I’m having some trouble with our submersible well pump that supplies our home with water. The pump runs continuously and never builds up enough pressure to meet the cut off on the pressure switch. When I turn the pump off using the breaker, it does hold pressure steady overnight, so I suspect either a pump problem or a leak in the drop pipe between the pump and check valve. Our next step is to pull the pump. When we bought our house, we spoke with the person that drilled our well in 1996 and he told us his records indicated our well was 140 feet deep and I’m fairly sure that black polyethylene drop pipe is used. The well casing is 6”. Conservatively, I figure the whole drop pipe and pump setup, full of water, will weigh maybe 150 pounds. I actually figured about 100 pounds or so, but I’m sure it would end up being a bit more than that. I was thinking I’d build a tripod and use a come-along to lift the drop-pipe by alternating some homemade wooden clamps to grip the pipe and rest across the top of the well casing. Clamp the pipe, use the come along to lift it maybe 5 feet, put another clamp on the pipe and rest it across the well casing. Then just alternate the clamps back and forth pulling the drop pipe up 5 feet at a time until it’s light enough to pull the rest of the way up by hand. I’m just not sure if I’m over complicating the job. I’ve searched around online and have heard that some people just pull similar setups by hand. I’d have a friend and my wife available to help, so I won’t be working alone. I’d really appreciate hearing from anyone that’s actually done this sort of work themselves. Should I rig up some lifting equipment for the job or is just lifting it by hand for two average guys reasonable?
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Help with submersible well pump?
- Thread starter tube_guy
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Wastedwagesracing
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I have had that trouble a few times. Twice it was a hole in the pipe (steel) right at the water line. Once it was a hole in the elbow on the outside of the pitless adapter going to the house. It never happens at a opportune time when I can do the repair. But I was just going to use my loader tractor to pull it and get a holding block from below.
EDIT: Your well might be 140 feet deep, but that does not mean the pump is that deep.
http://www.do-it-yourself-pumps.com/pipe-tools.htm
EDIT: Your well might be 140 feet deep, but that does not mean the pump is that deep.
http://www.do-it-yourself-pumps.com/pipe-tools.htm
Thanks for the reply and the web site with tools. So you were going to use the bucket on your loader tractor to lift the pipe incrementally and then rig up a holding block to hold the pipe while you repositioned the bucket? How far down was your pump? I had figured worst case scenario, our pump is 135 feet down, 5 feet off the bottom of the well. Hopefully it's less than that, but I won't know until I pull it up.
Crusty Nut
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I just went through this. I have a 9 inch casing with 120 feet of drop pipe. 2 men pulled it easily. Just clear a path 120 feet in a straightish line from the well and one or two guys pull and another just walks the pipe along the ground. Poly pipe isn't the best for drop pipe. My well company set me up with a flexible PVC type pipe made for drop pipe and metal couplers between 20 foot sections.
Wastedwagesracing
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Thanks for the reply and the web site with tools. So you were going to use the bucket on your loader tractor to lift the pipe incrementally and then rig up a holding block to hold the pipe while you repositioned the bucket? How far down was your pump? I had figured worst case scenario, our pump is 135 feet down, 5 feet off the bottom of the well. Hopefully it's less than that, but I won't know until I pull it up.
My pump is set at 80 feet and my well is 120ish. But
I have it on schedule 80 Galvanized pipe not plastic.
Keithinsc
Well-known member
Do you have a pump tank attached in the line somewhere? My pump was running 100% while I has drawing water, never meeting the cutoff pressure. Once I replaced the pump tank (expansion tank), the pump would cycle on and off while I was drawing water. Set points were 50 psi ON, 65 psi OFF.
Turns out the pump tank had a pinhole in the bladder, so there was no 'cushion' on the pressure spikes.
Good luck. Pulling up the line isn't tricky. Pulled mine up using the truck and some guiding hands.
Turns out the pump tank had a pinhole in the bladder, so there was no 'cushion' on the pressure spikes.
Good luck. Pulling up the line isn't tricky. Pulled mine up using the truck and some guiding hands.
schwalby
Well-known member
I worked for a well pump / water filter company for a few years and pretty much every pump we pulled I pulled by hand. Oddly enough the boss was always off quoting another job or something when we had to do a pull. But anyways around here the pumps can be down several hundred feet and they are not too bad. We used something like the Drop Pipe vise in the link but it was home made. They were a set of C locking clamps with a piece of threaded coupling welded to each side. The coupling was obviously cut in have and then a couple of scrap pieces of rebar were welded on the outside section of the vice to make it long enough to sit across the top of the well casing.
Where are you located?
Where are you located?
CrustyNut, I'm not completely certain of the drop pipe that's used. All I really know for sure is that a flexible black hose is run from the well to the house. I just assumed the drop pipe was a flexible poly pipe, but I'm not sure about that. I probably won't know for sure until I try to pull it up.
KeithinSC, yes, we have a pump tank. 30 PSI on 50 PSI off. Pump pressure builds to about 35 to 40 PSI and then just sits there, even if the pump runs for hours straight or longer and there's no water draw at all.
Schwalby, I'm located in Rhode Island.
