice. If he didn't screw with it then it doesn't "just" go out of adjustment.

The OP changed the carb. What are the chances it is EXACTLY the same model carb as the oem? If not, the linkage will not be perfect for an aftermarket carb.

I adjusted the linkage on numerous Toro 2-cycle snowblowers (you simply squeeze or open the loop) and it fixes surging. Not hard at all. Not sure what is on the OP's blower, but if he changed the carb he should acknowledge that the factory settings are no longer valid.

 

[2110 speedster]

Unless you buy an OEM carb from the model,type and serial# you will probably have problems. Governors can be properly adjusted back to factory specs. Some machines that have a fixed speed don't have a idle circuit. If it has this circuit the carb must be soaked in a commercial carb. cleaner. I have seen a build up of varnish and or green film in the main jet. Through trial and error try to figure out the original main jet size and enlarge it 1/2 to 1-thousandth of an inch back to the original size. You can use a pin vise and pin drills for this. Ethanol fuel seems to attract moisture causing corrosion, this may ruin the carb. casting. I have seen many new Chinese (EBay) carbs. not work properly, wrong jet size, wrong venturi size etc.

 

[FredWanaker]

The OP is MIA

 

[four.cycle]

He probably got the machine running by now and has no use for the superfluous palaver.

 

[laser3kw]

superfluous palaver.

WTH?
I just imagine daffy duck saying that with copious slobber

 

[Muggs63]

Sorry for not posting, life got in the way and I had to put off working on it until yesterday. I tore down the OEM carb and cleaned it. The screen behind the fuel inlet fitting was gummed up with the sludge I poured in the tank like an idiot. I didn't know there was a screen in there.
Put back together and was throwing rock hard snow like it was powder.

Just for sh*ts and giggles, I torn down the garage Chinese carb I bought as a replacement and everything was clean. Just junk and is in the recycling bin!!

Thanks for all your help. I got rusty on my small engine skills but this thread
certainly got me back on track!!