KeithinSC, yes, we have a pump tank. 30 PSI on 50 PSI off. Pump pressure builds to about 35 to 40 PSI and then just sits there, even if the pump runs for hours straight or longer and there's no water draw at all.
Schwalby, I'm located in Rhode Island.
Keithinsc
Well-known member
KeithinSC, yes, we have a pump tank. 30 PSI on 50 PSI off. Pump pressure builds to about 35 to 40 PSI and then just sits there, even if the pump runs for hours straight or longer and there's no water draw at all.
QUOTE]
Double check that you have air pressure on the tank. Should be a regular air fitting on the bottom. Grab your air gauge and a bicycle pump.
Before you gauge it, depress the air valve with a pencil or something. It should only be air. If water squirts out, your bladder has failed and a new pump tank is needed. If it is dry, pump up to about 50 psi air. This will restore the 'cushion' and might fix your pump cycling. Easy to check, easy to fix I hope! I'd try that first before I pulled the pump.
Keep us posted.
schwalby
Well-known member
Double check that you have air pressure on the tank. Should be a regular air fitting on the bottom.
Some tanks have the air fitting on the top. May be covered with a large blue or red plastic cap.
Milton Shaw
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If its the original pump, be prepared to replace it. That long in water even the stainless steel will have some corrosion on it. Same goes for the drop pipe and wire. It's one of those things that is probably going to need to be done or you will be pulling it again next year.
One question for you guys, because maybe I don’t understand. Why would the air pre-charge on the tank cause the behavior that I'm seeing? Our pump will run continuously for 24 hours straight and never build up pressure past 35 PSI even when the supply from the tank is shut off completely with a ball valve. If the pump is actually pumping water, that’s a heck of a lot of water to be going somewhere and I don’t notice. Unless it’s back into the well.
If the air bladder leaks, and the tank is water logged, that means there’s effectively no tank. When the system is at rest with no demand for water, I would think the system will be at the cut off pressure, roughly. When there is a demand for water, since there’s effectively no tank, the pressure in the system would drop very quickly causing the pump to turn on. When the pump turns on and the demand for water is finally satisfied the pressure would build very quickly, and the pump would turn off. So this would seem to cause a rapid cycling of the pump even with very small demands for water. Every time a faucet is turned on, the well pump would turn on as well to satisfy the drop in pressure.
If the tank has lost its pre-charge completely, I would think that means that the tank is effectively smaller than it really is because the bladder will not force all of the water out before the cut in pressure is reached. This would also cause a more frequent cycling of the pump.
So to me, because the pressure never builds up to the cut off pressure, that eliminates a tank problem. Assuming that I didn’t catch the problem right when it first started. I mean, sure, there could be this fairly short transient period where there’s a hole in the air bladder and water is currently leaking through the hole and water logging the tank on the air side of the bladder. But I have no idea how long this problem has been going on. I’m sure our pump was running for a few weeks continuously before I caught the problem.
This well tank actually does not supply our house directly. It supplies a well water radon removal system which has a separate tank and separate pump. That separate tank and separate pump is what directly supplies water to our house. So we’d never see or feel the drop in pressure directly from the well pump. The radon removal system is what sees the pressure drop. It’s not aerating the water like it should be, which was my first tipoff that there was a problem. And the gauge on the well tank confirmed what I heard in the radon removal system. I haven’t checked the gauge for accuracy, by the way, but the pressure switch contacts remain closed too and I did replace that switch maybe two years ago.
If the air bladder leaks, and the tank is water logged, that means there’s effectively no tank. When the system is at rest with no demand for water, I would think the system will be at the cut off pressure, roughly. When there is a demand for water, since there’s effectively no tank, the pressure in the system would drop very quickly causing the pump to turn on. When the pump turns on and the demand for water is finally satisfied the pressure would build very quickly, and the pump would turn off. So this would seem to cause a rapid cycling of the pump even with very small demands for water. Every time a faucet is turned on, the well pump would turn on as well to satisfy the drop in pressure.
If the tank has lost its pre-charge completely, I would think that means that the tank is effectively smaller than it really is because the bladder will not force all of the water out before the cut in pressure is reached. This would also cause a more frequent cycling of the pump.
So to me, because the pressure never builds up to the cut off pressure, that eliminates a tank problem. Assuming that I didn’t catch the problem right when it first started. I mean, sure, there could be this fairly short transient period where there’s a hole in the air bladder and water is currently leaking through the hole and water logging the tank on the air side of the bladder. But I have no idea how long this problem has been going on. I’m sure our pump was running for a few weeks continuously before I caught the problem.
This well tank actually does not supply our house directly. It supplies a well water radon removal system which has a separate tank and separate pump. That separate tank and separate pump is what directly supplies water to our house. So we’d never see or feel the drop in pressure directly from the well pump. The radon removal system is what sees the pressure drop. It’s not aerating the water like it should be, which was my first tipoff that there was a problem. And the gauge on the well tank confirmed what I heard in the radon removal system. I haven’t checked the gauge for accuracy, by the way, but the pressure switch contacts remain closed too and I did replace that switch maybe two years ago.
Last edited:
If its the original pump, be prepared to replace it. That long in water even the stainless steel will have some corrosion on it. Same goes for the drop pipe and wire. It's one of those things that is probably going to need to be done or you will be pulling it again next year.
That sounds like really good advice. Thank you! I was planning on replacing the pump but probably not the pipe and wiring.
Wastedwagesracing
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One question for you guys, because maybe I don’t understand. Why would the air pre-charge on the tank cause the behavior that I'm seeing? Our pump will run continuously for 24 hours straight and never build up pressure past 35 PSI even when the supply from the tank is shut off completely with a ball valve. If the pump is actually pumping water, that’s a heck of a lot of water to be going somewhere and I don’t notice. Unless it’s back into the well.
If the air bladder leaks, and the tank is water logged, that means there’s effectively no tank. When the system is at rest with no demand for water, I would think the system will be at the cut off pressure, roughly. When there is a demand for water, since there’s effectively no tank, the pressure in the system would drop very quickly causing the pump to turn on. When the pump turns on and the demand for water is finally satisfied the pressure would build very quickly, and the pump would turn off. So this would seem to cause a rapid cycling of the pump even with very small demands for water. Every time a faucet is turned on, the well pump would turn on as well to satisfy the drop in pressure.
If the tank has lost its pre-charge completely, I would think that means that the tank is effectively smaller than it really is because the bladder will not force all of the water out before the cut in pressure is reached. This would also cause a more frequent cycling of the pump.
So to me, because the pressure never builds up to the cut off pressure, that eliminates a tank problem. Assuming that I didn’t catch the problem right when it first started. I mean, sure, there could be this fairly short transient period where there’s a hole in the air bladder and water is currently leaking through the hole and water logging the tank on the air side of the bladder. But I have no idea how long this problem has been going on. I’m sure our pump was running for a few weeks continuously before I caught the problem.
This well tank actually does not supply our house directly. It supplies a well water radon removal system which has a separate tank and separate pump. That separate tank and separate pump is what directly supplies water to our house. So we’d never see or feel the drop in pressure directly from the well pump. The radon removal system is what sees the pressure drop. It’s not aerating the water like it should be, which was my first tipoff that there was a problem. And the gauge on the well tank confirmed what I heard in the radon removal system. I haven’t checked the gauge for accuracy, by the way, but the pressure switch contacts remain closed too and I did replace that switch maybe two years ago.
Pressure is the resistance to flow. The tank is not your problem unless it's leaking water.
MScott
Well-known member
I recently pulled my pump for replacement using my ATV and a helper to keep it from kinking at the well top. The well is 213 ft and the pump is about 200 ft. down. I just tied it to the front bumper and backed up slowly with the helper keeping the hose free.
Except for untaping the electrical lines and re-taping them when replacing the pump there were no hitches.
Except for untaping the electrical lines and re-taping them when replacing the pump there were no hitches.
Andamo
Well-known member
If you're going to all the trouble to pull and possibly replace the pump, for just a few dollars more consider replacing the pipe, clamps and wiring. The costs will be minimal and the peace of mind knowing it's all new will be worth it.
Rich720
Active member
I am going to vote for a bad pump impeller. Sounds like time for a new pump. Just happened to me a few months back, pump ran constantly, but would only occasionally build enough pressure to kick off. I noticed it when my electric bill doubled!
rkevins
Well-known member
we have a pump at 200' with a 1 1/2 hp pump we use a empty wire spool on a home made rack and eather a 4 wheeeler or the tractor hook a rope or cable around the fitting on the top of the pipe and drive out slow, also as mentioned above check the air pressure in your tank a busted bladder will cause a lot of problems and it's a lot easer and faster than pulling the pump, also make sure your pressure switch points are not stuck togather.
davedriveschevys
Well-known member
The problem is somewhere before the check valve.
A hole in the pipe.
Malfunctioning or broken pit-less adapter. ( common where there is deep frost )
Faulty pump.
A hole in the pipe.
Malfunctioning or broken pit-less adapter. ( common where there is deep frost )
Faulty pump.
stingry
Well-known member
I’m having some trouble with our submersible well pump that supplies our home with water. The pump runs continuously and never builds up enough pressure to meet the cut off on the pressure switch. When I turn the pump off using the breaker, it does hold pressure steady overnight, so I suspect either a pump problem or a leak in the drop pipe between the pump and check valve.
This pretty much indicates that your pump is worn and needs replaced. If it flexible poly pipe, you can pull it by hand. If it is rigid pvc or galvanized, it will be more complicated.
Good Luck
Steve
We pulled up our well pump yesterday. I didn't really know for sure how deep our well was because the well driller didn't seem too confident in the depths he was telling us. I was prepared for a heavy lift. I had the 14 foot tall tripod ready to go. I made some pipe elevator clamps out of wood. Oh well, I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. It turns out our pump is set about 90 feet down and it wasn't a bad lift at all. When we got the pump up, it was clearly all calcified and the threaded discharge on top of the pump was cracked a bit. We installed a new pump, some new wire, and some new adapters and we're back up and running now. Thank you for all of your replies!